Wheel Hell

[James_Douglas]

I have to say the state of play with so called custom wheel shops is sad.

 

Some my remember my posts on my wheel issues on the 1947 Desoto. It is getting so bad that I may have to convert the car back from disc brakes just because of the wheel issue. For those just chiming in the Big Desoto uses the large wheelbase and nothing is common with the regular Sedans and Coupes.

 

The problem is the 15 inch rim and the fact that it is narrow and the disc requires a very short back space of 1.9 inch.

 

The ones made by Stockton Wheel 15 years ago are all slowly failing. One had a major failure.

 

I have called all over the USA and every wheel business that says they make custom steel wheels really does not. They have some suppliers that sell them centers and rims and they play mix and match but none of them are actually making custom wheels.

 

I MAY be able to get a tire from DB Tire that is the same diameter in 16 as their 15. Shorter side wall.  But I have no idea if a stock 16 inch pre war wheel would clear.

 

In the even anyone has a 16 inch wheel with the larger center hole (Center hole is 3.915 inch (3-7/8 nominal)) that is 5 bolt on a 5.5 inch pattern...I would like to barrow it to see if it would clear. I will pay for a crate and shipping it both ways.

 

The only other option is custom wires with an outside lace. But sure as hell we will be at some Motel one night traveling the country and I will walk out and those wheels will be gone. Even though they will not fit on much of anything else...

 

If someone has a brain storm and an idea let me know. My only other choice is to build them myself which I really do not want to to.

 

Thanks, James

[Sniper]

Well, one other possibility is change your rotors to something with a more common pattern.  I have no idea if that would be easier than you making your own wheels.

[James_Douglas]

The issue is the calipers and the size of the hubs which are very big. The rotors are the size they are because of the hubs. Both front and rear.  James

[Sniper]

Well, couldn't the disc setup donor donate the wheels, or maybe the centers?

[James_Douglas]

Sniper this was a all custom job. The discs are from a dodge truck but they are machined to increase the size of the center hole. James.

[Sniper]

Well, I dunno what to say.  I don't really do custom wheels, so I have no source to help you.

 

I typically try to fit some OEM production stuff in there.  For example I am running 2008 and up RWD mopar 17" rims in the back of the 51.  Bolt pattern and center hole diameter match up fine, off set isn't optimal for maximum tire fitment, but I am running 255/50R17's how much wider do I need to go?   And I do have room for wider as it sits right now, lol.

 

The front, on the other hand, is tighter in clearances.  I can get a set of 255/60R15's in there but I'd have to use a wheel spacer to do it since there is no stock wheel, I can find, with the right offset to squeeze in that size a tire. 

 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent, did you talk to Basset Racing?  They do make DOT legal steel rims and they make their own hoops and centers.  Dunno if they can help you though.  http://www.bassettwheel.com/contact.html

 

control + will magnify the test, you'll need it.

 

 

[joecoozie]

I have some 16's I think.

I will take a look. 

I also have some of the larger 15's from a NY'er.

[James_Douglas]

Thanks guys for the leads. I had the "larger 15 inch wheels on the car (factory stock) that are the same as the larger T&C. They do not clear the calipers.

 

I emailed the guys at bassett.

 

I did find a Rocket Racing Wheel called a solid has a 1.8 inch back space in a 16 inch wheel. That may work. If I can fit clips for a hub cap it may work. I am looking into that.

 

My other option is wires with an outside lace. I just worry about coming out of a motel and having the car on mike crates if I go with wire wheels...

 

James

[Plymouthy Adams]

stay at a higher quality motel..!      ?

Edited May 6, 2022 by Plymouthy Adams

[Dodgeb4ya]

These wheels have a load rating of 2200lbs and have plenty of setback and caliper/suspension clearance.

LoJack tracking available too.

