201 head bolt issues

[p24-1953]

so the ongoing saga of the broken head bolts continues... soaked for a week and welded a nut on to both of them gently applied pressure and pop. broke them off flush with the block. ordered a set of reverse drill bits and slowly drilled a hole in the bolt to get a back out tool installed. it bit good. applied a little pressure and snap. broke the back out tool off flush with the block.

 

what do i do now?

 

 

[Loren]

When you have Bolts or studs that go into the water jacket they build up a rust ball on the end. That’s why they break. Just about the only thing you can do is to screw them into the water jacket and retrieve them later. When ever you rebuild an engine you find all sorts of core wires and bits of metal in the water jacket from when the engine was made. So that is what I would do. One thing is for sure they are not coming out the top, without careful drilling and finally chiseling the bits out.

When you put it back together, measure the holes for depth and make sure the bolts or studs are not longer than the threads. Get some low strength loc-tite and use it on the threads. That keeps the rust out of the threads.

[Ivan_B]

36 minutes ago, Loren said:

One thing is for sure they are not coming out the top, without careful drilling and finally chiseling the bits out.

I concur.

[p24-1953]

I was hoping to loosen them up so i could drive them in the block.  So over the past week I have welded a nut or bolt on to the two bolts at least a dozen times.   I even had a actual welder come by and try 3 times and they have never even  budged.   I have tried several time to drill out the bolts and I am making no progress the drill never seems to bite.   I have tried several different bit and sizes but it will not drill into the broken easy out.  I have tried left and right hand bits. ....

 

I am about to the point of putting the head back on with out  two of the 3 center bolts.   Or weld a stud on to the broken bolt and use that to torque the head on.

 

Talk me out of this poor decision

Edited September 14 by p24-1953
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[p24-1953]

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Edited September 14 by p24-1953

[Sniper]

3 minutes ago, p24-1953 said:

am about to the point of putting the head back on with out  two of the 3 center bolts.   Or weld a stud on to the broken bolt and use that to torque the head on.

 

Talk me out of this poor decision

 

You know it isn't going to work and you'll just have to pull the head again.  Me?  My back hurts just thinking about lifting that head off leaning over the fender, lol.

 

 

[SteveR]

Is it possible to use a diamond burr on a Dremel or mag drill press to grind up the extractor? also, have you tried any heat

[Los_Control]

Is there a double post of this issue? ... seems last week @greg g gave a good reply and I threw in my 2 cents worth.

 

When welding a nut onto a broken bolt, there is so little welding surface. Usually just inside the nut .... maybe a couple tacks outside.

One good zap in the center of the nut and all the welding surface is covered up and no real penetration. The weld will not hold and pressure and break.

 

If you weld a larger fender washer to the bolt first .... ideally depending how much bolt you have to work with, a large washer that will slide over the bolt and then you can weld all the way around the washer to the bolt. The washer is thinner so easier to get good penetration on it and it will not break free.

If you use a 1.5" fender washer ... you can get a big honkin 1" bolt to weld to the washer ... all the way around the outside leaving enough room for a wrench ... also weld inside. .... With all the extra welding you are adding strength but also heat into the rusted bolt .... the heat will help break the rust free.

 

Also adjust your welder for the most amount of heat to get good penetration .... were not worried about warping body panels ... we want heat.

[vintage6t]

2 hours ago, SteveR said:

Is it possible to use a diamond burr on a Dremel or mag drill press to grind up the extractor? also, have you tried any heat

+1

This is the only way I know of to get a broken extractor or tap out. Grind it. It can be done with dremel and diamond grinding bits. Many many hours of grinding though.  Your not so much drilling it out but really chipping it out.

[Veemoney]

First step now is to get the easy-out removed.

A close-up picture of the hole and remnant currently would help as these repairs are not a one size fits all. Head bolts are tough steel, easy-outs are hardened steel, and carbide bits would be the next step up in hardness then diamond coated. They sell carbide drills and burr bits that are small shanked to run in air grinders or electric Dremel type tools. Without seeing it I would suggest a round head carbide burr bit which you could probably pick up at Harbor Freight. I know they also carry diamond coated as well but that is a slow cutting process and water would help if you go that route to help flush and cool the cutting.

 

It helps to pick up a couple burr configurations like a pencil tip which can help if you have room to grind a flat area on the side of the easy-out  and try to turn it out if it has the long spiral flute as opposed to you the tight spiral flutes and a magnet or air to pull chips. 

 

long spiral and tight spiral taps, cut off tap where it will bottom out if need be

 

 

Steel 1/4" shank carbide burr bits in many configurations. Most common for your needs shown on the lid edge

 

Pencil grinder with 1/8 carbide pencil tip burr, Dremal grinder has 1/8 round tip burr configuration but they come in many more.

[p24-1953]

3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Is there a double post of this issue? ... seems last week @greg g gave a good reply and I threw in my 2 cents .

Same post been fighting it for another week and coming back for third round of advice

Edited September 14 by p24-1953

[p24-1953]

Thank you all for the input.   Los control,  this is a continuation of the first post I have been doing the washer approach  this week several times.   I will attach it with a dremel tool this week.  An family friend is bringing a mag drill press over this weekend and try a Diamond coated bit.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Veemoney said:

First step now is to get the easy-out removed.

 

I removed many a broken EZ Out over the years.  Only fair since I broke them.  In fact, my last go around was on the spare 230's exhaust studs.  My son was on hand for that and he got to see how I get them out.

 

I use a punch and a big hammer to beat them into submission.  EZ Outs are fairly brittle, that's why they break so easy.  You can break them up by beating on them and fish the chunks out. 

 

I still haven't gotten those studs out, now I am going to have to buy a welder, learned to weld and see if that does the trick.  Or just hand it off to the machine shop to remove when the block gets machined.

[justold1]

since you broke an ez out in the hole I would into finding someone with portable EDM service and have them machine out the broken ez out and bolt.

[Jerry Roberts]

I have seen utube vidios of a machine shop using a torch to ' blow '  a broken easy out away . 

[Los_Control]

@p24-1953 here is a mock up of what I'm talking about.

 

 

You can visually see how much more welding surface you have to weld the washer to the bolt ... welded correctly it will not bust free from the bolt.

 

 

Now weld a big arse nut to the washer .... again you see how much welding surface you get ....

 

If you do it this way and I would at least try it .... it might not work. As far as I know this is the best chance you have .... and it does not matter if a busted bit is in the center of the bolt ..... If this method did not work ..... I would resort to drilling the old bolt out all the way and maybe retapping the treads to next size if I did a poor drill job.

[p24-1953]

Had a professional come by and try the washer on the stud approach and had no luck with their work either.  I'm going withe the mag drill press approach now.

 

If I can get it to bite.   I will pull the block and have the machine shop get it.

 

Thanks for all the advice so far