Are those cheap, new, aluminum radiators any good?

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

The radiator in my Plymouth has a VERY small leak. So small it doesn't even drip. Its just "weeping" a little. I have a 1955 Mercury too and its radiator was rotten. I had it re-cored. That was 20+ years ago. I did a quick search for radiators for the car and there's tons of new ones on Amazon for less than $200, which would be a LOT cheaper than having the original rebuilt. No rush as a little stop-leak will solve that issue. But still- that is very tempting if any good. Here is one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/RadySpeed-Aluminum-Radiator-Plymouth-Chrysler/dp/B09LC3394T

[Ivan_B]

9 minutes ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

No rush as a little stop-leak will solve that issue.

Please, no 😅

The universal application aluminum rads should work, as long as they fit and provide equivalent heat-exchange ratio. You can also try to find a used one, or install the universal one temporarily, while you fix your OEM. Depending upon the location of the leak, you might be able to easily solder it yourself.

[Sniper]

I've been running one of those Champion aluminum radiators specifically made for my 51. Had it for more than a year now with no issues. It's been my observation with old radiators that if you start leaking stop leak or even soldering a hole doesn't really help because you just find the next weakest spot to leak

[Los_Control]

I bought a used one, just the way I am  

What the Hey, I needed one to run the engine, was local, it was a wide 3 core, all hoses were in correct location and it was easy to adapt to install. Best of all it was $50.

 

It is not a name brand, is some custom made by a shop in Louisiana .... originally in a 57 chebby .... was replaced because of age and appearance.

It is old, it looks bad and it works perfectly. .... My engine will not warm up to operating temp without a T-stat installed to control flow.

A little black paint and it looks right at home in a old truck.

Only point is, the radiator is old and been in service for 15+ years by someone, and still works fine.

 

 

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Ok good. The radiator in the car is the original one. It looks like it too. It only started weeping when I changed and flushed the coolant. I assume whatever debris was in the coolant was working as the "Stop leak". Flushing it just removed it. $200 really isn't bad and its probably an hour job at best. 

[Loren]

Decades ago I worked in a combination Olds dealer and when the parts department issued a water pump or a radiator they gave you two biscuits of “GM Sealant”. The biscuits were the diameter of the radiator filler and about an inch thick, so they would just drop in the radiator. It was “come back insurance”.

Somehow those biscuits really worked and they didn’t coat the inside of the cooling system with crud that only a radiator shop could remove.

Fast forward to modern times. I have a 2008 F 250 diesel and they are famous for their crappy plastic tank radiators. Like so many owners of these things I noticed an antifreeze puddle under the front of the truck one morning. A close inspection revealed a crack in the tank at the return hose about 1 3/4 long. I stopped at NAPA and got a package of those biscuits which are now available on cards everywhere, the patent has long ago run out. That was about 10 years ago and when the coolant went down a little about 5 years ago, I put two more in. I carry a couple in the truck but no coolant ( too bulky ).

I like the original “Bee Hive” radiators and if mine springs a leak I’d find another and get it fixed.  But I would not recore one. If it was a weeping leak I would use the biscuits first.

It’s just my personal preference.

[Los_Control]

They just do not make the good products anymore.

 

I have in the past used Bar's Leaks product. It was a brown syrup with pellets in it that looked like rabbit ********.

 

I had a 1961 D100 truck with 6-8 holes in the radiator where the fan hit it .... I drove the truck a few years and then lost a fan belt and it overheated.

I fixed the fan belt and the radiator started leaking, I put the bars leak back in and drove it a long time with no issues.

 

25 years ago they changed the formula and no longer had the pellets in it .... it never worked as good since then .... now all available is sealants for aluminum radiators and a whole different animal.

[rustyzman]

I used many of the GM pellets in the shops.  Supposedly were intended to lubricate the water pump seal. 

 

The one I personally have used exclusively for the last 15+ years is K-Seal.  Same stuff that Subaru issued to help with MLS head gasket issues.  We always called it Mechanic in a Bottle.  It works.

https://www.kseal.com/products/k-seal

 

It works well and does not clog up radiators and heater cores.  I use it at coolant changes on the '54 Truck and the '73 RV, just as a preventative measure.

[Ivan_B]

9 hours ago, Sniper said:

It's been my observation with old radiators that if you start leaking stop leak or even soldering a hole doesn't really help because you just find the next weakest spot to leak

Is your system pressurized? Mine is not, so that is not very leak-prone

 

8 hours ago, Los_Control said:

It is not a name brand, is some custom made by a shop in Louisiana ....

