'50 1 Ton Tire Woes

[buck0wens]

I just bought a b2d in pretty good shape but she needs new tires all around to get her home. I only have 4 rims on the dually ... lord knows where the other 2 are but I won't be getting them with the truck. I took the tires to a local tire shop. They told me to get tubes and flaps and they'd sell me tires and install them. I got everything there and they tried to put on some new 265/75/16s on (there were 285/75/16s on them) but they ended up being too wide in the middle (from what I can tell) so they decided they don't want to work on them after many failed attempts. They did get the lock rings and the old tires off so that was probably the worst of it anyway right? So now I'm calling around and everyone is giving me the run-around. I need to get the truck off the guy's property asap. I have a lot of mechanical experience and even worked a tire machine 8 hours a day at a junkyard 30 years ago ago but I've never worked on rims like this before. I've read about people on here are doing it themselves and I've seen a couple youtube vids and it looks doable with a clip on chuck and some chains. 

 

So here's my questions ... I'd really appreciate any insights.

 

1. I only have 4 rims. Will I be able to easily find another 2 matching dually rims for a decent price? If I can't I was thinking I might try to just change them all out and dodge the locking rim problem all together.

 

2. Are there readily available steel rims that look somewhat like the originals ... like off a newer old dodge 1 ton or something. The pattern appears to be 6 on 7" (or 7.5" maybe?) and the center hole is huge so I'm not too optimistic about this but I thought I'd ask.

 

3. Is this something I can tackle myself. I can get some 7x16 tires ( I was looking at these https://simpletire.com/brands/deestone-tires/d506#v=1&tireSize=7.00-null-16&mpn=ds1262 ) and slap in the tubes and flaps, chain 'em up or take them to my brother-in-law's (who has a cage), install the rings, and see what happens but I don't want to take up an bunch of time and money and end up having to take them to someone anyway. I know the risks and I'd take all the precautions (my father-in-law has 1/2 a thumb because of a tire accident).

 

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice or expertise you can throw my way. Looking forward to getting the old girl to her new home.

[Los_Control]

My advise would be to take them to a proper Tire shop that deals with truck tires. .... A Truck stop on the freeway off ramp.

 

Your wheels look fine in your picture .... they need to be inspected by a professional when swapping tires. .... A pro would not put together a damaged, bent, rusted unsafe wheel. It could cost them their life.

 

The clowns that attempted to install tires .... seems obvious they had no experience with split rims.... simply is not a big deal.

 

I think getting tires installed on your wheels will be the quickest, fastest way out .... A future wheel swap is ok but probably not quick.

[P15-D24]

Again, they are not split rims, they are lock ring rims. Most automotive tire shops don't know the difference. As Los says go to a truck tire shop. They deal with this kind of rim all the time. You will need flaps and tubes.  Size is pretty unique, I don't think you will find a easy more modern rim to swap. Stockton Wheel makes a updated replacement but big $$$$. as Los mentioned if they are in good shape it shouldn't be a big deal.  You also might want to consider bias ply as finding the narrow size will be easier. I have 225x16 on my B1C and I wish I had gone with 215 instead. 265 are overkill. Stock bias is like a 6.00 or 6.50 which will crossover to 205 or 215 radial. Check the tire section in this page. https://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/enhancements.html/. WIth no power steering those big wide radials will be tough to steer at lower speeds. 

[buck0wens]

LOL I literally had some guy say "OH, you got the widow makers huh?" I explained they were lock ring rims not split rims but he acted like I was the one that didn't know what I was talking about and blew me off?. I think I'm going to buy some tires and just drive around with everything until someone says yes LOL.

 

Thanks for the info!

[Bobacuda]

I fixed lots of flats on those in my youth. The most dangerous seemed to always be the rims that had a “small” ring that held the larger ring to the rest of the rim and the one that truly split the rim close to the middle. Those were almost always on Chevys.
 

Dodge, International and Fords had a large split ring that held the tire to the rim - probably what yours is.  Most semi trucks used this type. 
 

