New guy here: 1949 Plymouth Super Deluxe

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Hi all,

Just joined this forum. About a week ago I bought a 1949 Super Deluxe. This is my first Chrysler. I'm sort of out of practice working on old cars and will probably have some super obvious and possibly dumb questions.

 

 So, about the car. I was told its been local to the town I live in for its entire life. It was owned by an old Navy guy who had been here on the old Navy Base in Alameda California. At some point the car was overhauled at the local community college who may or may not have also painted the car. Its a bit vague. But it runs and drives ok. Being a California car there is hardly any rust
 
 My primary hobby and background is in vintage electronics. Antique radios, TVs, amplifiers, stereos, etc. And while I do have some background in fixing cars and do all of the work on my fleet of vehicles which includes a 28 year old Tacoma, a 1955 Mercury Monterey and a newer Subaru I am not exactly a wizz when it comes to old cars.... so be easy on my general ignorance.

 So far I have done some really basic things.



1: It would NOT start on 6 volts and the owner had instead stuck in a 8 volt battery which in turn was causing the gauges to go all wacky.  I took off the cables, starter solenoid, associated wiring, etc. Cleaned that all up and now it will start and run properly on a 6 volt battery.

2: The plugs were heavily rusted to the head. Soaked the crap out of them with PB blaster and miraculously they all came out and got replaced.

3: Changed the coolant and engine oil. There is NO oil filter on the car. You can see where one could be fitted. This won't be a long-distance commuting car and I was told the filters on these are passive anyway so not super effective. So I figure change it every 500-1000 miles. There seems to be miles-long posts about oil. I put in what I've used in the Mercury forever. Plain 10W-40.

4: The car was FILTHY inside and out. I should have taken before pics. The interior was so bad I assumed it needed replacement. I am almost certain the upholstery is not original. But it was replaced probably a long time ago. It took several days of going to town on the inside and outside. 

 That's it so far. But there's a lot of other stuff that needs attention

 1: The parking brake is not working. From what I've read the parking brake doesn't work the same as other cars. Instead there's a brake shoe on the rear of the transmission. I need to get under there and see how badly worn that is. The only replacements I could find are insanely expensive. $125. I ordered the shop manual and it mentions gluing new liners to the shoe. Not sure I can actually do that. I need to change the transmission oil too. 

2: Need to check the brakes. Right now they work fine. The rear brakes apparently requires a massive puller to get the drums off. I am prepared to swallow my pride and have a local shop that works on old cars check them out and if they're worn, go ahead and replace.

3: It leaks oil. Not a lot with a few drops here and there. But its more than the Mercury. i'm hoping its something basic like the oil pan. I don't see anything around the top end or lower end of the engine. For now I keep a piece of cardboard under it.

4: Steering seems pretty loose. Car steers fine but there's definitely some wandering happening. I may get either a kit to rebuild the old one or find a remanufactured unit. I would assume the gears and whatnot in mine are simply worn. 

5: A lot of the electrics don't work. Head, tail, parking lights all work and so does the horn. Heater is non-op and in fact the whole heater core is gone. Not important as it doesn't get cold here. Radio doesn't work. That is ONE thing I am good at so it will get pulled. Almost certainly needs a rebuild and that means all new capacitors and possibly a replacement vibrator unit if the one in it is bad, which is not that often. Radio was built by Philco and uses Locktal tubes. If it was connected to the 8 volt battery the tubes might have had their filaments blown. No biggie as the museum I volunteer at has 50,000 tubes in storage.  I would like to add an audio input cable to run a small bluetooth receiver into the radio via the volume control. I do that a lot for table radios too.

 6: The not-so-great paint job.
 This is my least concern. The paint on it is.... ok. There's a few areas where there are some runs. Might try to sand and buff those out. Otherwise it looks ok. 

Otherwise...  The engine and transmission so far seem generally fine. Good compression, no oil usage. I had never driven a 3 on the tree until now. After a week I'm getting the hang of it and it shifts fairly easily.  The carb seems to weep gas when running. Will probably order a gasket kit for it in the future. Or just let it weep as its not really hurting anything.

 Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. I'll use this area to show progress and ask questions

Edited July 23 by 1949plymouthdeluxe

[p15-1948]

Nice looking Special Deluxe

[hi_volt]

Very nice car.  Welcome to the forums.  Hard to believe your car was as dirty as you described based on your posted photos.  Nice job cleaning it up.  I'm into vintage electronics as well and was an electronic engineer before I retired last December.  Your radio will likely need a re-cap and might also have some out of tolerance resistors.  I'm sure you're familiar with the routine.

 

I'm more familiar with the '46-'48 Plymouths than the later models.  If your parking brake is the same as the ones for the P15 models, it clamps around the drive shaft just behind the transmission with shoes similar to your drum brakes.