That rad looks great. If I did not know what the OEM should look like, I wound not have noticed. Also - good fuel filter 😉

[Sniper]

3 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

Is your system pressurized? Mine is not, so that is not very leak-prone

 

Of course

[p15-1948]

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

I've been running one of those Champion aluminum radiators specifically made for my 51. Had it for more than a year now with no issues. It's been my observation with old radiators that if you start leaking stop leak or even soldering a hole doesn't really help because you just find the next weakest spot to leak

 

Agree, had a Champion in a 48 Plymouth and it did its job with no issues.

[spongebob]

where do i get a wide 3 core that los control mentioned? also, when i look down the filler how do i know if it is 2 or 3 core? mine is suposd to be a three core but i only see two tubes when i look. this is a54 with a 265.   denis   

[Los_Control]

Just for giggles I searched Champion 3 row radiators .... Here is one shaped like mine but not the same for a chevy truck. All the connections work on the flathead 6 engines. $245 ..... The mounting is different but may work ..... this took less then 1 minute to find .... search for something closer and look for different options.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Cooling-Chevrolet-Aluminum-Radiator/dp/B00AOCUHV6

 

[kencombs]

6 hours ago, spongebob said:

where do i get a wide 3 core that los control mentioned? also, when i look down the filler how do i know if it is 2 or 3 core? mine is suposd to be a three core but i only see two tubes when i look. this is a54 with a 265.   denis   

Don't get hung up on core count.   That meant something when all the cores were copper, and same tube size.   A 2  core aluminum with bigger individual tubes may be the same heat discharge capacity.   They are so different in material and design that matching core count is meaningless IMNSHO.

 

I suspect that the older, smaller tube, but denser fins may be less efficient due to restricting air flow.   I've found that a lot of heating issues can be solved by moving more air, not water.

[Los_Control]

I admit to hearing conflicting opinions ..... size matters.

 

They are still sold as 2 row and 3 row ..... If you have a truck you use for towing a trailer ..... is advised to select a 3 row.

If you have a Hot Rod with a high performance engine and go to drag week and sit for long lengths of time in hot sun waiting to check in .... bigger the better.

 

Granted our little 6 cylinders do not need a large heavy duty radiator ..... but if they are the same price ..... why not?

 

My original honeycomb radiator is 2" thick ..... my aluminum radiator is 3.25" thick, taller but same width as original.

[Sniper]

18 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I admit to hearing conflicting opinions ..... size matters.

 

But it is how the size is gained that matters most.  Adding in a third row, but over all height and width are the same, not so much an improvement as the third row restricts airflow and has hotter air flowing across it.  Themodynamics show that the biggest factor in heat transfer is the difference between the heated medium and the cooling medium, the larger the differences the greater the effect.  Now if you were to take a two core radiator and lengthen it enough to add in the same amount of tubes a three row gave you then you'd see a larger increase in cooling than the same tubes in a three row configuration.  Which is not to say you don't get some increase in cooling with a three row, it's just a diminishing return in that style packaging.

 

Lots of mopars had wider radiators in a HD cooling package.  22 vs 26" radiators come to mind.  However, if you don;t hae the room, or don;t want to cut up the core support, then you are limited to what can fit there and in that case a three row is an improvement, of sorts.

 

Of course there are other factors too, such as fin count.  More fins per inch of tube length is better,, until it gets dense enough to restrict airflow.  To overcome that, to an extent, you make wider tubes that allow more fin to tube contact.  That is limited by materials strength though,  Aluminum tubes can be wider than brass in this case, but brass conducts heat better, however the lead based solder that connect the fins to the tube, in brass applications, negates that to an extent.  Aluminum tubes and fins are welded, all aluminum, so no lead restricting heat flow.

 

Many variables

[Dan Hiebert]

Probably just semantics, but "cheap" and "inexpensive" are different things in my book.  There are several Forum members who run aluminum radiators with no issues.  Availability of original radiators is dwindling, and as you noted, re-coring is indeed expensive.  The original diamond pattern cores are no longer made, the closest is an Auburn heater core pattern that is only made in England which adds to the expense if you want as original as possible, getting mine recored with that Auburn core cost more than the car originally did - but that digresses from your query.  There is at least one thread from a year or two ago that goes deeper into that.  

