bypass to full flow conversion?

[Merle Coggins]

sorry to burst your bubble, but black oil is a bad thing. remember the acids previously noted? the main reason i know about this is from doing work on an engine that was run with dirty oil for years. it causes deposits and coking that will slowly plug the orifices for lubrication, thus starving the engine of oil. water wont hurt anything if its just sitting on the bottom, but when it is on a surface with air, it will rot. if it is submerged under oil, then it will not get air, thus not harming anything.

I believe what Greg was trying to convey is that just because oil is discolored doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad. Oil will become darker as it picks up and suspends soot particals from normal combustion blowby. In your case the oil had suspended as much contamination as it could and probably had any additives broken down long ago. In that case, yes, the oil was bad and couldn't protect the engine from corrosion any longer. The only true way to know what condition your oil is in is to send a sample into a oil testing lab. They can put it through a series of test and tell you exactly what's in it and if it's still good or not. This is something that we do on a regular basis at my job. An oil test sample will cost anywhere from $15 - $30 depending on who is doing it. Most major oil suppliers will have access to a testing lab.

Merle

[Merle Coggins]

Wellllll SHUCKS...thank goodness I don't drive either of my Pilot-Houses very much, cuz it looks like the Wix 51010 does nothing but sit in an oil bath for the bypass filter housings I have as the upper & lower IDs are the same. The 51011 appears to be what I need to have been using all these years....

The only way to know which element should be in your filter canister is to know who made the filter and which element they specify.

As I said, mine happened to be clearly marked what it was and what element to use. Maybe all filter housings aren't as clearly marked, but a little research should net the answers you need.

On my Deluxe filter canister the oil enters from the bottom into the center tube. there are a couple of holes cross drilled into the tube about half way up. The oil will then migrate through the filter element media until it can get up to the top of the canister. Under the cover is a perforated dome that holds down against the top of the sock filter element. Above the dome is the return port, where the oil can exit the filter and return to the oil pan. If I put one of the little paper media can type elements in there it wouldn't fit and seal properly around the center tube which would allow oil to completely bypass the filter. That would give me a bypass filter bypass.

Or you could just get one of these Engine Oil Bypass kits and your oil will never get dirty.

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8

EDIT: By the way... My truck had 47000+ miles on it when I got it and from what I could tell it never had a filter. The engine needed to be rebuilt because all 6 pistons and all 12 valves were stuck tighter than tight from moisture ingress while parked. When I disassembled it the bottom end was still in remarkably good condition. It's possible that it was rebuilt sometime during it's life, but I could see no evidence of that. The block numbers appear to match what they should be for this truck and the cylinders hadn't been bored yet.

Merle

Edited June 9, 2010 by Merle Coggins

[greg g]

From another site, most outomotive oil pumps flow 5 to 9 gallons per minute. Thats without the restriction posed by the ports and passages. But even if it flow only a gallon per minute, to filter all of it though the bypass filter would take apx 4 minutes to for all the oil pass through the filter.

[Merle Coggins]

From another site, most outomotive oil pumps flow 5 to 9 gallons per minute. Thats without the restriction posed by the ports and passages. But even if it flow only a gallon per minute, to filter all of it though the bypass filter would take apx 4 minutes to for all the oil pass through the filter.

Interesting info Greg, however, the "restrictions posed by the ports and passages" won't limit the flow. The restrictions are what creates the pressure. A gear pump has a fixed displacement and will pump the same amount of fluid per revolution regardless of the pressure imposed on it, unless it is severly worn and has a great deal of internal leakage. But that would cause other issues.

So based on that info, if I pick a middle number and say it's pumping 6 gpm, and even if the bypass filter gets 20% of the oil (getting more conservative from your 30%), That would be 1.2 gallons per minute through the filter. Since the engine holds 1.25 gallons of oil, I'd say that theres a good chance that all of the oil could be filtered every minute. But that's all theory. The only way to know exactly how much oil is flowing through the filter would be to install a flow meter and measure it.