 

Another thing to note is that Mopar cars of the era, at least through 1948, used left hand threads on the passenger side wheel lugs.  You'll need to check for your year to see if that's still the case.

 

I would take a closer look at your carburetor and fix the weeping.  Depending on where the weep is located, it might be due to a stuck float or bad gaskets, and if there's a vacuum leak it could cause the engine to run too lean.

 

Keep us updated on your progress.

Edited July 23 by hi_volt

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Quote

Your radio will likely need a re-cap and might also have some out of tolerance resistors.  I'm sure you're familiar with the routine.

That's more or less a given. I'm 100% certain the electrolytics are totally shot as well as all of the paper caps.  Interesting that car radios are a LOT better than the ordinary table top sets. Every once in awhile our museum gets a console radio with a re-purposed car radio. Made during the war when manufactures wern't allowed to manufacture new consumer goods so they instead used up all of the car radios intended for cars that were also not built. While the consoles look dumb with what is obviously a car radio, they are much more sensitive because of all of the shielding they came with to deal with being inside a metal car.

[61spit]

Great looking car! Have fun with the project and keep us posted as you go along.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

1: It would NOT start on 6 volts and the owner had instead stuck in a 8 volt battery which in turn was causing the gauges to go all wacky.  I took off the cables, starter solenoid, associated wiring, etc. Cleaned that all up and now it will start and run properly on a 6 volt battery.

 

I have seen many 6v cars using battery cables appropriate to a 12v car, too small.  Add in some crusty connections and it's problematic.  Rockauto sells new battery cables of the right size if you want to go with new, yours look to be 6v cables though,

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

2: The plugs were heavily rusted to the head. Soaked the crap out of them with PB blaster and miraculously they all came out and got replaced.

 

I usually put a thin coat of antisieze on them.

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

3: Changed the coolant and engine oil. There is NO oil filter on the car. You can see where one could be fitted. This won't be a long-distance commuting car and I was told the filters on these are passive anyway so not super effective. So I figure change it every 500-1000 miles.

 

It's a bypass filter, they work, after a fashion.  Some have modified the oiling system to use a full time filter like on modern cars.

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

 1: The parking brake is not working. From what I've read the parking brake doesn't work the same as other cars. Instead there's a brake shoe on the rear of the transmission.

 

Common setup back in that era.  Probably needs adjusting, the manual should help.

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

2: Need to check the brakes. Right now they work fine. The rear brakes apparently requires a massive puller to get the drums off. I am prepared to swallow my pride and have a local shop that works on old cars check them out and if they're worn, go ahead and replace.

 

The brakes need regular adjusting, not knowing how long it's been since then might be a good idea to do that.  The puller is readily available and not too expensive.  Some have been able to loosen the axle nut a couple thread, put the cotter pin back in and drive it around the block a few times to pop them loose.  I have never had 100% success with that.

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

3: It leaks oil. Not a lot with a few drops here and there.

 

They do that, the road draft tube is a source.

 

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

4: Steering seems pretty loose. Car steers fine but there's definitely some wandering happening. I may get either a kit to rebuild the old one or find a remanufactured unit. I would assume the gears and whatnot in mine are simply worn. 

 

If you are use to rack and pinion steering, most modern cars, it will always feel loose.  Keith, on this site, has a pretty good write up on what he did to rebuild his, a video too I believe,  Not likely to find a reman though, the steering column shaft is one piece all the way thru the box.

 

I'd change the trans and diff fluid, so I start from a known point.  Probably flush the brake system too, I have a post here detailing a power bleeder I got from Motive that makes it a snap,

 

Nice looking ride.  Those cars are a lot more maintenance intensive than newer ones.  You will have dozens and dozens of grease fittings to lubricate.  I bought a cordless grease gun just for that. 

 

The site has a lot of info, the search function isn't the best though.  Poke around, read up, ask away.

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Quote

Nice looking ride.  Those cars are a lot more maintenance intensive than newer ones.  You will have dozens and dozens of grease fittings to lubricate.  I bought a cordless grease gun just for that. 

Thanks. Yes, this is what its like on my Mercury. Zillions of grease fittings. I use red synthetic grease for all of it. I have not done this one yet. But I got a better jack and set of jack stands yesterday so I can get under there without the car falling on me. 

 

Quote

Some have been able to loosen the axle nut a couple thread, put the cotter pin back in and drive it around the block a few times to pop them loose.  I have never had 100% success with that.

 Heard about that too. But... unless I'm looking in the wrong places the cost of replacement drums for the rear are $400+ and I would be worried about cracking the old drums doing that.  The adjusters on this looks easier than the Mercury I have where you have to adjust through a little hole and then spin a star nut with a screwdriver. That is a pain.

