engine issues

[PatS....]

On a 60+ yr old engine, I would be surprised if the block and head numbers matched...very surprised.

They don't have to match...they have to fit, they are all interchangeable which is the beauty of mass assembly line production.

Gather up your engine and find a rebuilder who knows his bottom from pegboard and isn't trying to shaft a guy who has little or no knowledge of mechanical things.

[Joe Flanagan]

I think the consensus is there is no such thing as matching numbers on a head. Correct?

Michael, what exactly is the situation with your mechanic? Is he having you hunt down parts for him? Seems like he ought to be doing that.

On the subject of these heads having a tendency to crack, I've been a member of this forum for about seven years and in all the discussion that has gone on here, I've not once heard mention of it. If it were true it definitely would have come up.

[michael.warshaw]

what should it cost me to rebuild my flathead, i was told somewhere in the 3k to 4k range. with boring and that type of stuff.

[RobertKB]

what should it cost me to rebuild my flathead, i was told somewhere in the 3k to 4k range. with boring and that type of stuff.

A lot depends on the amount of new parts put in and how much machining is done. Your quote is kind of the high end of reasonable and I would expect everything to be done that can be done. You have been given a good source for parts in this thread. Also, as already mentioned, make sure you have a mechanic that knows what he is doing and is familiar with these engines. A service manual will help also. A lot of good advice has been given to you in this thread.

Edited December 24, 2009 by RobertKB

[Joe Flanagan]

I think you have more pressing issues to deal with, like whether your mechanic is taking advantage of you and whether he is actually the person you want doing the rebuild. Others have posted the reasons you should hire someone who is familiar with flatheads.

Seven years ago, I had my engine work done by a machine shop for 1400. This did not include assembly. I built the engine myself. But what they did, and what your guy should do, is hot tank the block, perform a magnaflux test on the block, head, and crank for cracks, mill the top of the block, mill the bottom of the head, grind the valves/seats, bore the cylinders (if necessary), grind the rod and main journals on the crankshaft (if necessary), set the valve guides and wrist pin bushings, resurface the flywheel, and balance the whole assembly. I might have left out a thing or two, but that's what my machine shop did. I delivered the block to them completely stripped down so they didn't have to do it.

I bought all my parts at Vintage Power Wagons and assembled the engine in my garage. I also had to pay them extra because I had broken a head bolt off and they had to go through all kinds of hell to get it out. I'm going to say 3 or 4k sounds about right.

[michael.warshaw]

what should it cost me to rebuild my flathead, i was told somewhere in the 3k to 4k range. with boring and that type of stuff.

[Don Coatney]

what should it cost me to rebuild my flathead, i was told somewhere in the 3k to 4k range. with boring and that type of stuff.

Hold on a minute Mario;

14 forum members (myself included) have taken time to do research for you and offered very good suggestions on how you should procede. And the best response you have is above? Give me a break! You are knocking down way too many brick walls by not even saying THANKS to all who have responded. Do you think the forum members owe you a response to your questions? Most all responders have asked for more information in order to make a semi intellengent response. Yet you pay no attention, do not answer any of the questions the forum members have asked you, and you continue to ask foolish questions. Why?

[michael.warshaw]

why is this foolish i see most people say get a new enigne builder that doesnt help. i understand that the head doesnt have to match, but i want to know what it should cost to rebuild it so i dont get ripped off! Coatney if you dont like my threads dont respond! im not trying to fight with you, but you start with me every thread. STOP.

[kencombs]

We can't (at least I can't) answer the question without knowing more. Are you going for a plain vanilla stock rebuild? Or a more precise process including decking, line boring etc? Using a stock used cam? Or new performance type? Is your old cam serviceable? Stock pistons, or forged versions? Is your crank a usable core, or will it not clean up at .030 ? Will your be able to resuse the water pump and other accessories or not? Are they even in the scope of the question.

Not tryin' to be difficult, just explain the reasons for the lack of answers, and it is the lack of information in the question.

