What lock cylinder do I have?

[FarmerJon]

My car came with a couple boxes of spare parts, new and old. 

It did not come with door or trunk lid keys.

It did come with a pair of NOS door lock cylinders with DPCD marked aluminum keys. They came in a Briggs and Stratton box, part number 85921, with '1948 door' hand written on it.

I went to install them last weekend and found that they are significantly different than the locks in the car. Both the body and the stems are too long.

What do they fit? Must be something similar in year, due to the face of them being identical, but with thicker doors. Maybe DeSoto or Chrysler?

I would like to identify them, so I can send them to someone who can use them, and afford to have mine rekeyed or replaced with the correct ones.

 

[desoto1939]

I have a B&S lock catalog that covers from 1936-39.  The number that is on the box is not used or even listed between the years of 1936-1939. That is the best that I can provide for you.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Plymouthy Adams]

the later models used locks with longer stems...as are the stems on the door handles..could be from one of those.  They look like ones I removed from a 50 Dodge

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Plymouthy Adams

[Frank Gooz]

Those look like the locks on my 1948 Desoto suburban

[Loren]

I'd bet they will fit.

Might even be easier to install too.

Have a look at the ignition lock as well. The door key should be the same. If not you could have a locksmith re-key the ignition.

 

On my 49 I took the driver door lock out and made a key to fit it. However a previous owner replaced the ignition with one with a "Pentastar" key that has different grooves and the DPCD key won't go in the lock, so until I find an original DPCD lock I am stuck with three keys.

[Sniper]

20 minutes ago, Loren said:

If not you could have a locksmith re-key the ignition.

 

I would not bet on that. When I had keys made for my 51 the locksmith told me it's a good thing I didn't want it rekeyed as he did not have the pins and such to do that.  I, too, had one of those pentastar ignition locks you mentioned so I knew the door and ignition keys could not match so I wasn't worried about getting it rekeyed to match.  Had I wanted that I would have been out of luck even if I had the proper ignition lock.  Now if you have the scratch, Bernbaum's has matching sets for a lot of our stuff.  No tcheap, but if your in real need of it, it can be done.

[Loren]

16 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

I would not bet on that. When I had keys made for my 51 the locksmith told me it's a good thing I didn't want it rekeyed as he did not have the pins and such to do that.  I, too, had one of those pentastar ignition locks you mentioned so I knew the door and ignition keys could not match so I wasn't worried about getting it rekeyed to match.  Had I wanted that I would have been out of luck even if I had the proper ignition lock.  Now if you have the scratch, Bernbaum's has matching sets for a lot of our stuff.  No tcheap, but if your in real need of it, it can be done.

I learned my locksmithing skills as a dealer mechanic for SAAB. The model 99 & 900 had the ignition key between the seats and dirt used to get in the cylinder. Another factor was an anti-pick leaf in the ignition lock which meant the key was necked down next to the grip. You had to put the car in reverse to get the key out as well. So…valet parking attendants broke a lot of keys off. Mechanics who didn’t care about quality of workmanship, would simply put another cylinder in and call it done. Now the car had two keys.

My M.O. was to remove the shifter and take the lock cylinder out on the bench. With the broken off key still in it, it wasn’t that hard. Once the cylinder was out you could poke the stub of the key out with a thin wire. The key code was on the side of the cylinder and the parts dept had the key cutter and code book. I found out only the ignition lock had the anti-pick leaf. It wasn’t rocket science to figure out that if you opened the lock you could remove that leaf and cut a new key that wasn’t necked down by not cutting the last cut. After that the owner never had another key problem again and they could still use an original necked down key. I’d ask the owner if they wanted the reverse locking device removed at the same time.

Double sided keys use leaf type tumblers while single sided keys use pin type tumblers.

If a locksmith says they don’t have the pins, that means they don’t want to take the time to do the job.

There are two pins for each depression in the key. There are 5 depressions, so there are 10 pins 5 of which are exactly the same length. The combination is the 5 pins that are different. The DPCD locks have 5 different pin lengths.

In my case I needed to make a key for the doors and the trunk. I could not re-key the ignition because the side grooves were different on a Pentastar key. So I had no need of alternate pins. However, if I did, I would measure the diameter of the pins and find some brass rod that diameter and cut it to length as needed. I think at least one existing pin would work and if you had any more that were too long you could file them down. Two or more working pins equal a working lock.

I have no expectation that anyone but me would find making a key or re-keying a car lock fun and entertaining.

However if you have a mind to do so, it can be done.

Most folks probably should just find a locksmith willing to do the job.

Locksmiths from my experience work pretty cheap and can use the business.

Like shoemakers and mechanical speedometer guys, they are a dying breed.

 

[sidevalvepete]

1 hour ago, Loren said:

I learned my locksmithing skills as a dealer mechanic for SAAB. The model 99 & 900 had the ignition key between the seats and dirt used to get in the cylinder. Another factor was an anti-pick leaf in the ignition lock which meant the key was necked down next to the grip. You had to put the car in reverse to get the key out as well. So…valet parking attendants broke a lot of keys off. Mechanics who didn’t care about quality of workmanship, would simply put another cylinder in and call it done. Now the car had two keys.