 

I'd look at the fit and finish of the product, and ensure it is a proper fit if you're wanting a close match.  Which means a little more expense, and a brand with wider recognition.  A couple years ago I ordered an inexpensive aluminum radiator off of Amazon that was supposed to fit our D24.  It did not.  It was less expensive than listings for other cars, but was "cheap", which I couldn't ascertain until I got it.  The hook was that it was the only aluminum one that listed it would fit a D24.  I could have probably made it fit, but I chose to return it.  The mounting brackets were not right, and the angle of the upper outlet was way off.  That and the welding looked horrible, to the point I could not have hidden it with paint.  The average Joe or Jane Spectator probably wouldn't notice, but it would have bugged me to no end.  If you aren't concerned with a close to original appearance, there are generic or general purpose ones from reputable manufacturers that work as well as or better than an original one.

[Los_Control]

IMHO, I think capacity is the key .... If it holds more liquid then the next, it will be capable of doing a bigger cooling job.

 

Modern vehicles have gone with a smaller capacity radiator and raised the pressure so the engine runs at a higher temp without boiling over .... this works fine on modern vehicles.

 

Our old heater cores were not designed for high pressurized systems ..... larger radiator with more liquid capacity and lower pressure/temps is not bad.

Same time if you replace your heater core with modern, you can raise your pressure and temps and get a cleaner burning engine.

 

I also think Amazon is fine if you pick a name brand such as Champion .... Amazon is just a middle man.

 

I still think bigger is better .... also think our little engines do not care ....

3 row may block some wind for cooling, but is offset if it is holding 1/2 gallon more coolant then a 2 row.

[Eneto-55]

6 hours ago, Los_Control said:

IMHO, I think capacity is the key .... If it holds more liquid then the next, it will be capable of doing a bigger cooling job.

 

Modern vehicles have gone with a smaller capacity radiator and raised the pressure so the engine runs at a higher temp without boiling over .... this works fine on modern vehicles.

 

Our old heater cores were not designed for high pressurized systems ..... larger radiator with more liquid capacity and lower pressure/temps is not bad.

Same time if you replace your heater core with modern, you can raise your pressure and temps and get a cleaner burning engine.

 

I also think Amazon is fine if you pick a name brand such as Champion .... Amazon is just a middle man.

 

I still think bigger is better .... also think our little engines do not care ....

3 row may block some wind for cooling, but is offset if it is holding 1/2 gallon more coolant then a 2 row.

So would you say that these old engines would do fine running at higher temps? (You sort of "anticipated" my first question - about if one could not just use a modern heater core, and run a pressurized system.) 

 

But I also wonder about the water pump - can it stand higher pressure?  (I'm not challenging what you said - it just sounds interesting to me.)

[Sniper]

24 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

But I also wonder about the water pump - can it stand higher pressure?

NOt sure the original style, with a grease nipple, will.  But new builds do, I am running a 14lb cap on my system with no issues so far

[Eneto-55]

12 hours ago, Sniper said:

NOt sure the original style, with a grease nipple, will.  But new builds do, I am running a 14lb cap on my system with no issues so far

Is the determining difference that the new pumps have sealed bearings?

[Los_Control]

Seems like the old style would be prone to leak under pressure .... seems when they start leaking it is time to grease them .... pressure would just wash the grease out faster.

 

Sometimes I think higher temps would help the engines run better but more important burn the sludge off and be a cleaner running engine.

I do have a original mopar heater/core in my truck .... I also have a new style water pump and a pressurized radiator.

I do not know what the cap is rated for in psi .... is what came with it and has a custom aluminum cap epoxied on to it so cant read it.

 

My heater core has not started leaking yet, but has only a few hours on it with pressurized system .... it is 75 years old and would not be surprised if it leaks regardless.

I'm confident it would not be too difficult to find a new replacement core if it does leak.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

14 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Is the determining difference that the new pumps have sealed bearings?

I have no data to support my conclusion but yes I think you are correct

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

This was years ago. But what I recall when I had the rad rebuilt in my Mercury was that the shape and form of the coolant channels was important. The radiator came back from the shop with brand-new coolant channels that had "waves" in them. The idea being that the coolant would take just a bit longer to travel through the channels and spend more time in front of the incoming cool air and fan. My old cars have always run a bit cool compared to modern cars. That's just how they are. I am running it seems around 175 degrees with the Plymouth. My Mercury runs cooler then that. Never had a problem.

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

I have no data to support my conclusion but yes I think you are correct

 

In theory, the bearing should never be in contact with the coolant.   Sealing it in the engine and away from the bearing is a function of the seal.   However the sealed bearing would certainly be more likely not to pass an seal seepage.    I think the change in the frequency of pump failures has to do more with improved ceramic seals and more precise manufacturing of said seals.  A much improved design compared to the old adjustable packings that used to be the norm.   Dealing with that is how slip joint pliers became known as 'water pump pliers'.