We used a 10 lb duckbill hammer, a 10 lb sledge hammer, a couple of spoons, lots of rubber lube and labor to take them apart. We would set a leg of the lift on top, ring side down, when airing it up in case it blew apart- never happened where I worked.  If you have never done it, or watched and learned, don’t try it yourself. 
 

Check places that work on semi truck and construction machinery tires. They may not have the tires, but they will have the tools and the know how. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Bobacuda

[ggdad1951]

You are not neccesarily missing 2 wheels.  One ton trucks didn't ALWAYS have dual wheels, the axle is just set up that way (see below).  As for finding a new rim for them...good luck.  I never did find a good alternative that wasn't insane.  And yes, a good COMMERCIAL truck tire place should have no problem with your rims if they aren't idiots about what they really are.  Just know most of the younger kids have no real clue about older tires and will opt for the "widow maker" call.

[JBNeal]

ADDITIONAL information - split lock ring tire installation

[Bobacuda]

Another thought. When I rebuilt  my B4B, the 16” rims were rotted. Since I wanted to use my original hub caps, I had “The Wheelsmith” remove the centers from my wheels and put the old centers in new barrels.  I can run tubeless tires now. Maybe this would work for you. 
 

Cost me $800. That was for 4 wheels - shipping, stripping, old barrel removal, new barrels put on, trued and balanced, powder coated and shipped back. Shipping was a big cost (TX to CA and back to TX).

Edited November 15, 2022 by Bobacuda

[buck0wens]

Thanks for all the advice guys ... I really do appreciate it. After another frustrating day, I went ahead and ordered some shiny new 195/75-16 radials and I'm going to give it a shot myself. I can clean and assemble them here and take them over to my bro in law's tire cage to do the deed . Since I don't have a spare, no hope for one near term, and all the tire guys seem to be scared cowards, I'm thinking this is going to be a skill that I should have in my bag anyway.

 

I really do just need to get the truck out of this guy's yard right now but we'll see where I go with this. $800 doesn't sound unreasonable for a nice set of rims so I'll definitely keep the wheel smith in mind.

 

I do think these used to be dual wheels because some of the countersinks on the lug holes of the back rims are going the wrong way (and I see the very beginnings of a cracks on the raised part YIKES!) ... or maybe they just all shipped that way.

 

I'll post back on my progress. If you don't hear back ... well ... ?️... LOL

[ggdad1951]

Watch ePay, rims come up on occasion or you can post on the classifieds here.  I found a decent extra rim JIC I keep in my storage space.

[9 foot box]

   I had four lock ring wheels sand blasted. I washed any residue off and brush primed and painted them satin black. I like to use 7.50R16LT tires, they are taller than 215/85R16’s. I use tubes with a TR150 valve stem that you bend after putting the tires on. I like to keep the wheel dry so I wipe the bead and wheel with rubber lubricant. I got four 8.5x17.5” wheels that could be assembled tubeless, but I would need to buy tires and they would still be a shorter height. I’m going to wipe the tubes with corn starch when I assemble them. I had a flat this summer on another truck and the tire dismounted easily and the wheel was still clean. There was a short piece of cellophane type tape inside the tire that rubbed a pinhole in the tube, another reason to use corn starch or talc. Rick D.

Edited November 18, 2022 by 9 foot box
Correct information

[Dodgeb4ya]

Beautiful looking factory wheels!?

I've kept my original wheels too.

[buck0wens]

Tires came yesterday and I got 'em on in less time than I spent looking for someone to do it  LOL ... about 45 min. Got some talcum powder and a jug of RuGlyde from napa and had zero problems. I don't understand all the resistance I ran into and honestly, I'm kinda wishing all my wheels were like this so I could work on them myself. That being said, I didn't make it out unscathed. I scratched my thumb with another fingernail while stuffing in a tube so maybe all the warnings about the dangers were warranted LOL. Anyway, thanks for the help everyone. Time to get 'em on and get the old girl home for some electrical work.