And, you need to listen to the responders, engage in a discussion to get meaningful information back, not just post open ended questions?

[Captain Neon]

There was a guy on this forum that has offered to rebuild any L6 MoPar for a very reasonable price. I've read from a couple satisfied people that he does good work, and, as he's done a good number of these MoPar L6s, he knows what he's doing.

However, I think you got cross-wise w/ him a while back and I doubt that he would be willing to help you out now. Were I in need of an engine rebuild, and I couldn't find a good shop in my neck of the woods, I'd be crating up my L6 or finding a good long block and sending it his way. Michael, you have burned so many bridges that few people are willing to do much for you now.

Telling a long-time, respected contributor of this forum that if you were admin. you'd have him banned does little for folks' willingness to help you out. Screaming, threatening violence, and demanding answers earn one little respect.

[greg g]

Micheal perhaps you need to hold on a bit also. When you post a question on an open forum, the question isn't your's any more, it goes out to the community, the thread though you may be the initiator is also in the public realm. You seem to want to ask a question and get a quick, simple answer (which from what I have observed seem to only have value when they support your point of view)

When I answer a public question, I try to associate the width and depth of my knowledge that may also may have some value to other members of the community. So forgive me for going deeper than you might want to go, and if others answer the question, even if you don't agree with it, others may find value in the responses.

You have challanged people because you didn't agree or you didn't see any value in the answer given. There are many opinions here, and sometimes its like the water cooler or a table at a sports bar with Yankees fans (yuck) Mets Fans, Boston fans and Cubs fans sitting around it. You will have a lively conversation based on facts, opinions, myths, statistics, and bald faced lies and half remember experiences. Sometimes it can get heated, devisive or laugh out loud hilarious. But you should be prepared to be challanged, cajoled, agreed with, and laughed at as well as with. Once in a while some one might support and agree with you also.So a thick skin and a bit of patience, might also help a bit. Agree to disagree with the poor sotted Cubs fan and move along with the situation.

You may not like Don or how he scratches your itch, but you can always move to the other side of the table or go to the men's room when he has the floor.

As far as what it should cost, I know what it cost up here in hick land, but you have already told us things are much more dear down there. So parts is parts, and you need to tally that up based on what you need and how you source it. My bill of fare was about 800 bucks. Labor well is is flat rate, or is it time and materials??? I sit clock time what is the shop rate.

Here is an simple example, one rebuilt single cylinder Kohler engine, new piston rings, crank work and bearing, bore and hone the cylinder grind the valves, reassemble to short block status ready for final assembly and accessories last year 495 bucks, times 6 plus tax and misc supplies, sounds like 2400 to 3 K, but I don't know your labor rate.

If you still think you need to throw down on somebody I'll meet you more than half way, Iwill be in New Paltz the day after New Years. I will make myself available on Heugonaut street from 1:30 to 2:00PM give or take for hangover purposes. I will be the short old, heavy guy with the gray beard and the gunny sackfull of broken sockets and stuff. No sharps or firearms. I will represent the old guys with the long, blowhard answers to the questions.

If you don't wanna read Coatney's or my stuff, stuff skip it.

Now, Its time for Christmas Eve dinner. Happy holidays to all , and safe travels to all that are going somwhere else.

Edited December 24, 2009 by greg g

[james curl]

Michael, I got all of my parts from Terrell Machine in DeLeon, Texas. He is listed here in the vendors and has an ad in Hemmings monthly in the Chrysler Parts with prices. All of the parts including the waterpump comes to just under $1,000.00. I hade my block surfaced on all sides that took a mating part, lined bored, cylinders bored .040 over, new valve guides installed and reamed to fit Chevy stainless exhaust valves, the exhaust are 1.5" dia and the intakes are 1.6" dia. The rods were resized and straightened, new bushings installed and reamed to the correct size, head milled .100" crankshaft thrust surface welded and turned back to stock specs. and the journals turned .010. I had the Cam reground to different specs, and the harmonic balancer rebuilt by the Damper Doc. All of the machine work with the new valves was just over $1,000.00. I bought a dual intake manifold and split my exhaust manifold, had both the generator and starter rebuilt. Had the flywheel resurfaced and the clutch disc relined and the pressure plate rebuilt. I also bought a new oil pump and had Terrell Machine rebuild my vacuum advance. I have $3,000.00 roughly in my engine installed in my car and that included all new engine mounts. I did the assembly work on the engine myself.