Merle

[greg g]

One other thing to keep in mind the Bypass in the Bypass system it not the engine but the filter. The bypass vale is there in case the flow through the filter is restricted or blocked. In this case the loop through the engine is maintained. As the flow of oil is directed around the filter.

Conversly the full flow does ( or did not for a while) have this protection. If the filter became restricted or blocked the oil did not flow to the engine.

So which would you rather do have an engine that runs on dirty unfiltered oil, or an engine forced to run on littl or no oil????

[Don Coatney]

One other thing to keep in mind the Bypass in the Bypass system it not the engine but the filter. The bypass vale is there in case the flow through the filter is restricted or blocked. In this case the loop through the engine is maintained. As the flow of oil is directed around the filter.

Conversly the full flow does ( or did not for a while) have this protection. If the filter became restricted or blocked the oil did not flow to the engine.

So which would you rather do have an engine that runs on dirty unfiltered oil, or an engine forced to run on littl or no oil????

My full flow filter has this safety device.

[wallytoo]

Don't mean to offend any body, but whan as the last time you changed the oil in you unfiltered lawn mower? It probably gets more work, works in a dirtier envionment with less regard to its lubricants.

changed it last fall, after the final mow.

changed the snowblower's oil this spring, after moving it to the shed.

fwiw, i drive my old truck on dirt/gravel roads 50% of the yearly mileage i put on it. change the oil in the late fall.

[greg g]

Ya know, there's always this one guy...........that one exception that proves the rule.

Souds like you got your stuff together.

[HanksB3B]

Sounds like the filter I bought on the bay:eek: I can still smell it.

I thought it was illegal to ship something like that thru the mail. Suprised Homeland Security didn't show up at your doorstep.

Funny how smell-memory lasts for decades. I can still remember this nasty glue I used to assemble a plastic model of a Nuclear Reactor when I was 12.

(now I'll probably have Homeland Security at my door as they probably scan forums for "key-words)

Hank

P.S. (I think it was the glue)

[Dave72dt]

Can you imagine how much more that filter might have sold for if the owner had spent a little time cleasning it up?

[Young Ed]

Greg I change the oil in my lawn mower and snowblower once a season too. Also check the plug and filter etc. I think you're looking in the wrong place for people who dont take care of their equipment. I normally change the oil in my old cars once a season but with how much I've driven the 48 already this year I may have to do it once in the middle of the season.

[wallytoo]

Ya know, there's always this one guy...........that one exception that proves the rule.

Souds like you got your stuff together.

nah. i'm a cheap s-o-b. i only want to buy stuff once, so i maintain what i do buy. my lawnmower was purchased new in 1998. i keep the blade sharp and the air filter clean, too.

the snowblower was a freebie "throw-in" from a craigslist purchase 3 years ago, wasn't running. i cleaned the carb and got it running. i've spent about $40 on it, and it works fine (it's a 1974 toro). i spray it down with wd-40 after EVERY use during the winter, to minimize corrosion to the sheet metal and other exterior parts.

every one of my vehicles has over 100K (2 have more than 200K) on it. they run, they're safe, they're reasonably reliable. why get rid of them?

[grey beard]

If you are a regular reader of this forum, you may have read this rant before. I have a strong belief that the largest majority of our flathead lubrication problems come from engines running too COLD. I have read countless threads on these forums from guys who say they started up their ride and let it warm up for ten minutes, then shut it down again.

Our MoPar flathead blocks - even my small 218 - weighs in around 750 pounds. Now folks, that's almost 250 pounds MORE than a belly button - read Chebby small block - V8. Because of their mass and their in-line configuration, it tales quite a while for the entire block to warm up. Who cares about this? You, if you want your engine to stay clean.

I have pulled several of these flatties apart in the last rive years. Every one of them had lots of caked uo sludge and coke in the valve chambers. This may have been from lousy oil, or poor maintenance or a combination of other stuff, but it speaks volumes about how these engines respond to lots of use.

When you start up a cold engine and let it run till the dash temp gauge reads normal, the oil sump is likely still room temperature. It takes some hard work - or a lot of time - to get these engines up to a temperature where they are warm enough to evaporate condensation from the cranikcase. Period.