[buck0wens]

Also, a HUGE thanks to Mr. 9 foot box. He pointed me to a junkyard fairly close that had a full set of (almost matching) dually rims. Not sure what's going on with the one 3 hole ? but the '48 2 ton had a homemade wrecker bed and a V8 in it so I'm sure she's seen a thing or 3 over the years. I shot down there yesterday afternoon to grab them and they look to be in better shape (from the outside) than the ones I have ... gotta love the desert. Now I can take my time to get 'em cleaned up (aka wait till the wife is gone to fire up the sandblaster lol) which is super nice and I'll have a spare when I'm done. ?

[Dodgeb4ya]

I had a chance to buy some 3 holers back in the mid 70's off a late 60's 1 ton...passed on them as they are kinda ugly.?

[buck0wens]

OK, OK the tires look absolutely terrible on the truck but they were $60 each and I just needed something to move her ... first problem solved. I'll be putting 7x16 duallys on in the future but that'll have to wait.

 

So I was planning on trying to get her started and drive her out but in true "it was running when we parked it" fashion, the brakes are out and the previous owner wants it gone. The tires spin but are dragging terribly. Unfortunately, the truck is in gravel and there's tons of debris under it so not great access. I'm going to try to back off the shoes as much as possible and hopefully get it out without too much trouble. There's a tree directly behind it between the gate and the truck so I need to get it forward ... but there's also a huge tree in front and I was going to try to winch it forward enough with a comealong to get a good enough angle to drag it backwards onto a trailer so the better she rolls, the better for me (and the yard cleanup). I didn't have a chance to take a good look at the brakes because it was getting dark and my service manual is on its way so I don't know what I'm getting into with the brakes. I read a very good article about brakes on this forum but I'm wondering if the brakes on the 1 ton are the same as the other cars/trucks. The rear axle definitely has bigger studs. I'm going to try to get it in the next couple of days so if anyone can shed some light on how to loosen up the shoes a little more, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Also, now that I see the condition of the truck, I'm thinking I'm going to be doing a lot of work and have a bunch of questions and pictures to share. Should I start a different, more appropriate titled thread?

Edited December 9, 2022 by buck0wens
fat fingers

[9 foot box]

   To back off the cam adjusters at 9 and 3 o’clock position on the backing plate-put your wrench on the hex head and push the wrench up. Looking at the backing plate, the right bolt head would be turning ccw and the left bolt head would be turning clock wise. Back them off till they stop turning. That backs off the minor adjustment as much as possible. If you have a portable air tank, I would blow the dirt out of the spark plug wells, pull the plugs and squirt some lubricant in each cylinder before I start moving the truck around with only the clutch and transmission in gear to stop. The emergency brake might work or could be part of the problem. It makes it easier to follow a persons build thread if you just keep it all on this one. I think you can change the heading to Buck’s B2D build, for instance. Anyway good luck. Rick D.

[ggdad1951]

10 hours ago, buck0wens said:

Also, now that I see the condition of the truck, I'm thinking I'm going to be doing a lot of work and have a bunch of questions and pictures to share. Should I start a different, more appropriate titled thread?

 

 

Part of saving an old truck is the fun of unexpected...well...FUN! 

 

When you get him home, start a build thread would be my advice.

[buck0wens]

