not sure what to do???? need YOUR advice

[michael.warshaw]

bassically my suspension is all apart, and it has been powder coated.

the bottom of the car is filthy, from 65 years of use, and ny weather.

is it worth it to take the whole body off, car totally stripped, and have the frame blasted, and coated, or should i just leave it together, clean it up the best i can then under coat and paint the floor?

is taking the body off the car a nightmare or is it worth doing it, someone said to me its hard and very time consuming, and the bolts will all break, and not even worth i at all.

wahts your opinion. im not re selling the car, im going to keep it, prolly till i have gray hair, and a long beard.

[RobertKB]

With the time and money you are spending on your car, I would take the body off the frame and have it as nice as the rest of the car. It is a lot of work as I can verify as I did the same with my '38 Chrysler (see pictures). It is time consuming and dirty but you will be glad you did it. From what you have done so far, I would guess you want a nearly perfect car and the only way you will get that is to pull the body and do it right. New rubber body mounts are available. That is my advice and like all advice you can take it or leave it.

Edited November 11, 2009 by RobertKB

[Norm's Coupe]

Michael,

You are the only one who can answer a question like this. You have to ask yourself, how do I want this car to look. Do you want just a nice driver, or do you want a real show winner? Do you want to go to all that work involved or not to do a ground up? Will you be happy if the frame isn't perfect looking and the under body isn't perfect? When you answer those questions to yourself, then you will have your answer.

Look at it like a movie critic. Do you only go to 4 star movies, or do you take a chance on a 1 star movie. And, when you go to that 1 star or 4 star movie, do you always agree with the critic. I've seen movies where the critic said it was a rotten movie, yet I thought it was good. Remember a critic is just giving his opinion, and you won't always agree with his opinion. So.......really, our opinion doesn't count. It's what you want that counts. Either way, yes it's worth it if that's the way you want it done, even if you spend more than the car is worth doing it.

[dezeldoc]

Michael, welcome to the club! this is how it starts, a little here, than a little there, then the whole damn thing is in pieces and you are in the process of a body off restoration! that is why i buy mine as complete as possible and plan on doing the whole thing from the ground up! isn't being a perfectionist a bitch!

[TodFitch]

Body off frame: Been there, done that. Never again for me!

[boxer_inv]

wahts your opinion. im not re selling the car, im going to keep it, prolly till i have gray hair, and a long beard.

:eek:

seems that is a hair trend amongst some members here..... hey?! it's not contagious over the internet is it??!! Bad enough y'all influence me to the point where I'm considering my 2nd Mopar....now I gotta expect to follically conform too? Dang, my wife isn't gonna like that...

[Andydodge]

Michael, if you have the space, time, skills, etc then take the body off, but itemise bag, take notes of everything as you will need that info to put it back together, also unless you are superman expect it to take twice as long as you expect and cost more also........but it really is the only way to do it properly........good luck, have fun.....andyd

[Rollie���]

Michael,

It's all about money, time, and happiness. What are your goals? How long are you willing to wait until you can enjoy getting behind the wheel of your car and showing it off? Is pulling the body off the frame going to fix any potential rust problems that would cost you more later? Are you planning on having the car judged on a lift? If it were my car I would do what I could without lifting the body off as it seems it's in really good shape. Why do you think that this is "The Car" that you'll keep forever?

[Rollie���]

Robert,

Your car looks incredible! Have you ever thought about restoring a '51 for fun?

I could "volunteer" my car.

[michael.warshaw]

well im spening big money on it, and wont sell it, bassically how hard is it to take the body off, is it very difficult?

[Plymouthy Adams]

its so easy a caveman could do it...

[JIPJOBXX]

Why pull the body oft? Unless you have some serious rust problems most everything underneath can be cleaned up and painted without going through that process. And beside take a look at the market for cars today and do you think you will ever recoup your money outlay if you do this?

Taking oft the body could be along drawn out process and is very time consuming. I myself want to drive my car not just work on it.

