Hard steer

[jgreg53]

Is there any one alignment adjustments that if out would make my 48 hard steering to the right?

[jgreg53]

Is there any one alignment adjustments that if out would make my 48 hard steering to the right?

[Ivan_B]

If the car ain't going straight, check the toe. But this could also be not alignment-related at all. First, swap the wheels from left to right and see if anything changes

 

Later: oh sorry, I misread. If it's hard to steer, check the toe and camber at the front. Also, lift the front and see if the steering wheel rotates with ease and to the same number of turns both ways.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Doug&Deb]

Is it pulling to one side or hard to turn to one side? I’m wondering if you have a brake hanging up?

[soth122003]

I think we need a bit more info about the problem itself. Is it harder than the left steer? Does it not want to turn to the right? 

 

From just your post, the only thing That might be an adjustment would be toe in on the right wheel, but it would have to be pretty noticeable just looking at the front end. More likely would be a mechanical fault. dragging brake on the left, which would lead the car to track left when driving, If it doesn't track left when driving, but drive straight, I would check   for frozen/stiff tie rod ends, bent tie rod shaft, stuck king pin. 

 

Jack the front end up and have someone turn the wheel while you check the tie rods, king pins, and steering knuckle for damage and proper operation.

 

Joe Lee

 

 

[jgreg53]

Doug and Deb I just recently adjusted the brakes. There right . It was hard to turn right before that.  When turning right at a stand still I'm pulling myself off the seat and the thing squeaks through the steering rod like something is in a bind.

 

[Ulu]

When I bought my P15 it had this problem that it steered fine in One Direction but in the other direction you could not steer unless you were going very slow or there was basically no load.

 

It turns out that at some point someone had given it into a curb and smashed the roller bearings on one side of the worm gear in the steering box. It wasn’t just hard. At some point it would literally lock up during the turn, and if you don’t let your foot off the gas you couldn’t turn it any further.

 

Eventually I found a solid steering gear in a junkyard for $100, which pleased me enormously.

 

When I first took it apart, I had no way to repair that steering  correctly, so I smoothed out the rough bearing surfaces and replaced all the rollers with a hard plastic bushing. This still didn’t work very well, but it worked better, and I was able to drive the car for two years like this by being careful.

 

But it was never safe and I would advise nobody to do that.

 

One other thing that makes a steering gear hard to steer in one direction, but easy to steer and another, is if you get the sector off the center of the worm when the wheels are pointed straight ahead.

 

The steering ratio varies as you turn the wheel, and at the very center of the worm you have plenty of leverage, but as it gets further towards the steering lock in either direction it takes more effort to turn the wheel.

 

With a power steering car you basically could not notice this very easily but on a manual steering car it is very noticeable. I first discovered this on my friends Mustang when he had changed the steering gear, but had a tie rod too short on one side and two long on the other.

 

He just put the wheels straight ahead and took the steering wheel off and put it back on straight!

 

You can’t do that with my Plymouth because it has a fat spline. The steering wheel only fits one way and IIRC the Pitman arm only fits one way. It also has a fat spline. On the mustang it could go anywhere. The splines were all equal.

 

Anyhow the bottom line was that he could turn it easily in one direction but it would not go as far in the other direction and was difficult to turn.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Ulu

[Ivan_B]

14 minutes ago, Ulu said:

He just put the wheels straight ahead and took the steering wheel off and put it back on straight!

If I recall the service manual correctly, you should not do that. The steering box should be disconnected from the wheels and centered on its own, with the wheels, then, connected in the straight-ahead direction.

[Hickory]

I agree see how it steers when jacked up. Another easy check is first take the tie rod on the drivers side off and check it with the steering wheel then take the drag link off the drivers spindle and check it again and then jack it up and turn each wheel by hand. That way you separate each side and the gear box and you should be able to tell what is binding.

[9 foot box]

   The Service Manual says that you can do some repairs to the steering, without removing the column. I would suspect that the caged bearing at the worm gear is binding. Or you took out too much gasket on the major adjustment. My repair was on my 41 WC, so I removed the column. You will need pitman arm and steering wheel pullers. Keith might have a You Tube video of a repair. Rick D.

[kencombs]

It's hard to say impossible to say from the scant information we have and no 'feel'.    IMO, first issue to resolve is it a mechanical bind in the box, linkage or kingpins?   To do that I'd put it on stands and disconnect the tie rod ends at the spindles and check them for bind.  The feel of each joint to ascertain if they are free to move.   Then move on the box itself.  If you still feel resistance with the linkage removed the box needs to be inspected.

 

OTOH if it 'feels' like something besides mechanical binding, like feedback resistance when turning at speed, bent spindles with excess camber and/or toe way out of spec on one side can do that.

 

That's what I referred to in my first sentence, we can't feel the things you do.

 

Maybe a little more detail might help.

[jgreg53]

I know the only things that  you can change are toe in or out and camber. Caster is built in.

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, jgreg53 said:

I know the only things that  you can change are toe in or out and camber. Caster is built in.

AFAIK all three are adjustable on the cars.  Trucks with solid axle must be bent to set camber, but caster is set with shims and toe with the tie rods. 

[Ulu]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:53 AM, Ivan_B said:

If I recall the service manual correctly, you should not do that. The steering box should be disconnected from the wheels and centered on its own, with the wheels, then, connected in the straight-ahead direction.

Well the guy that owned that car had probably never read a service manual in his life. At least not pertaining to suspension and steering alignment.

[jgreg53]

I've got her in the garage and jacked up. Going to be a busy week. I'll get in it later.

[Bob Ritter]

There were  a lot of good things mention. But the one thing I would check is the tire pressure.

[jgreg53]

I've got the steering box in the vice. The bearings and races have play in them. These are relatively new from my last rebuild. When  I put it all together there's up and down movement . The large race is below flush a good quarter inch. I can make it flush with a flat washer. With it put together that way there is resistance with the wheels centered.  When all the way left or right the clearance opens up as it should. There's no play in the steering with the box in the vice.  Ideas?  When I was taking the box out, I found that whoever put it back together the last time, the shade tree mechanic  forgot or lost the large lock washer on the sector. Don't  know if it means anything but it happened.

Edited December 1, 2023 by jgreg53

[9 foot box]

   The tapered ends of your worm gear are too worn down for the bearings to seat in the races. I built up my ends by welding and some lathe work. The lower bearing race now extends .040, and gaskets used for bearing pre-load. Then I adjusted the cross shaft. I packed the box with corn head grease. I intend to contact Powerbrakex-change.com, 800 580-5729, they say that they specialize in Gemmer boxes. The web site shows a rebuilt 40 Plymouth box, and other vintage vehicles, so I have high hopes of a proper repair if I don’t find a replacement steering box for my 41WC.