[Plymouthy Adams]

at Dodgeb4ya.......this will solve his caliper clearance issues.....on similar ground, seeing as how that car is so heavy and all and nothing can withstand the weight and abuse from the standard car line up, even rejects trucks with combine weight of 17K lbs.   maybe could source a wheel from an armored car of some sort....them things will handle weight and take abuse.  Or get a better fitting disc brake setup.  Obviously the combination of wheels and brakes were not deeply thought out for the long haul and replacement consideration due to wear or road hazard damage.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

These wheels have a load rating of 2200lbs and have plenty of setback and caliper/suspension clearance.

LoJack tracking available too.

 

Biggest problem might be finding a decent hotel that will allow you on the premises.......  ?

[James_Douglas]

The disc brake conversion was done by ECI brakes. The problem is a very poor execution of the build of the steel wheels. Unfortunately the folks that did the wheels are no longer around and there are not any 5x5.5 centers that are a "weld all around" style being made just the 4 flange geni type and the edges of those flanges is what is flexing and digging into the hoop causing the failure.

 

The disc's were sourced from a dodge pick up of the same basic curb weight as the Desoto. The uprights, the spindles and the hubs are all much larger then the sedans, couples and convertibles. That is why we used the stock hubs. Unless I want to cut off the front end there is no other solution.

 

Either I go back to drums or I need to find a wheel that will fit. Cutting off the front end is not a solution I am interested in. Nor is getting into milling custom hubs.

 

Instead of some snark, how about some creative practical ideas?

 

James

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was being funny with the other post and the o-ring tires...but I knew these disc conversions were done about 15 years ago.   As there are a number of makes and models using this pattern, of course the offset is the main concern here as later models are more positive.  But, the earlier Dodge truck wheels late 79-93 are more than not less postive offset as Dodge did not get wild with offsets till FWD set the trend.  IF you are having issues with flex and think the single inside weld bead at the disc to rim.....could not the outside be welded to offset this possible flexing at the disc double the contact patch on an increased pernament cross section.....I have combined 500,000 thousand miles on these same style Dodge rims with most of this towing 20 foot trailer heavily loaded behind me on all sorts of roads including many many mountain highways that are secondary roads and not interstates....in all this time I have never seen a failure or current inspection show any stress.  I assure you the weight of my trucks is on par with your sedan/limo in weight, but you may have me in wheelbase just have not looked at that to compare.  AND for certain the wheels are available without the need of a custom fabrication albeit an extra weld may surely give you better service and peace of mind.   I do not believe in inventing when existing with an added improvement would do the task.

[Los_Control]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

Or get a better fitting disc brake setup.  Obviously the combination of wheels and brakes were not deeply thought out for the long haul and replacement consideration

 From a outsider looking in, I wonder if this is really the best suggestion?

I have purchased the Rusty hope kit, not used it yet but have it standing by in case I need it.

There is another kit that is popular with old mopars .... cant actually recall the name right now .

But ECI?  I have heard the name before .... never heard them mentioned in Mopar brakes. Who are they & what do they do?

 

Is it possible the real answer is ECI just does not do Mopar brakes well, going with a different creator will fix the issues?

 

We could always go back to Uncle Tony .... He loves drum brakes, they work well. In a recent video he just swapped his factory 1969 Dodge disk brakes for a factory 1969 Dodge drum brakes. .... Either way you go Drum brakes are not bad. .... But yeah I never heard of ECI as the top supplier of disk brakes for old Mopars.

 

[Sniper]

The issue James is having is the center hole requirement.

 

Yes there are a ton of applications that use that bolt pattern, none of them that I can find uses a 3.915" center hole diameter.So that leaves James with a lug centric only option and there are aftermarket rims that will work in that application, maybe depending of offset and width that he wants.

 

Being James I'll bet he's holding out for hub centric though.

[Los_Control]

There is no question it is a difficult situation on a custom made Dodge with a Ford bolt pattern.

18 minutes ago, James_Douglas said:

Unfortunately the folks that did the wheels are no longer around and there are not any 5x5.5 centers

They are no longer in Dodge territory, this is Ford with the 5x5.5. .... It truly is a custom vehicle.