Here's a simple quick-and-dirty test ror any unbelievers among us. Run your engine till you think it's warm, then put your hand on top of the oil filter. If it's just warm, you're only half way there. If you had a lazer thermometer and shot the oil pan, you'd find it is still only luke warm. When the oil is up to operating temperature, you will not be able to keep your hand on the top of the frilter very long.

Oil must reach nearly 200 degrees F beforee condensation will evaporate. Unless you have a PCV system - I have one on mine - and you are relying on the old road draft tube to evacuate the crankcase, this condensation builds up inside the block. Since it is heavier than oil, it lays on the bottom and creates sludge.

Here's how to fight this problem. First, eliminate short runs. Only start your ride up if you are going to keep it going for thirty minutes or more. This is hard to do with old vehicles, but you can do it if you try.

Install a 180 degree stat. Those old 160's were made for alcohol based antifrreeze and have no place in any vehicles today. Get it warm as quickly as you can, and keep it warm. It will live longer and stay cleaner.

Finally, find or build a PCV system. They're simlicity, itself. This combination will help keep your old heavy flathead cleaner longer than any oil you can buy.

Oh, by the way, those bypass oil filters only operate when the oil pressure is not too high or too low - only part of the time, because the pressure regulator shuts off the flow on wide open throttle and low oil pressure situations, so all that gallons-per-minute math may need a few weasel words in the equation. LOL

Good Luck

[JBNeal]

Getting the engine to heat up faster has had me thinkin'bout finding a way to restrict air flow through the radiator fins in a controlled manner. Something similar in effect as winter grill covers on diesel trucks, but with a cable control to open & close a collar damper. I'm still doin' some figgerin' on how to do this, but this is part of the contraption I'm conjurin' up:

[41/53dodges]

they used to have something like that on tractors, they were called radiator shutters

[1949dakota]

ok , I'm wading through this post because I too would like a spin on filter, no good reason I just want it. why can't I just add it to my bypass system without converting it to full flow? Will it not work? one line in, one line out, filter in the middle? Maybe this was covered but I don't see it. oh yea i have a 1953 218ci INDUSTRIAL 5A in a 49' B1D126 does anyone know the HP.rating for this engine?

[Young Ed]

The problem as I see it is you are getting the worst of both worlds that way. The benefit of a full flow is that it filters 100% of the oil but through a courser filter. The bypass doesn't filter all the oil each time it goes through the system but it filters it through a finer filter. Your plan will get you only some of the oil filtered each time through and then through a courser filter.

[1949dakota]

ok looks like I'm sticking to the "drop in" 1080:), any hits on my ? about HP. rating on a 1953 218ci INDUSTRIAL 5A

[Merle Coggins]

There are spin-on bpass filters too, so it could be converted. Amsoil sells kits to add a bypass filter to many applications. I'm sure theirs could be used in place of your old filter.

Merle

[Young Ed]

Oh thats good info Merle I wasn't aware of that. Then you could keep the good filter rating and have a little less mess at oil change time.

[1949dakota]

amsoil kit @ $191.00 = 19 - 1080 drop ins:) I'll get messy , thanks for changing my mind.

[HanksB3B]

amsoil kit @ $191.00 = 19 - 1080 drop ins:) I'll get messy , thanks for changing my mind.

Now that I know what one is, I can't wait to tell my Amsoil Dealer "I already have a "By-Pass" oil filter.

As for me and my Pilot-House.. "Socks Rule"!

Hank

[kencombs]

There are spin on type bypass cartridges available.  I have a Mitsubishi truck with a turbo 4 that has a normal full flow filter as well as a factory installed bypass cartridge.  All the oil that goes from the pump to the bearings goes through the full flow.  all excess to bearing needs is routed by the oil pressure regulator to the bypass filter.  Oil/filter changes are expensive!

 

I think bypass cartridge for that application would fit the remote adapters.  I'll check at next oil change.

 

But, if I can make it work, I'd much rather just have a real full flow adaptation to my '56.  Maybe one of these days.