TIG vs MIG - Patching Holes

[Bob Riding]

After my change in plans from running a rebuilt Chrysler 360 in my '52 Suburban to a stock rebuilt 230, I was left with a number of holes in the firewall (that I had made) to help the V8 to fit. My friend Ryan Ballis, who does mobile welding for his livelihood, was able to use TIG to patch them up.

 

We cut the identical firewall section from my parts wagon and he trimmed it to fit then stitched it up. TIG is much different from MIG in that it's quiet (no bacon frying) and slower. The shielding gas is pure argon, and there is no wire feed from the tool, you manually feed it in with your left hand. TIG, which stands for Tungsten Inert Gas, uses a thin pointed tungsten stylus. It's preferred for body panel and sheet metal repairs because of it's lower heat that won't blow through the metal, like MIG can. Very interesting watching Ryan's technique as we could hold a discussion while he worked. 

[Booger]

Nice work. For sure TIG is a better process but not everybody has the room to keep and drag around big argon bottles or the investment costs. For the hobbyist (me) a simple and compact wirefeed is just fine for small jobs. Make sure you have a dedicated 20 amp service for your little MIG welder or you wont get far

[Bob Riding]

Yes, Ryan does a great job. He has purchased smaller bottles for easier transport. I like to support local small businesses (and friends).

[SteveR]

Down at work, we had a new guy start. He was from Rumania and said he knew how to TIG weld. We said have a go. Without gloves, he proceeded. It wasn't long when he got the wire in the tungsten arch and boy what a welp he made. He jumped into the air and threw the wire across the room. We laughed at him and then said, 'You don't know how to weld do you'? With a smile on his face, he said, 'No'.

[OUTFXD]

Well... MIGs are great air superiority fighters, and can even make a passible Multi-role fighter.  However they are **** at holding car parts together.

 

I would have to follow the crowd and go with TIG welding.

[Sam Buchanan]

MIG is pretty much the norm for body work since it is fast and fairly tolerant of less then perfect technique. About twenty years ago I purchased a small, 110v MIG with a small argon bottle and it is one of the most useful tools in the shop even though I had no previous welding experience. Body rust repair, bracket fabrication, exhaust repair--it seems to be more valuable as time goes on and I realize how much it can be used. My technique has improved especially after learning gas welding.

 

I say all that to say this.......I highly recommend the hobbyist who is semi-serious about repair and wants to equip the shop to purchase a MIG welder. Don't bother with the gasless flux welder, the welder with an argon bottle yields far cleaner welds. You'll be surprised at how often you'll use it. 

Edited February 7 by Sam Buchanan

[Booger]

Good points Sam. Inert gas methods are prefered for sheetmetal applications. And your oxy-ace set up can work but it tends to warp easily so not recommended. You can get by with a braze weld which requires less heat otherwise your burning through. With all process make sure your work is clean and fitted. 

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

I say all that to say this.......I highly recommend the hobbyist who is semi-serious about repair and wants to equip the shop to purchase a MIG welder. Don't bother with the gasless flux welder, the welder with an argon bottle yields far cleaner welds. You'll be surprised at how often you'll use it. 

I gave the exact same advice a couple years ago.

A: Tig is the cats meow especially with automotive sheet metal .... even more so with modern vehicles and the thinner metals used. Amazing to watch a youtube video of a dude tig welding aluminum beer cans together and end up with a beautiful weld.

 

B: Dont mess with fluxcore welders for sheet metal ... get a mig welder.

 

Then I spent a couple years with my 220/110 multi process welder. Is capable of tig, mig, fluxcore, stick welding.

I have never bought the equipment to tig weld with it and never tried stick ..... I only have welded mig & fluxcore.

 

Mig is a really nice clean weld, if I did a lot of welding I would only use mig.

 

Fluxcore just leaves a brown soot over the weld & creates little tiny BB's and the weld looks disgusting.

I use a 4" grinder with a wire brush cup wheel on it, ..... 2 seconds running it over your weld and it is clean and is a decent weld.

 

Just saying, when I did fluxcore welding on my truck I could do the new floor because it would be all seam sealed & covered, nobody will see it.

I also used fluxcore to do the body patch in the back of the cab, when finished and with the bed installed .... nobody will ever see it.

 

I did have a 1/2 bottle of gas I saved to mig weld the patches on the front fenders, no way to hide them ..... IMHO it was just too much trouble to switch the welder over to gas and just did them with fluxcore and very pleased with the final product.

 

I think the main point I wanted to make, I think fluxcore is fine for the home hobbyist that does not weld for a living.

I think the quality of the welder giving you control for heat & wire speed is crucial. The cheap Harbor freight fluxcore gives you low/med/high settings ... you just work around those settings.

While a better machine will have dials that you can dial it in and set it for exactly what you want. ..... Still a dirty weld and a extra step to clean it .... but a good weld.

 

Dealing with gas bottles is a extra step and expense also .... I have $200 tied up in my used bottle, that now needs to be re-certified.  Think it is just under $100 last time I filled it .... Is a week turn around for me to drop it off and send it out to be filled then pick it up the next week.

 

I think if a guy spends a little bit more for a multi process welder, you will have all the options available and find you can dial in and fluxcore sheet metal fine and not mess with gas bottles. ...... My experience spending 3 years teaching myself to weld.

[Eneto-55]

Should I admit that the only time I welded sheet metal I used a gas torch and bailing wire?