[Tony Cipponeri]

My hat is off to the guys that have the skills, and patience to do a frame off. As for me there is no way that I would even start to do one. Tony C

[Plymouthy Adams]

I will admit the wagon was a bit harder than the coupe...the wagons have no balance point along the rockers...yet for the job and upgrade I was doing there was really no other way of doing the job and have the clean strong welds I wanted for the clip installation...it was by far the quickest and easiest method to get the frame clean at the same time...

so..if you got a solid concrete floor to work off of, the place to set the body...and a bit of help say another person and two floor jacks...you gought to be able to do the job quite nicely. If not, then for safety to yourself and the car..leave it in place...

Edited November 11, 2009 by Tim Adams

[RobertKB]

Robert,

Your car looks incredible! Have you ever thought about restoring a '51 for fun?

I could "volunteer" my car.

Sure, no problem but I think you left out two words after fun....."and money":p

Like Tod, been there and done that. Not sure I would ever do another frame off but would be willing to do a lesser restoration. It is getting so expensive to do things these days, I doubt I ever will.

Thanks for the compliment about the car. That was a 19 year project. I had young kids when I started and time and money were at a premium. Lost interest a couple of times and nearly sold it unfinished. Finally got it done for my daughter's weddding just over five years ago. She requested it and I got it finished with two months to spare. It might still not be done if not for that request.

[Norm's Coupe]

As you can see Michael, you'll get different opinions, and each one is right for that individual.

If you attend car shows, both those in the fields, parks, streets, etc., do you see people looking under the car? Usually, you won't see that. Now, if you go to an indoor show where guys put mirrors under their cars so people can see under it, that's a different story. Then you want the underside to sparkle just like the top side of the car.

If you plan on entering shows for competition to win trophies and awards, then you also want the underside of the car looking sharp. If not, then it's a personal choice how you want it to look under there.

A few guys mentioned the time involved too. It takes time to pull that body off and refinish the underside. Are you a patient person? If not, forget it. Just clean the bottom off with the body on the frame and then paint or undercoat it.

For what it's worth. Most cars at car shows are not number one cars. They are number three cars or low number two cars. Even if you do a perfect (like new from the factory) restoration, once you start driving it around a lot, it becomes a number two or three drivers. Number one cars are those that never hit the road after restoration. So........keep that in mind when you make your decision.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Norm's Coupe

[Plymouthy Adams]

NOrm's raod value is on the money advice...I have just finished up the 54 bascially for all paractical purposes and the insurance company and I agreed the retail market value..it was the exact vlaue and description applied by the NADA for my car and condition. To spend more and insure for less is negative money..you will never get your time out of the car...so money spend, paind to others etc is the dollar vlaue in..your love and attention is equal to that you give your wife and its exact value the moment she gets angry with you..squat...lol

[james curl]

Michael, check out David Maxwells car. It has been judged best in class at a very classy event. He did not do a body off, but a body lifted off of the frame. He used tubing cut to a standard length and raised the body up off of the frame six or eight inches so the frame could be sand blasted and the bottom of the car cleaned under the cross-members. Check David's web site on his restoration for details.

[michael.warshaw]

whats david website

[desoto1939]

Mike:

In your noumerous posting over the past several months you have been asking about NOS parts and for information on the car. In several of the posting and replys the forum members had asked what your plans were for the car, a very clean driver or a complete ground up and to be jusged at a POC or AACA event like Hershey.

