OT cash for clunkers trade in

[Niel Hoback]

It can also eat away your common sense. At least its hard on mine. What little I have left.

[JerseyHarold]

One other thing to keep in mind is that many 'program' or 'off-lease' cars are really former daily rental cars, many of which originate in Florida. The manufacturers lease them to the big rental companies, so they are not 'technically' lying about the origin of the car, but you have to wonder how carefully the car was driven by its many renters.

Ford used to advertise 'former Ford Motor Company vehicles' and they were really ex-rentals. I sold one guy a year-old Lincoln Town Car with a little over 20 thousand miles on it. The car had zero maintenance. When we put it on a lift for the pre-delivery inspection, both front rotors had deep grooves from the rivets cutting into them.

[JIPJOBXX]

My new HHR is the fourth new car I have owned and by far it was the best deal. I bought my 2003 Honda for 13,500 in 03 and sold it for 7,000 dollars in 2009. I never had to do anything to that car but drive and do a little service work. So I really drove that car for six years and it cost me a thousand dollars a year. Not bad for a car that I never had to do anything but change oil. I hope that my HHR will give the same service and maybe in another six years I will buy another car new car. Like I said this one cost me out of my pocket 6,500 dollars including all the extras. So if I can drive my new car for for another six years it also will only cost me around a 1000 or so bucks a year. I think my math is pretty close and it a pleasure to drive something brand new. I drove my old 42 today to a car show about 40 miles away boy what a tank to drive compared to this new car. But that to be expected from a car that 65 year old. Oh it ran great even in the heat storm were having out here in the Pacific north west.

[greg g]

Gee a honda that retained half of its value for 6 years and no shop time, what a concept. Compare that to the Dodge Avenger of Chevy Impala that looses half it value the first year. Hmmmm Maybe those foreign jobs have something there.

[JerseyHarold]

Norm and Jon,

Both your new rides are very nice. I'm sure you will enjoy them for years to come.

I was at the dealer where my friend works yesterday and he told me that, out of about 40 clunker-program vehicles that came in, they killed the engine on only one of them. The dealership is holding off on doing the rest because of concerns about getting paid by the government.

PS: Several of the soon-to-be-dead vehicles had me drooling...it's really a shame to do this to them.

[kevinanderson]

Okay, i skimmed thru all of these posts. Has anyone considered how many of these cars will repo'd within a year or 18 months. And how many uninsured motorists are going to be out there when they pull the insurance after paying for a month or say 3 months?

[Don Coatney]

Guess one should never say they aren't going to do something. Left the house to go to JC Penny's for a couple of packages of new T-shirts about 4:30 PM Friday and came home at 9 PM with this instead. Took advantage of the "Clunker" program. With all the rebates I got a deal I couldn't refuse' date=' so the 95 Lumina van is now gone and this is in it's place. 09 Optima LX. Total of $8000 off, plus a tax deduction at years end on the sales tax paid. Never did get my T-shirts. Was thinking about possibly next year anyway, so like Jon's deal, this worked out great. That's a lot of free money to pass up.[/quote']

So what did the non purchased T-shirts cost? This is exactly like the TV commercial advertisements. "I just saved X% buying something that I did not plan on buying" Enjoy your new vehicle:rolleyes: Gonna park the P-15 outside now?

[JerseyHarold]

Kevin,

A very good point. The insurance companies will have a nice new excuse to raise everyone's rates because of the increase in uninsured drivers on the road.

Also, just think of all the older cars that had only liability coverage on them...their new replacements need full coverage bacause most of them are financed. The insurance companies are crying all the way to the bank!

Another thing that may or may not have been mentioned: Your state gets the sales tax right up front on every new car sold. So they benefit as well.

[Young Ed]

MN dropped the ins check at the DMV a few years back. No checking now unless you get stopped. I've heard they dont always check even then.

[eric wissing]

Okay, i skimmed thru all of these posts. Has anyone considered how many of these cars will repo'd within a year or 18 months. And how many uninsured motorists are going to be out there when they pull the insurance after paying for a month or say 3 months?

I don't see why the failure rate on the loans would be any different than before. I have heard it is much harder to borrow now. Like many said here. Don't borrow what you can't afford. The national saving rate is 4% now as opposed to just 1% a year ago. I hope that increases. Maybe people stop buying a lot of crap that just is thrown away.

I am not sure if Cash for Clunkers is a perfect program. It has sold some cars. I am sure it isn't perfect but better than money for bombs blowing up people ,we have never seen. We have wasted money in worst ways. It isn't the end. Eric

Edited August 24, 2009 by eric wissing
bad spelling

[kevinanderson]

I'm thinking about the the people who lose their new car will be back to driving older ones. Unable to get to work(if they do) etc. etc. And the fiscal responsibility heaped on me through more taxes, insurance rates, ad nausium.