[Dave72dt]

I've done the gas and baling wire a few times, patched up a Model A back in '75 or 6 with it, used brazing rod when you had to apply the flux to the rod yourself, leaded a few seams, brazed cast iron, stick welded exhaust pipes and sheet metal, using what I had available to do the job at hand and moved up to MIG over 30 years ago.  Gas torch and stick welders are long gone although I still have access to them and as much as I would like a TIG setup, I no longer do enough welding or have the space to justify the purchase.

[Los_Control]

Looks at @Eneto-55 accusingly and wonders if they did the welding on my rear fenders     ???

 

Years ago before mig welders came out to the average user, thats just the way it was done .... My truck rear fenders have a few repairs done that way in the past.

I need to go over those past repairs before paint.

15 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

I would like a TIG setup, I no longer do enough welding or have the space to justify the purchase.

Last I checked, ..... I paid $750 for my 190 MP welder .... was on sale from $1300 as it was a display model. ..... $500 more for the tig hoses & foot control pedal for the wire.

It is more welder then I need, .... same time buying gas bottles and filling them I have around $500 into that over a couple years.  ..... I'm pretty happy doing flux welding and not have to mess with gas If I can get away with it.

 

Amazing how often a guy will use the welder if they have it available .... Once my truck is finished I wonder how often I will continue to use it.

[harmony]

Personally, I use flux core.  Granted it's a little more difficult once you get down to something thinner than body steel.  But I just switch from .035 to .025 and make the adjustments on the mig welder.  As for body steel and thinner gauge steel, I use it like a spot welder and keep going back and forth filling in the gaps.  I don't want the added expense (and hassle of the exchange process) of a gas bottle, because the welder may sit for a month or so not even being used.  Plus I find it difficult to see around that shield anyways.  I never use a shield with flux core, plus I can turn on a fan with the flux core to blow away the fumes without the air effecting the weld.    I believe it just takes practice to lay down a bead or multiple spots without the "crater effect" when using flux core. 

 

There is a guy in Canada (down east) that has a YouTube channel called Fitzee's Fabrications. He's one hell of a body man and fabricator.  He's got some pretty cool techniques.  If I remember correctly, he only uses mig.  

Edited February 8 by harmony

[Eneto-55]

12 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Looks at @Eneto-55 accusingly and wonders if they did the welding on my rear fenders     ???

While it WAS in Texas, you can "mark yourself safe" from that. 

(It was a 68 Dodge Polara station wagon that I converted into an enclosed trailer, in 82.  But I sold it the following Summer to a Canadian who used it to move back home. Doubt if it ever made it back to Texas.)

[Bob Riding]

And the finished patchwork of holes is solid again!

[Booger]

16 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

Should I admit that the only time I welded sheet metal I used a gas torch and bailing wire?

Dont throw those wire old coat hangers away. 

[Sam Buchanan]

21 hours ago, Booger said:

Good points Sam. Inert gas methods are prefered for sheetmetal applications. And your oxy-ace set up can work but it tends to warp easily so not recommended. You can get by with a braze weld which requires less heat otherwise your burning through. With all process make sure your work is clean and fitted. 

 

I learned gas welding so I could build an aircraft fuselage. The oxy-ace is only used on 4130 steel since it's best the joints are normalized with slow cooling. I use MIG with argon on everything else.

 

 

 

[61spit]

What did you build? I have restored a few old tube and fabric aircraft over the years. A 1946 Cub, 1953 Tri-Pacer, 1959 Tri-Pacer and 1 metal - Cessna Aerobat. Never did any welding on any of them. A great art to watch someone skilled at it. Sorry, a bit off topic.

[Sam Buchanan]

text deleted

Edited February 8 by Sam Buchanan

[Sam Buchanan]

45 minutes ago, 61spit said:

What did you build? I have restored a few old tube and fabric aircraft over the years. A 1946 Cub, 1953 Tri-Pacer, 1959 Tri-Pacer and 1 metal - Cessna Aerobat. Never did any welding on any of them. A great art to watch someone skilled at it. Sorry, a bit off topic.

 

 

This was a Legal Eagle, a very light single-place. It was sort of an impulse build, I wanted to learn oxy-ace, gave me an excuse to build a fun little airplane.  

 

Below is the first page of the feature article I wrote about building my Eagle in KitPlanes magazine.

 

[61spit]

Looks like it turned out well. A published article as well. Excellent!

[Booger]

Holy crap that is so cool! Hats off!

Dont forget when your in the neighborhood grab those metal bedframes on the curb. Good free steel

[Los_Control]

19 minutes ago, Booger said:

grab those metal bedframes on the curb. Good free steel

I sure wish I never did that before 

 

I used free bed frames for the angle iron on the bedsides.

They are attached and they are staying .... I just wish I knew how hard the steel was before I installed them.

I burned through several drill bits, sharpen them many times and they are now 2" shorter .... I never did drill a hole in the metal.

I figure I need at least 4 holes in each side to mount to the wood ... factory had 7 holes.

The only way I was finally able to drill holes in them is using my mini die grinder with a pointed carbide bit.

Good metal to weld with, terrible metal to work with .... They make great braces .... just as long as you do not need holes it is good metal.

 

 

[Booger]

Use that chop saw to cut. Obviously 

Good steel

[harmony]

17 hours ago, Booger said:

Holy crap that is so cool! Hats off!

Dont forget when your in the neighborhood grab those metal bedframes on the curb. Good free steel

I'm constantly looking for those bed frames on a front lawn with that beautiful sign that says FREE.  I'm guessing that I have about half a dozen in my stock bin at any given time.   I've built countless tools with those bedframe rails.