 

Quote

They do that, the road draft tube is a source.

Makes sense. It only leaks right after its been driven a bit. A few drops. I have a metal sheet I stuck under it. 

[Jerry Roberts]

There might not be anything wrong with your steering box . There are several other steering components that wear , Nice looking car . 

[moparfun]

Welcome, very nice ride

[desoto1939]

You had mentioned that the 49 Ply, which is a very nice, does not have an oil filter. The ones that were installed at that time are a by-Pass filter. These is a plug along the edge of the oil galley that permits oil to flow upto the filter and then return to the oil pan. 

 

You stated that you are using 10W40 oil.  10w-40 is a detergent oil and would have been use when the car has an oil filter and multiweight oils are also a detergent oil.

 

Just wanted to let you know that by using the 10w-40 oil there isa good possibility that the oil in the pan might have sludge built up over the years and since it did not have any oil filter on the car if the sludge get lose then you have a possibility to getting sludge pushed through the engine block and then causing other issues.

 

I would recommend that you use a straight weight 30 motor oil. This is what was used back when these cars were produced and is not a multi-weight oil that is also a detergent oil.  Do some reading on the Plymouth and also purchase a service manual and a parts manual for this car. The service manual will provide a lot of informatio and how to maintain the car and the parts manual is important when looking for specific 49 parts.

Welcome to the forum and ask alot of questions.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, desoto1939 said:

I would recommend that you use a straight weight 30 motor oil. This is what was used back when these cars were produced and is not a multi-weight oil that is also a detergent oil.

 

Sae 30 is available in detergent and non-detergent varieties with the non detergent variety most commonly found for compressor duty, DO NOT use that one. make sure it is for engine use.

 

There is no "weight" in oil designation the W refers to the winter or cold viscosity rating.  https://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-does-the-w-mean-in-oil/

 

Both of these points I discussed with my son last oil change we did.  We were discussing the differences in oil requirement between his BMW and my 51, while at Walmart looking for the proper oil for his ride. 

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Thanks for the responses so far.  I've never had an issue with using 10W-40 in my other classic ride in the past 20+ years. I don't think it matters all that much when it comes to these older engines. I used to be in an antique engine and tractor club and we generically used that or 10W-30 ( whatever was on sale ) and no problem. Its oil, it lubricates things.  I use 10-40 because it doesn't get cold here.

 As far as the steering? My other car is also non-power steering. But its a huge car compared to this one. The steering on the Plymouth definitely has more play. Maybe I'm not used to it. Its drivable. So maybe I can learn to live with it.

 Something else I forgot is I'd like to add an overflow tank for the coolant. I wasn't thinking and when I changed it I filled to the top of the tank which meant a lot came shooting out of the metal tube to the street until it leveled out. I have one on the Mercury and like it as I can tell what the coolant level is. I have a generic tank and will install later today.

[Young Ed]

What Rich mentioned is certainly possible but I would think highly unlikely that the engine hasn't had detergent oil in it if it's had even infrequent use in the last few decades. That being said I'd still be adding an oil filter if it was mine.

[DeS-11]

Welcome; I'm also fairly new to the site, and to these cars (I just got mine a few weeks ago, and have been learning as I go and doing things little by little). I likewise have interest in old radios, amps, and TVs, although I've never completely restored any from top to bottom--only done minor repairs as needed to keep them operating. Your car looks great; the two-door sedan body style is definitely an attractive one.

[61spit]

7 hours ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

At some point the car was overhauled at the local community college who may or may not have also painted the car. Its a bit vague. But it runs and drives ok. Being a California car there is hardly any rust

Do you know when it was overhauled? It could be that it has had detergent oil in it since that time and not that many miles on it since then. Maybe not much build up that could come loose.

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

I think it was overhauled within the last 5 years. But I don't think its been driven that much at all since then. I pulled the old plugs yesterday and they looked damned near new. So far everything seems to come loose sort of easily which also alludes to a fresher overhaul. When I drained the old oil it came out pretty dirty but no "chunks" or anything. Drain plug had nothing accumulated either. Same with the radiator coolant. It looked new. So I'm not too worried about the oil. I repaired lawn mowers on the side for awhile and the you wouldn't believe the horribly abused engines that came with with crap in the crank cases. Never used anything other than WalMart 10W-30 in all of em'

[andyd]

Welcome aboard the best Mopar site, not sure re the 1949 cars but the steering box has rubber isolators between it and the frame and on the outside between the mounting plate and the frame.....these isolators become very soft or hard depending on your luck.............lol.......and allow the steering box to move more than it should.........if you find replacements it is possible to replace them without removing the steering box......main thing is to make sure to not loose the small "washers" that locate around the molded areas on the isolators.........regards from Oztralia......thats a nice looking car..........andyd

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Thanks a lot Andy. I haven't really looked into the steering box quite yet. There's an awful lot of stuff on the car that's original. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's rubber bet started deteriorated. Its very dry where I live and so things like rubber really dry out and harden up. 