OK, change of plans. Since I need to move her forward, I figured I might as well get her going and take her easy ... parking brake is sticky but appears to work. My Dad told me to put her in gear and fire up the starter but I think that's a last resort. He used to own a bunch of Plymouths an Dodges in his 20s when they were new so maybe he knows the capabilities more than me? He was telling me some stories of abusing his parents cars today lol ... but I digress ... I Got all the crud out of the spark plugs holes and got the plugs out ... #4 needed a bit of the 'ol in-out-in-out to come out all the way but I think the threads are good. 1-3 were hand tight and the others were pretty loose but the hood has been down and it doesn't rain here much so probably no water inside. Dropped some oil in the holes. Disconnected the electrical monstrosity that was once a wiring harness. Dropped a 12V battery in, connected the cables, pressed the switch and blew oil all over the inside of the hood. SWEET! Took off the distributer. Pugs were on there 1,5,2,6,4,3 ... can't imagine why she wouldn't start for the last guy. Points and condenser look brand spankin' new ... didn't have a feeler gague but the gap looked reasonable. Cap and rotor look used but serviceable. Pulled the plug on the gas tank, 4 gallons of America's purest varnished gas came out but no water that I could see ... WINNING! There was some rust on the plug but that plug looks to be original and I'm pretty sure the tank isn't. Not a drop of rust or debris that I could see came out so that's good. Looked in the oil filter canister ... no filter :(. Oil in the canister was dirty but I've seen worse. Checked the dipstick, Nothin! Went to drain the oil to see exatly how much is in there and the drain plug is directly over the front crossmemeber? WTF? I didn't have all my tools anyway and there's a bunch of leaves so left it for now.

 

Tomorrow, heading over with some oil, some feeler gauges, a 12v internally resisted coil, a rebuilt carb, a can of gas, some wire and connectors, and an outboard gas can in case the fuel pump took a dump. We'll see what happens. Took a bunch of pics but no time to upload. I'll do a better post Sunday ... maybe a new thread or I'll try to rename this one.

 

I question about spark plugs ... there were Delco R45s in the engine and I found the old Delco 45s on the floorboard ... rusty on the outside but the electrodes still look really good. Does it matter which ones I use? I was thinking I'd use the 45s for maybe a bit more spark but IDK with this whole 12V swap. Also, is there supposed to be a washer on the plugs. R45s didn't have one, 45s do.

[9 foot box]

   Firing order is 153624, points .020”, resistor plug gap .035”, non-resistor 45’s .028”. Plugs should have the crush washer. If the generator still has a red tag, it would say 6 volt. It might not be a 12 volt conversion. Disconnect the battery wire at the voltage regulator, it will save you the cost of a new one if it isn’t converted to 12 volts. The extra voltage can ruin the field winding in a 6 volt regulator. What is the serial number on the side of the block above the generator? You can determine what the engine is by googling T137 other engines. Take some distilled water to add if needed in the radiator. I’ll leave it at that. There is too much to add. Rick D.

[buck0wens]

The electrical situation is a mystery right now. It looks like they might have been in the middle of a 12v conversion and gave up. Lots of wires flapping in the breeze. I've decided I'm going 12v and I'm going to replace all the wires ... I do electrical work by trade so not a huge deal for me. There is an alternator in it right now. No markings anywhere on it but it's silver and a 3 wire. ? The voltage regulator is LONG gone ... there aren't abandoned wires or even faded paint where it should be ... I'm assuming the regulating was happening in the alternator now. There is a balast resistor on the firewall. Weird. The coil is 6v. The battery I took out was 6v. It has newer probably 2 gauge battery cables. I was afraid of damaging/burning things so I disconnected everything except the big cables to the starter and ground when I tested the starter. When I try to get it going, I'm going to run a wire straight from the battery to the coil and leave everything else disconnected until I get a better idea of what was done and what needs to be done to the wiring. Thanks for the specs! 

[buck0wens]

Well, a mixed bag of results this weekend. The good news ... I filled her with oil, gapped the points, put the wires on the right way, connected the coil, strapped on the carb, shot some gas in the air horn and she it fired up 1st try (well second try ... 1st try with the coil wire plugged into the distributor LOL). Filled the float bowl, jumped in and I got her moved forward about 5 feet. The brakes were still dragging but enough movement to get her outta there. Things were going so well that, instead of grabbing the trailer and hauling her home, I decided it do more work there LOL. That's when the problems started. Decided to tune the carb a bit and after about a minute, I noticed oil was overflowing around the sides and top of the filter housing. Took the lid off, no gasket. Decided to call it a day.