 

It is possible that the Ford barn or the H.A.M.B. can give more information on wheels available for this configuration?

I admit to being ignorant on the build ... do we even have Dodge Axles here? I think the custom built vehicle used Ford axles.

 

I have simply never heard of a Dodge with a 5x5.5 , I have been 110% wrong before .... I have just never heard of Mopar using this bolt pattern, 5x4.5, 5x5, never 5x5.5"

While it is the old Ford 1/2 ton truck & car bolt pattern ... Just saying, maybe asking this question in the Ford Barn would produce more answers, even if it is a Dodge vehicle?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Not many understand about the older MoPar 1946-52 large/ heavy chassis model cars Chrysler corp produced.

All straight eight cars, some V8 cars, the C38 Town and Country six cars, all wagons except Plymouth, the 139", 145" LWB 8 passenger cars , DeSoto  Suburban's etc all have the heavy suspension parts, axles, big bolt pattern 12" drums and wheels, larger wheel bearings, tie rods etc.

Plus  larger 10 bolt rear barrel differential.

[Sniper]

Imperials used the 4 on 5.5" pattern for years starting, at least, in the 40's.  No idea when Ford started using that pattern though.

[Plymouthy Adams]

34 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

There is no question it is a difficult situation on a custom made Dodge with a Ford bolt pattern.

They are no longer in Dodge territory, this is Ford with the 5x5.5. .... It truly is a custom vehicle.

 

It is possible that the Ford barn or the H.A.M.B. can give more information on wheels available for this configuration?

I admit to being ignorant on the build ... do we even have Dodge Axles here? I think the custom built vehicle used Ford axles.

 

I have simply never heard of a Dodge with a 5x5.5 , I have been 110% wrong before .... I have just never heard of Mopar using this bolt pattern, 5x4.5, 5x5, never 5x5.5"

While it is the old Ford 1/2 ton truck & car bolt pattern ... Just saying, maybe asking this question in the Ford Barn would produce more answers, even if it is a Dodge vehicle?

Not out to prove you wrong....just not up to speed on many different wheels....these older heaps with the LWB used these as standard bolt pattern way back when...so no it is just not Ford territory...just another stolen better idea.....? that is how I am going to read this......?

 

5 X 5.5 Bolt Pattern Cross Reference and Wheel Sizes - Roadkill Customs

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

But ECI?  I have heard the name before .... never heard them mentioned in Mopar brakes. Who are they & what do they do?

 

 

https://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions.html

[plymjim]

Would re-drilling your rotors to a different bolt

pattern then looking at completely different

wheels be an option? Also, Los Control's idea

of  the Ford truck wheels seems to be on point.

[Los_Control]

I already admitted to being wrong with the wheel bolt pattern...

 

Lets think about this, if the op already added custom disk brakes .... why do we care what stock wheels fit?

 

Been a lot of good suggestions offered. This vehicle has already been modded to a street rod .... It will not use stock wheels anymore.

Maybe another Ford forum can help with the bolt pattern.... Just saying if it is not going to be 100% original. And it already is not.

Then maybe a axle swap and modern brakes is in store for it ....

You can not pretend it is a original car with disk brakes, your first stab at it was bad .... things happen. Try again?

[Los_Control]

Just MHO

 

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

The issue James is having is the center hole requirement.

 

As I stated in a post above, the center hole on any stock Ford wheel is too small, it will not fit over the hub so you cannot bolt them on.  Almost a half an inch too small.  Now I am sure someone will think wallering out that hole will make it work, but I don't think that James would be that someone.  I did find some aftermarket steel wheels, not OEM looking, that have the right bolt pattern and a larger than needed center hole that would work, but I think James wants ones that will center on the hubs and not the lugs.  So they won't work, as is, and I have not found any premade centering rings to address that.  It might be possible for a machine shop to make something up though. 

 

There are some possibilities here, not going to call them options just yet, but it will require additional work to sort it out.