Paint Finish ?

[old rat 49]

Opinions please on shine/finish. The old enamels didn't shine the way the new clear coats do. Should a less glossy finish be more correct and how do you achieve that ? mine will not be a restoration or a show car.

[michael.warshaw]

i love the shiny car look, but if you want to keep it on the dull side, they make clear coats that are not shiny they are kind of matte finish.

[Frank Elder]

Super shine is a basecoat[the color you choose]then multiple clear coats for that new car shine. On your car only a base coat was shot at the factory so it wasn't as brilliant as car paint is now.

Plus, you will get fading without a clear coat unless you rarely drive it and it is always garaged.

[old rat 49]

I'm thinking along the line of the "one shot" paint that doesn't use a clear coat.

[Joe Flanagan]

I always liked the dull sheen on the old cars. Kind of like the surface of a billiard ball. That was the finish I originally intended for my 49 Plymouth, but once I got into planning the paint job and buying the materials, I just went with a base coat/clear coat system, more interested in getting it painted and protected that aesthetics. I was shocked at how glossy the finish turned out. I hadn't meant to make it THAT nice. I'm pleased in a way, but I already feel like I'll be afraid to drive it. The way I look at it, the sheen will fade. It will get dirty and seem more like a driver. I've heard the clear coat gives excellent protection against the elements and particularly UV light. I believe single stage paints will give you a very nice finish too, but you should ask Dezeldoc this question since he's got a lot of experience with this.

[PatrickG]

They do still make basecoat only (single stage) paint systems in the modern type of paint that would give you that "less" shiny look I think, and have the UV protection that the clear coat normally provides. I think this is because they mix clear in with the base coat but someone may correct me on this. You should be able to talk to your local automotive paint supply about the different single stage paints they offer. I'm pretty sure some big brands like ppg and nason offer single stage paint.

Edited May 18, 2010 by PatrickG
forgot to add some details

[Joe Flanagan]

Yes, there are single stage paints that require no mixing and are shot, as the name implies, in a single stage. As I understand it, it is both the base and the clear in the same paint. Kind of like rattle can paint. I believe some of them are considered to be very good, too.

[Plymouthy Adams]

they are more old cars of the 40's and 50's with original paint and shine compared to late models running around with the clear coat peeling off and the non-sealing base coat allowing substrate oxidation..base coat/clear coat is a fast and easy method high gloss finish that look good on new cars and designed for the body shops to be able to do panel repair without overall paint jobs to match the finish should it be invovled in an accident..

[BobT-47P15]

Mine has acrylic enamel with hardner added. One stage paint.

[greg g]

Depends on what your are going to do with the car. When I first showed mine at a POC event I had points deducted because it was too shiey. The jusges insisted that it was base coat clear coat there fore not correct. When I proved to them is was single stage paint with no clear they still said it was to shiney. So I don't have it judged at POC meets ay more.

Most paint, even clear coat needs to be buffed to achieve its final finish, unless you want a mat or suede finish most reflectivity can be controlled through this end process.

Needless to say mine is no longer after 8 year this shiney but it still looks prety darn good.

[Plymouthy Adams]

alkalyd enamels compared to acrylic enamels..the acrylic enamel is a very nice deeper gloss..the alkalyd can acheive a good gloss but with only lots and lots of effort and once it is prepped to that high state..it decays fast due to the alkayd base and it "chalking" effect..therefore the original shine of these cars while nice is less than that of acrylic..even later when acrylic was the paint to use alkayld was used to "spot" in any repairs due to its heavy pigments and buffing qualities..

[Joe Flanagan]

they are more old cars of the 40's and 50's with original paint and shine compared to late models running around with the clear coat peeling off and the non-sealing base coat allowing substrate oxidation..base coat/clear coat is a fast and easy method high gloss finish that look good on new cars and designed for the body shops to be able to do panel repair without overall paint jobs to match the finish should it be invovled in an accident..

Tim,

I know I don't have a lot of experience with this but I read your post to mean that clear coat has a tendency to peel off and that base coat has a tendency to permit rust beneath. Wouldn't this depend on the quality of the materials and the way they were applied? I don't find anything easy about the base coat/clear coat method (you may laugh and say, "That's because you are a rookie!"). The way I was instructed to paint my car, I laid down epoxy primer on the bare metal, which is intended to seal it. The metal itself is sandblasted and treated with a phosphoric acid solution. There is a primer/surfacer on top of the epoxy, and on top of that is the color. If the base coat/clear coat system is an inferior way to paint your car, then I have been thoroughly hoodwinked.

[Plymouthy Adams]

only when its has delaminated Joe...

[kencombs]

Is what you want. Or a good quality Acrylic enamel w/hardener.