 

Today, I bought some thin rubber mat and made a gasket for the oil filter housing and I put a switch on the coil wire and fired her up. Water pump instantly freezes. Scared me because that last belt squeal before I turned her off sounded pretty scrape-ey but once I realized it was the water pump, things were good again. I was having a hard time turning the engine over by hand with the plugs out which was concerning but now I think it was the water pump all along. So I decided to see if I can get fuel from the tank. Put new gas in the tank and notice there's a lot of rust in the neck. Pull the glass bowl on the fuel pump ... even more rust. Get her started with gas in carb and I can feel the pump pumping but nothing coming from below. I figure the gas line between the tank or the pickup is plugged. Not fun but not a killer. Get her running from a tank in the engine bay but she's struggling. Seems to be a float issue. As I'm working on the carb, the coil goes pop and blasts oil everywhere. UGH!

 

So that's where I'm at. I'm not going to dick around anymore over there so I'm just going to focus on about 3 minutes of run time to get her lined up for the trailer. 

 

So I have a few questions if anyone cares to answer ... I'm going to go on a google/forum search but I'm always up for advice.

 

First off, the coil. What should I put in there? I really don't want a ballast resistor hanging off the wall so is there a coil I can get that's 12v that I can just plug in and not worry about? I have zero experience with coils ... I converted my caddy to electronic years ago. I kinda like the thought of keeping the points in there.

 

Oil filter canister. SO the rubber gasket worked well but oil is still seeping out of the top. I'm assuming there should be a gasket there. IS there an easy way to get the screw out of the lid? I didn't see anything obvious.

 

Water pump. Not sure which one to get. So the truck is a '50 but the engine ID came back as a '55 Plymouth 230. I guess this question goes for all the engine parts. Should I be looking for parts that fit the engine or parts that fit the truck? ... or are they all the same? Pic attached of what's in there right now.

 

.

 

Fuel pump. I'm thinking I'm going to, at the very least, put in an aux electric fuel pump. It gets really hot here and it's be nice to be able to fire it up if the gas boils out. It's going to be so much easier to strap one on for now but I want something that'll be good for later too. So if I get one, what should I be looking for?

 

Gas pedal. So all i have right now is a nub sticking out of the floor board. Can I find a pedal easily? how does it mount? does it float? I don't see any obvious holes but I haven't had a chance to do a proper cleanup inside.

 

 

Once again, thanks for any help ... this forum has been great!

Edited December 12, 2022 by buck0wens
fat fingers

[Young Ed]

You should have 2 more ball studs on the floor. The pedal pops onto the two lower ones and hinges off those to push the throttle linkage. Water pump should be the same either way now. The new ones have a little bit extra connections to make them very universal. For tune up stuff like the points you need to go by the numbers on the dist.

 

[JBNeal]

additional information - oil canister lid sealing

[9 foot box]

   I use an auxiliary gas tank connected to the carburetor to start engines. I’ve disconnected the fuel line from the tank at the pump and connect the aux. tank there also. I place it on the cowl for gravity flow. The varnish residue in the tank can seize valves, so I would clean the gas tank before using it as a fuel source. I don’t know what that bolt is for on your water pump shaft but it could be stopping the pump from turning. The fan blades don’t look balanced, and would be my other concern. You need a Gates 42554 water pump. Use thread sealant on all the bolts. Sniper has a recent thread on a thermostat housing exchange on the car side of the forum. Your 55 block is internal bypass, so you don’t need the thermostat housing that you have. That explains why your oil pan plug is where it is. If you are going 12 volt, make all your connections neg. ground and get a new coil with a resistor mounted to it. That would be wired, hot wire to resistor, resistor to pos. coil post and neg. coil post to distributor. I don’t know why your coil burst, but it could be because it was wired pos. ground and the internal resistor won’t work that way. The extra hose in my engine bay goes to a block tank heater and block drain connection. That is what your engine could /should look like, with the newer engine, with internal bypass coolant flow. Rick D.