Lotta assistance for the low wage/no wage crowd-extend the digital converter tv program, cash for clunkers, and national health coverage. JMO.

[Young Ed]

Makes you wonder why you should bother working huh?

[eric wissing]

I'm thinking about the the people who lose their new car will be back to driving older ones. Unable to get to work(if they do) etc. etc. And the fiscal responsibility heaped on me through more taxes, insurance rates, ad nausium.

Lotta assistance for the low wage/no wage crowd-extend the digital converter tv program, cash for clunkers, and national health coverage. JMO.

I still don't see why there will be a higher failure rate. Before the program there was a pretty low car loan failure rate. People do not like to lose their cars. I guess you just are not happy with this Federal Program. I don't see any higher taxes for you in the near future unless you make over $250K. You just don't like this President. Cool. I didn't like my tax dollars being spent in Iraq, and still don't. This isn't a buffet style of government where we get to decide what program we personally like and thus fund. I like our Interstate Highways. I like that we have Medicare, Social Security, a Military, Air Traffic Controllers. National Institute of Health. I guess some people don't like poor people or blame them for their poverty. I eat the food that is cheap because of their low wages. I live in a state that is filled with welfare recipients, we call them Farmers. Wall Street is also filled with welfare recipients and has been for a long time. JMO

[Young Ed]

Norm whats the scoop on the appliance thing? I just had to get a new washer. I saw some tax rebates for stuff like water heater and furnace but didnt see washer/dryers.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I basicaly went 17 years without paying taxes..now that has all caught up to me and I am paying taxes again..however like the man said...this is not buffet government, but we can still have buffet metality..it so happens that the dollars I pay go exactly where I want them..it is your dollars being spent on the programs I don't necessay see as important..lol

same mentality of the CFC for those familar...we promise your dollars go where you pledge..bull...it is only calculated out of the "cut" this orginazation will receive...so go blow that smoke somewhere else..

[Don Coatney]

Here is an intersting website. Fits in with Norms think positive salesmens thing that is very good.

Home appliances may be part of our salvation. And the service aspect needs to be explored.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/appliances.html

I see that there is a link to the Fuller Brush Company on this site. I once was a Fuller Brush salesman in the 70's. I, to this day, still use some of there brushes daily.

http://www.fullerdirect.com/products.asp

It makes me feel good to see American made products still being manufactured. If everyone quit buying paper umberalles from off shore our economy would bennefit.

[greg g]

The failure rate will come from the predatory dealers ships that will do anything they can to get some one bought. I have seen some of the fees and interestr rates on thes loans that are in the high teens.

We have the Fucillo chaind of dealerships and in July he has a deal where he tries to sell 2000 Hyundais, this year he opened a Kia dealership so they had a "battle of the brands" to see which one could move the most tin. This year the Kia dealer ship did 600 uits and the Hyundai place did about 700. Most of those wer sold to people with questionable cradeit ratings and scores. Most of them ot folks who were very upside down in high interest rate loans on cars they already couldn't afford, or wrecks that would bearly move under there own power. He gets them bought, at rediculous interest rates and you end up with some poor schnook with a 7 year payment of 400 bucks a month on a 13 K Elantra oa spectra but with their other vehicle budled in their loan is probably north of 20k, and they will pay close to 30k for the POS if they can manage to keep it. Most probably won't.

But he doesn't care, he moved the car, got his volume incentives from the mannufacturer

( some one said he got 1 million + if they moved 1000 units or more) so he makes him money regardless of what he shows as the selling price of the car.

Norm probably got a good deal because, his clunker was paid for, he has good credit, and he knows how to play the game. Unfortunately there are a lot of folks out there who did not have those things going for them. they just say the money off and went for it no matter of the actual true costs. If he got his loan through the dealer, the joint gets a bone there, so he probably could have doe bit better if he had arranged hiw own financing, but he would probably say the convenience of going through the dealers contacts was worth the difference he could have realized, with a bit of leg work.

[james curl]

I do not know how anyone could buy a car from a car dealership and not get angry with the BS you have to put up with all of the different people you have to see just to buy any car anytime. The shisters work double time trying to snooker the client. I wanted to by a used car, had the cash money in my pocket. First he wanted my wife there and I told him it would be my car not hers we did not need her there. After that the salesman had to go to his manager with my offer then came back and asked me again how much I would pay, I told him the first time what I would pay, showed him the money and told him they could keep their car because I would not play their games. Same thing now if you want to buy a refrigerator or any other appliance.

[greg g]

Don't try to buy a computer or a TV, all the Worst Buys, Scam USA's etc, want to sell you the goof squad thing before they will talk to you about the units. Service contract, installation assistance, extended warrenties, etc. It all a crock!!!

