VIN NUMBER. VS SERIAL NUMBER

[OnlyMopar]

I have a 1947 Dodge Custom, D 24, 7 passenger Sedan. Haven't been able to locate a VIN Number. There is a plate attached to the front driver side door post which has a serial number. Was this year and model registered/ titled by VIN Number or Serial Number? Thanks in advance for any info.

[Sniper]

In Texas that year would have used the engine serial number on the title.

 

There was no VIN, per se, back in those days.  You had a body serial number and you had an engine serial number and they were not the same.  Which number was used was up to the state to decide.

[TodFitch]

See my VIN page at https://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin

[DonaldSmith]

VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number.  So, a serial number is a VIN. 

 

(Please, not "VIN Number".  It's redundant, like "3 year anniversary" instead of "third anniversary. But don't get me started.)  

[Dan Hiebert]

How your car was originally registered would depend on the State(s) it has been titled and registered in.  How it would be done now is still up to the State you're in.  Most will allow a registration with the engine number to carry forward, as long as that same engine is still in the car, but if you're starting from scratch, they will want the serial number.  If registering as an antique auto, they may give you the option.  Either one will come up in their system as a non-compliant VIN, which they can override.  Whichever is used will be entered in the State's system as the VIN.  If you are seeking to title/register your '47, it would be best to ask your State's DMV.        

 

If you're just curious - Vehicle identification numbers were not standardized until 1981, at which time the number was statutorily called the Vehicle Identification Number by Federal legislation.  Until then, it was up to the individual States to decide whether to use the serial number of the engine, or the serial number of the car for its titling / registration requirements.  The legislation mandating VINs also mandated the States to use the VIN for titling and registration for 1981 and later cars.  

 

Edited August 17 by Dan Hiebert

[Sniper]

3 hours ago, DonaldSmith said:

So, a serial number is a VIN. 

 

Technically, yes.  Legally they are different.  VIN's didn't come into being till 1954, but as Dan said, they weren't standardized till 1981.

[greg g]

I wonder what the order sheet or build card would say to these questions?  A kinda chicken or egg thing. And when in the build process the serial numbers were attached.  It seems you would originate a build sheet after receiving an order.  The build sheet would then call up a frame, the frame would get engines marked for D24  then trans rear axle, drive shaft suspension,  steering, brakes, wheels/tires.  Mean while a designated body would drop from supplies of body components stamped by Briggs Body works.  Then main body, fenders doors trim . Seats dash, etc were matter to the rolling chassis.  Some where along the line, the engine number would get stamped into the frame drivers side arch.  Is this now a car?  Seems so but let's finish it out, then rivet on this stamped sequential number plate so we can track production numbers, change from 16 to 15 inch wheels and tires and note the change. So even though engine number is stamped and makes for a moving pile of parts, it still ain't a car till the last hub cap snaps into place.  Cuz an engine is a replaceable part not a car.  Here in NY even at adjoining counties, the vehicle would be "papered" in county A by engine frame number and in B by serial number But wait, isn't the body repayable part also.  YEP Let's get the feds involved cuz we can't decide which number to use.  Let's gin up a third one we can track and tax better.

[Sniper]

I dunno, when I went to title and register my 64 300 in Arizona, it was a California car, they had to check the VIN.  The numbers stamped on the body never matched the VIN back then, the number stamped on the body was referred to as the SO number in Chrysler literature.  It's the same on my 65 Cuda.  So the inspector was like thinking we had a problem.  That was fun to deal with.

[Los_Control]

Really is sad that every state is different on the rules here.

Then there were different years that they actually titled vehicles .... eventually they all came around and put registrations on them so they could tax them.

Even today some cars over a certain age .... 10-15 years old do not get a title, the registration is considered the title in that state.

 

Then there is the human factor, when you show up with what information you have .... some people are reasonable and understanding, others have a mean streak in them and enjoy raking you over the coals.

Just no telling until you show up and find out for yourself.

 

[Eneto-55]

On 8/16/2024 at 6:22 PM, DonaldSmith said:

VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number.  So, a serial number is a VIN. 

 

(Please, not "VIN Number".  It's redundant, like "3 year anniversary" instead of "third anniversary. But don't get me started.)  

Or like "I'll get back to you as ASAP as possible".  (Perhaps that the most extreme redundancy I have ever heard. Talk about grinding my gears....)

[Eneto-55]

Obviously the manufacturer did not have the authority to mandate the Serial Number as main ID #, but it's quite clear in the original Service Manuals that Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto regarded the SN as the primary vehicle identifier.

 

Yes, a body could technically be 'replaced", but how often did that happen? I seriously doubt that ever occurred during the time these vehicles were fairly new (that is, before they became the object of restorations).  (Now perhaps in Brazil this was done during that period, as I have seen brand new bare vehicle bodies on pallets at auto dealerships in the capital city of Rondonia state. (One was a VW Kombi body, the other was a Fiat, shipped in to repair the car that was by US standards, totaled in an accident I was personally involved in.  P15s were, by the way, manufactured in Brazil. There is, or was, one in an auto museum in Forteleza, Ceara - I saw it there during the time we lived there, back in 1985 or early 86.)

[Dartgame]

My car was originally from Virginia, and the title used the engine number. Illinois secretary of state would not accept it, they demanded a police officer inspect, verify, and document the serial number and engine number were from the same car. I did so and they rejected that! I took the car to the local secretary of state office and had one of their officers verify and document, the officer was angry that they didn't accept the police officers statement . It got done, but it was a pain in the butt. 

Edited August 25 by Dartgame

[TodFitch]

10 minutes ago, Dartgame said:

My car was originally from Virginia, and the title used the engine number. Illinois secretary of state would not accept it, they demanded a police officer inspect, verify, and document the serial number and engine number were from the same car. I did so and they rejected that! I took the car to the local secretary of state office and had one of their officers verify and document, the officer was angry that they didn't accept the police officers statement . It got done, but it was a pain in the butt. 

My experience decades ago was far easier than that.

 

I purchased my car in Upstate New York and the paperwork used the engine number. In the mid-1970s I moved to Maryland. When I went into the DMV I had the NY paperwork, a second copy of the bill of sale (Maryland like to tax used cars being brought into the state no matter how long you had owned it), and my own hand written notes showing the serial number, engine number and body number. I asked the clerk if the Maryland paperwork could use the serial number instead of the engine number. She disappeared for about half an hour. When she came back she said the numbers I gave matched up and there would be no problem.

 

I assumed she just took a long coffee break, decided what answer she wanted to give and made one up. Later on when I found that Chrysler maintained build card records I wondered if they had actually called Chrysler up to verify the numbers.

 

Anyway, no one from Maryland ever verified the numbers and I was in and out of the DMV with only one visit and with the paperwork that used the serial number.

 

In the late 1970s when I moved to California the DMV had an inspector come out of the building to verify the numbers on the car. And California, at least at that time, did not charge sales tax on the car coming into the state if you had owned it for at least 6 months.