 

  I got some better jacks and went under the car to check out the parking brake contraption at the rear of the transmission. Half of the brake liner is missing. So it's not doing anything. So I'll need to order a replacement and unfortunately they're not exactly cheap. $125. But I guess that's how it has to be. I heard there's an old fashioned method of riveting in new liners but I don't have a riveting machine or anything like that. And I assume that these brake liners will last forever because the one that's on it probably came with the car. 

 

  While I was under there I was able to more easily get at the drain and fill plugs on the transmission. I don't think the oil has been changed forever because the drain bolt was covered in tons and tons of ancient grease and I had to heat it up to get it loose. What poured out was a deep Amber looking oil. I wouldn't doubt that oil has been in there for decades.  I let that drain out of there for a few hours and drip dry. As usual I made a huge mess getting the new stuff in. I hate changing transmission grease more than anything. 

 

The car still starts fine on 6 volts and I took it around the neighborhood a bit. It was in the '80s today and it's cars like these that makes you really grateful for modern air conditioning because even with all the vents and windows open it was hotter than hell in there. Maybe I'll get some cheesy little battery powered fan that can plug into the cigarette lighter

Edited July 24 by 1949plymouthdeluxe

[9 foot box]

   Buy a Service Manual, the proper way to tighten the steering is to remove gasket material at the end cap first, for major adjustment to the worm gear. Then tighten the cross shaft for free movement for minor adjustment. The best manuals are used and have a grain type cover.

 

[andyd]

Re the parking brake, its essentially just a "drum brake" mounted on the driveshaft instead of inside the rear wheel brakes........a small version of what most large trucks still use, which can give a suggestion as to where to get it fixed.........you mention that half the brake liner is missing.......if its just the actual brake lining but the 2 brake shoes are still there then they can be relined with new material and after installation and adjustment the parking brake will work as good as new.....hopefully......depending on whether the car has an internal expanding or external contracting style of parking or handbrake the disassembly will be slightly different..........

............if its an internal expanding type then to pull apart without having a hand brake to hold the driveline use some sort of lever/large screwdriver to wedge between the 4 bolts and against the frame then undo the 4 bolts on the front & rear of the driveshaft, remove it and while keeping the bolts from turning undo the large centre bolt, remove the brake drum then the brake shoes and get relined....

............if its an external contracting style then take note of where everything attaches, lever/wedge the drum to stop it turning then disassemble, get shoes relined and reassemble

............if missing a complete brake shoe rather than just the brake lining on one shoe then I'd suggest contacting places like Andy Bernbaums or other Mopar retailers........hope this helps a bit.......just checked US Ebay...Kanter has a set of parking brake shoes to suit 49 Plymouth listed for $75.........regards, andyd .....andyd         

Edited July 24 by andyd
more info.

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Thanks Andy,

The shoe is still there and its missing half of the liner. So- stupid question: Do brake shops still glue in or attach new shoes or is this something you guys do yourselves?  Oh- I see you're in Australia so not sure what happens there as far a what I just asked. I need to take some pictures of it so I can remember how it goes back together.

 

Quote

 Buy a Service Manual

I bought one that looks like the one you have except its a re-print. Even has old vintage ads in it.

[Young Ed]

50 minutes ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

Thanks Andy,

The shoe is still there and its missing half of the liner. So- stupid question: Do brake shops still glue in or attach new shoes or is this something you guys do yourselves?  

Both. There are shops that will do it or you can buy the supplies. The lining is riveted on and it pretty straight forward to do. You will need to countersink the rivet holes a little. I get my supplies from brake and equipment warehouse here in Minneapolis. They will also do mail-order for either supplies or reline yours if you can't find something local. 

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

After looking at the cost of the tools and lining material it wasn't that much cheaper than to just buy a new one, which I did. The one on there looks like its original so at least the new one should last forever. 

[Young Ed]

41 minutes ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

After looking at the cost of the tools and lining material it wasn't that much cheaper than to just buy a new one, which I did. The one on there looks like its original so at least the new one should last forever. 

Yes it should as long as you don't forget to release it before driving. That's what kills these

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Quote

Yes it should as long as you don't forget to release it before driving. That's what kills these

 

I have to make a confession. That is what I did. I accidentally drove for a mile with it on. Maybe it was already worn out. I just remember smelling burning breaks and looking down and seeing the ebrake was still on. CRAP!~ Won't make that mistake again....