Basically you stillhave not decided at this point. I am not trying to get on your case. I know you went to Hershey this past OCtober and during your visit I guess you got to see alot of restored cars that have to be upto the AACA standards. You did see some run of the mill cars and also some of the classics. Your car and also my 39 I consider the run of the millcar and this is not toput yours or anyone else car down. The car cost in the lower price ran when built and I hope is was when you purchased it. The Classics, PAckard, Rolls, Cadillacs etc of the 20,30 and some of the 40 etc will bring a return on your investment so long as someone is willing to pay the price for owning a number 1 AACA car. Also remember that these AACA Senior winning cars are never driven, they are trailor queens. THey are driven out of the enclsoed trailor and onto the show field and then put back into the trailor for the next show. The owners can not afford to get them dirty, have any oil on the frame, pait chips, scratchs and or any imperfections in the car. A total look at me car and some guys get their kicks out of this while others get their kicks out of restoring a car so they can then have the pleaseure of drving the car and just enjoying the experience.

If you want to go to the time to do a full ground up resto that is great and I applaud your for doing it if you decide to. If you go for AACA jusding this is how it works. THe car has to be perfect and look as if it came out of the dealers showromm just today for astarting point. Perfect in every way undercarraige, engine, interior, glass, chrome, paint on so and so on.

The first time out or at at least one show the highest you can get is a 1st Junior you can not go for a Senior AACA award. You need to have won the 1st Junior and then come back to the next AACA regional show and then go for the Senior. During this entire time the car basically can not be driven so as not to do any damage in the total appearance. The car would have to be trailored and basically in an enclosed trailor. Factor in the cost of enclosed trailor and truck to pullthe car to the show the cost of getting to the event and back over the year to two years. Allthis for a car that might get 20K for all of your work and has been sitting idle for two plus years.

After getting the Senior then do you want to go for preservation award or go for a Grand NAtional Award and the car still can not be driven.

So the big question is how do you and again you wan to use the car? Only you can answer that question, but I have tried to layout the jusding process for you if you decided to go the AACA and or POC route.

For me the cost and expensive was not worth the time and I wanted to drive my car so I cleaned up the frame and undercarraige to look presentable.

remember in AACA judginf there can not be any sign of grease, oil leakage, dirt, lube point can not have grease comeing out of the tierod ends etc. So you decide. I hope this helps and like I stated before this is just information to help you decide on which way to proceed. Good luck.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[boxer_inv]

whats david website

Go to the "Members List" link at the top of these forum pages. Go to "D" and find David Maxwell in the list. There is a "WWW" icon for his member listing, click on this and it goes to his site.

[Don Coatney]

As far as your car winning any points for authentic restoration you have already burned that bridge by powdercoating several parts of your car. So what you are building is a custom/hot rod. Will this custom/hot rod be worth more in 20 years if you remove the body from the frame? You must answer that question for yourself.

[michael.warshaw]

i want to make it a mint driver. powder coating is the oly way to go casue in a year paint will look terrible and fade and chip.

[PatrickG]

you want to keep it forever, so resale value shouldnt be a big factor.

I did a "frame off" on my car, and I would without a doubt do it again on any car I plan on holding on to.

Part of it is just the piece of mind and satisfaction of having everything gone through and cleaned up, whether or not others will take notice.

Most cars don't need it, mine certainly didn't, but it was a personal choice, as I'm not interested in making money off the car.

Another point few seem to mention; I can't explain to you how nice it was to have had a clean slate to work with putting this thing back together, and when on your back under there working on something, not having to deal with 57 year old dirt and grime flaking off in your face is SOO nice. It just eliminates part of the hassle of working on the uncomfortable/hard to reach parts in the undercarriage.

And these old mopars are simple man, compared to rebuilding the motor or suspension, it wasn't that big a deal pulling the body. Just call up a bunch of buddies to help ya lift it.

Its amazing what friends will do for you, when presented with a little free bbq incentive

[dezeldoc]

Michael, you are on the wrong coast, if you were closer i would be glad to do it for you, not all that hard but it is very time consuming. how do you rate your mechanical skills? this is past the tune up and oil change stage, how is your tool supply? lifts? stands A-frame hoist? as far as trying to recoup the $$ you are on the right track not wanting to sell it. you can do a decent job with it on the frame but for some reason i don't think you would be happy with just that. i say follow your feelings and do what you will want to achieve with the car.