My M.O. was to remove the shifter and take the lock cylinder out on the bench. With the broken off key still in it, it wasn’t that hard. Once the cylinder was out you could poke the stub of the key out with a thin wire. The key code was on the side of the cylinder and the parts dept had the key cutter and code book. I found out only the ignition lock had the anti-pick leaf. It wasn’t rocket science to figure out that if you opened the lock you could remove that leaf and cut a new key that wasn’t necked down by not cutting the last cut. After that the owner never had another key problem again and they could still use an original necked down key. I’d ask the owner if they wanted the reverse locking device removed at the same time.

Double sided keys use leaf type tumblers while single sided keys use pin type tumblers.

If a locksmith says they don’t have the pins, that means they don’t want to take the time to do the job.

There are two pins for each depression in the key. There are 5 depressions, so there are 10 pins 5 of which are exactly the same length. The combination is the 5 pins that are different. The DPCD locks have 5 different pin lengths.

In my case I needed to make a key for the doors and the trunk. I could not re-key the ignition because the side grooves were different on a Pentastar key. So I had no need of alternate pins. However, if I did, I would measure the diameter of the pins and find some brass rod that diameter and cut it to length as needed. I think at least one existing pin would work and if you had any more that were too long you could file them down. Two or more working pins equal a working lock.

I have no expectation that anyone but me would find making a key or re-keying a car lock fun and entertaining.

However if you have a mind to do so, it can be done.

Most folks probably should just find a locksmith willing to do the job.

Locksmiths from my experience work pretty cheap and can use the business.

Like shoemakers and mechanical speedometer guys, they are a dying breed.

 

Always like your detailed input Loren.?

[FarmerJon]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:08 AM, Loren said:

I'd bet they will fit.

Might even be easier to install too.

Have a look at the ignition lock as well. The door key should be the same. If not you could have a locksmith re-key the ignition.

 

On my 49 I took the driver door lock out and made a key to fit it. However a previous owner replaced the ignition with one with a "Pentastar" key that has different grooves and the DPCD key won't go in the lock, so until I find an original DPCD lock I am stuck with three keys.

Trying to install them is how I found out they are too long.

 

There is a locksmith near me that ha been in the same spot since the 1920s, and has a lot of old stock. I will talk to them to see if they can get me straightened out

[dpollo]

Locks and keys have always held a fascination for me.  I have collected DPCD locks and learned how to pick them open to remove the lock cylinder from the ignition switch.  I can sit at my desk for hours rekeying and or matching orphan keys  with locks.  so Loren, you are not alone out there.  Among other sometimes nefarious skills I have repaired replacement speedometer units to show appropriate mileage.    I do not do this for hire.

[harmony]

The door lock installed on the red door is on my '48 Chrysler Windsor.  The two door locks on the bench are from my parts car which was a '46 Chrysler Royal

[FarmerJon]

So it looks like Chrysler had the shorter lock also, so my best is they are from the '49-50 cars. 

Anyone got a spare they can take a picture of?

While we are talking locks, what is supposed to hold the lock in the door? Some sort of sheet metal clip?

Mine is an older restoration, so many things aren't done right. It had nothing holding the lock in the door, just gravity and paint over spray.

[harmony]

I can only speak for my 48 Chrysler Windsor and a 47 Chrysler Royal that I rebuilt.  There is a small machine screw that screws into the end of the square lock shaft.  It is behind the inside door panel.  Very close to the edge of it.  There is also a set screw that is recessed that you get at through a hole in the side of the door.  Hole that is about a half inch in dia.  It's best to use a T handle Allan to get at it.  If you don't have one the long end of a regular Allan wrench will do, but you might have difficulty getting it out, so you might clamp on a pair of vise grips to the Allan wrench.  If you have time it's best to spray that set screw with your choice of penetrating oil.  

[harmony]

Just now, harmony said:

I can only speak for my 48 Chrysler Windsor and a 47 Chrysler Royal that I rebuilt.  There is a small machine screw that screws into the end of the square lock shaft.  It is behind the inside door panel.  Very close to the edge of it.  There is also a set screw that is recessed that you get at through a hole in the side of the door.  Hole that is about a half inch in dia.  It's best to use a T handle Allan to get at it.  If you don't have one the long end of a regular Allan wrench will do, but you might have difficulty getting it out, so you might clamp on a pair of vise grips to the Allan wrench.  If you have time it's best to spray that set screw with your choice of penetrating oil.  

If that sounded confusing, I can take some pictures for you today and post them in about 9 hours

[harmony]

The hole for the allan wrench is sort of half hidden by the door weatherstripping.  The other two pictures are from my parts car and I decided to cut them out of the door just in case I needed them one day for something.  

[dpollo]

Flat cover locks were used through 47.  The thicker cover was typically 48

[Bryan]

 

[FarmerJon]

Thank you Bryan!!

Seems doable. So I need to find an orphan DPCD key to make my locks match?

My ignition has the pentstar keys, must be a replacement?

Are there any particularly cool Mopar keys I should hunt for? 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

Thank you Bryan!!

Seems doable. So I need to find an orphan DPCD key to make my locks match?

My ignition has the pentstar keys, must be a replacement?

Are there any particularly cool Mopar keys I should hunt for? 

Only thing I could find is the guy that did mine before.  rfurtado1 on eBay