[james curl]

Well Norm, I figure you are a lot more laid back than I am. I have less patience than a pi-s ant. I have not tried to buy a car since the bottom fell out, might have made them re-think their policies.

[Captain Neon]

I won't be buying any cars for quite a while. The wife's '92 Acclaim runs great as does the '92 LeBaron convertible. My '97 Neon runs great too. The Jeep has sat so much this summer that the battery went dead, probably need a new battery... I work so many hours that I haven't even been able to enjoy my P15 this summer. She hasn't even been started since Memorial Day. When I do have a day off, it's either raining or I have to mow lawn!

My cars will rot away from disuse before they actually wear out and need replaced.

[Captain Neon]

I still don't see why there will be a higher failure rate. Before the program there was a pretty low car loan failure rate. People do not like to lose their cars. I guess you just are not happy with this Federal Program. I don't see any higher taxes for you in the near future unless you make over $250K. You just don't like this President. Cool. I didn't like my tax dollars being spent in Iraq, and still don't. This isn't a buffet style of government where we get to decide what program we personally like and thus fund. I like our Interstate Highways. I like that we have Medicare, Social Security, a Military, Air Traffic Controllers. National Institute of Health. I guess some people don't like poor people or blame them for their poverty. I eat the food that is cheap because of their low wages. I live in a state that is filled with welfare recipients, we call them Farmers. Wall Street is also filled with welfare recipients and has been for a long time. JMO

I keep reading through the Constitution, and I am looking for where all of these things you state are authourised. I can't find them. I read through the Federalist Papers, and they were supposed to explain how the Constitution was supposed to work, and even the Anti-Federalist Papers that brought about the Bill of Rights. In essence, if it ain't spelled out in black & white it isn't authourised. I found the 9th and 10th amendments that state that very thing, but I can't find any where in the Constitution where:

1) The military can go any where but its US forts without a declaration of war by Congress.

2) Medicare (subsidised medical care)

3) Social Security

4) Air Traffic Control

5) National Institute of Health (medical overseers)

6) welfare

7) subsidies

I don't understand how a private organisation can't do all of these things. If I were to rely on the federal government to supply me with clean food, I'd really be in a world of hurt. I thank God that there are private third-party auditing companies, like Silliker, Steritech, the American Institute of Baking, NSF, Cook & Thurber, SQF, and kosher certifications that audit food manufacturing plants and farms to certify that my food is produced at the very highest standards using real science.

I'll keep looking, but I just can't find them. Maybe they issued a different version for people in Iowa? Maybe one with pictures and smaller words?

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship"

[Don Coatney]

and kosher certifications that audit food manufacturing plants and farms to certify that my food is produced at the very highest standards using real science.

No offense intended for those of the Jewish persuasion but this is a true kosher story. I had a friend who worked for the Columbus, Ohio parks department in the early 70's. He ran the paddle boat rental on the Olentangy river in downtown Columbus. One morning he arrived at the dock to find a couple of people on there knees with there hands in the water. He ask them what they were doing. They replied that they worked for a kosher restaurant. In order to maintain the kosher status they were required to dip all food utensils (plates, silverware, etc) in a stream of free flowing water to insure cleanliness. Trust me this river was anything bit clean. Upon further questioning my friend found out that when they return the utensils to the restaurant and run them through the dishwasher.

[greg g]

The United States has declared war on only 5 occasions. But has been at war nearly continuously in some form or another. The executive powers actgives the President in his role as Commander in Chief, the ability to use the militayr to protect American Citizens or their interests, within certain limits as far as numbers and time of deployment.

However, these actions are usually supported by an Authorization to use Military Force.

These actions have been used inumerable times to wage war or conduct war fighting, while not actually being at war. So check out the list of Declared wars, and the list of

military reactions, conflicts, police actions, peace keeping, incursions, reactions, interventions and actions in support of United Nations Security Council Resolutions, and or NATO.

Even the Civil War was not a War, it was a military reaction to an armed rebellion against the recogized government of the Union.

Lets not even discuss the actions against Native Americans.

And lets ot talk about the tax dollars spent, and lives expended but not counted for the ever more popular out sourcing of "security measures" to private companies and their employees. Because they are authorized and accounted for outside of the Authoriztion for use of Military Force. Where is that dealt with in the constitution.

[eric wissing]

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship"

Well, I guess you are not happy with the country. Ayn Rand was an author as was L. Ron Hubbard. My personal belief is that both should have stuck to Fiction. Maybe they did. We are adaptive. We no longer have tails. We fly around in shiny metal birds. We do not have long bread lines. There are not people starving , grazing in the ditches. Things could be better, they will be. They will get worse too and then better again. We have come a long way. We have a long way to go. I think that the Indians are slowly taking back their country. We call them Mexicans. So far it seems pretty peaceful. I like the tan, I hope some of my children marry some of their children. Peace