[james curl]

Michiel, If you do not want to see posts from Greg, Don, or myself or anyone else on the forum just put us on your ignore list and our replies will not show up on your screen. To open your ignore list just click on your profile and about half way down you will find edit ignore list which will allow you to add whom ever you chose to ignore to your list.

Edited December 24, 2009 by james curl

[Young Ed]

3-4k might be right for your area. You'd have to find another NYer to see what they paid. Mine was a few years ago now but I paid 1500. It was 800 labor and a little over 700 parts. Only thing not done was a new timing chain as the previous owner had just put a new one on my engine trying to revive it. I dropped off an engine completely assembled head to pan with no manifolds dist etc and 12 days later it was done and assembled back to that same condition. Now who is removing and installing your engine? If that is included in the 3-4k figure you are probably ok at that price.

[james curl]

Ed, his car is in a restoration shop for a body off frame so there is almost nothing to pulling and reinstalling the engine. It should all have been included in the estimate he was given to do the restoration. They should take the transmission and rear end back to like new condition and all of the brakes should be redone at the same time. If you are going for a complete restoration of a car all of this including paint and interior should be included in the estimate up front to start. I know of shops that the starting price is $50,000.00 and goes up, takes almost a year to do a restoration to show quality and correctness of all parts and materials.

[Don Coatney]

why is this foolish i see most people say get a new enigne builder that doesnt help. i understand that the head doesnt have to match, but i want to know what it should cost to rebuild it so i dont get ripped off! Coatney if you dont like my threads dont respond! im not trying to fight with you, but you start with me every thread. STOP.

Mario;

Quit smashing bricks! Re-read my posting.

I simply asked you to thank all the forum members for there responses. And to have the courtesy to answer the questions the forum members have ask you. Is that too hard for you to do?

[RobertKB]

It is Christmas Eve and I believe time to kill this thread. There has been good advice given and hopefully taken. It is now getting personal......once again on both sides. A nice Christmas present for the majority of forum members would be if the antagonists would add one another to their ignore lists. Enough said! To quote Tiny Tim once again from A Christmas Carol, "God bless us, Every One."

[Plymouthy Adams]

your are Right Robert but I must ask the question, "WHY" do his postings always seem to go this route...? inquiring minds want to know...

Merry Christmas..got a house full of company and full belly from the feast of the season...we do things on the EVE..that way everyone can be at their own homes on Christmas...

[RobertKB]

your are Right Robert but I must ask the question, "WHY" do his postings always seem to go this route...? inquiring minds want to know...

Merry Christmas..got a house full of company and full belly from the feast of the season...we do things on the EVE..that way everyone can be at their own homes on Christmas...

Conflicting personalities and past experiences.

Sounds like you have had a belly full.......food that is. We host Christmas dinner with representatives from four generations coming. My mom and dad, my wife and I, son, daughter, son-in-law, and the two cutest grandsons anyone could be blessed with. Sister and her family as well. Have done as much preparation as is humanly possible today. Should be fun!!!!

Edited December 24, 2009 by RobertKB

[michael.warshaw]

Thnak to everyone for answering my questions, MERRY CHRISTMAS.

[Don Coatney]

Thnak to everyone for answering my questions, MERRY CHRISTMAS.

You are welcome

[P-12 Tommy]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

Tom

[Dodgeb4ya]

End this awful thread!!!!! Getting tired of this people bashing crap!