Either will more closely approximate the original finish than will clear coat. But, will still be somewhat shinier.

The urethane is harder and easier to repair. It is also more resistant to gas or solvent damage, think pump splash near tank filler.

[JerseyHarold]

One reason the older cars shined differently was because they used lead paint....outlawed these days.

[PatrickG]

Tim, your comment about all the late model cars running around with flaking clear coat...

One really common problem a lot of late 80's early 90's if my memory is correct is that companies (namely GM) tried switching to water based enamels. The water based paints they used back then had a lot of problems, like the adhesion with the clear coat. This stuff is apparently a completely different animal than today's water based, which I hear is much better.

[Flatie46]

The idea of base coat/ clear coat appeals to me because when you shoot the base if you get a run, you can sand it out when it dries. Then when you shoot the clear if you get a run you sand it and buff it when it dries. With the enamels your shooting color and shine at the same time and if you run it it's harder to fix. Now I have very limited knowledge about painting. I took autobody in highschool many years ago but I drink beer with several good bodymen on a regular basis.

[Plymouthy Adams]

while it was very predominant in that time frame..yes technology has improved the product over the years..the fact remains that the problem, though to a less extent, still is common place..each person is free to pick and chose based on their experience through ownership of said product, application of said product or by what ever means/manner they choose...to say the problem does not exist would be sticking one's head in the sand..problems arise out of every brand, system, formula etc etc..further..it was not a water base problem, it was not just one manufactuer..it was common and pretty much across the industry..

as to water borne paint..I have zero experience with the system..am sure if I keep at this hobby and the hazmat folks and green people have their say..if I can even apply my own paint in the future..will pretty much bet it will be water based..will I be happy..well to the extent I am still maybe doing my own work..yes..maybe..

Edited May 19, 2010 by Tim Adams

[55 Fargo]

I was just reading an interview with 49-51 Merc Car Customizer Bo Huff. When Bo was asked about Paint, he said he still only uses Lacquer based paint, and acrylic enamels. He also stated he has used BC/CC, has won awards with the so-called new technology paints, but he still uses and prefers old skool lacquer and enamel paint. He also mentioned, he uses one favorite spray gun for all his work. True or not, words spoken from an Expert.

I think acrylic enamel paint is super shiny, infact my paint job, high gloss synthetic enamel is just as shiny as any BC/CC, I have, and have seen. The clarity and depth on my paint job, is not as good, but I am the one at fault, my inexpereince, and elcheapo harbour freight spraygun, may be the cause.

I would not use any 2 k urethane paint products, without a special paint booth, and an air fed respirator. Painting outside, is not good idea, with this poison, especially if you have neigbours/children/animals nearby. I credit Tim Adams, for mentoring me in using enamel paints with modern enamel reducers and hardeners, the results are very good. Here is a pic of the shine on my synthetic enamel paint job, the color is grey, and will not bounce back a shine like reds and dark blues........

[Joe Flanagan]

The idea of base coat/ clear coat appeals to me because when you shoot the base if you get a run, you can sand it out when it dries. Then when you shoot the clear if you get a run you sand it and buff it when it dries. With the enamels your shooting color and shine at the same time and if you run it it's harder to fix. Now I have very limited knowledge about painting. I took autobody in highschool many years ago but I drink beer with several good bodymen on a regular basis.

I have been told that it takes more skill and experience to shoot a single stage and get it right.

[Plymouthy Adams]

how did they ever get a car painted before the BC/CC arrived on the scene..remember the old days of lamp black and shellac..now there is a dedicated skilled laborer..there was a time that if you asked for a car other than basic black..you were handed a blank outline on paper and a box of crayons..

[mackster]

Depends on what your are going to do with the car. When I first showed mine at a POC event I had points deducted because it was too shiey. The jusges insisted that it was base coat clear coat there fore not correct. When I proved to them is was single stage paint with no clear they still said it was to shiney. So I don't have it judged at POC meets ay more.

Most paint, even clear coat needs to be buffed to achieve its final finish, unless you want a mat or suede finish most reflectivity can be controlled through this end process.

Needless to say mine is no longer after 8 year this shiney but it still looks prety darn good.

greg, your car is perfect! nice paint! i know black will show everything....

[greg g]

Thanks Mack, it's far from perfect, but it suits me just fine. Black is a pain in the butt to keep up.

[Cpt.Fred]

my last restoration was a black opel and i have to say i don't want to go through that again...

after the first small dent life gets easier, though:rolleyes:

greg, your car IS perfect. period.

[old rat 49]

The first car I ever painted was a black enamel. Was told to put it on real wet. Then I watched it turn in to a hot fudge sundae, More runs than you can imagine. Got better with practice. Then started using lacquer which you can wet sand and fix errors. Much easier. New paints are a mystery to me.