Brake Bleeding

[Sniper]

Hey all,

 

Time to bleed the brakes.  I am looking at getting one of these

 

 

Motive power says it fits most classic cars, gives some details (not much) on size.  I think this will work.  Anyone use it?  I did a search and found nothing about it on this site.

 

As an option I can make something very similar using a garden sprayer for a lot less, if I knew what size the screw in cap was on the master cylinder.  I can get another cap to modify.  Anyone have any idea what size that cap is?  Parts manual is no help there, I can get a part number but no dimensions.

[Sniper]

Looks like it's 1 1/4-18 UNEF (UNified thread, Extra Fine) in size. 

 

There is  a size you are not going to find off the shelf, lol. 

[Sam Buchanan]

Sniper, I have one, it works nicely as advertised. I used the end cap of the old master cylinder I replaced and drilled a fitting in it for the hose from the bleeder. The end cap and filler cap are the same threads. Makes brake bleeding an easy, one-person process.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Frank Gooz]

Sniper, I also have one. Had it for a while i think i bough all the cap at that time but not sure about our cars. 

Works just fine and it will " make it a one-person job".

 

good luck

Frank

[harmony]

3 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Sniper, I have one, it works nicely as advertised. I used the end cap of the old master cylinder I replaced and drilled a fitting in it for the hose from the bleeder. The end cap and filler cap are the same threads. Makes brake bleeding an easy, one-person process.

That's good to know that the end cap and the filler cap are the same size.  I have an old MC that is pitted inside so I think I'll try to get the end cap off and do what you did. I'm to thrifty to pay for a fancy unit like this one so I'll make my own.

[harmony]

What I used was very simple and very cheap.  A 2 foot length of clear tubing and a water bottle.  That's it.

 

It's pretty much flawless, but it's constant back and forth from the brake pedal to the bleeder, and filling up the MC a lot, and draining the water bottle a lot.

I drilled a hole in the cap of the water bottle the same size as the clear tube.  Then another small hole (1/16) in the cap for venting.  I put about an inch or 2 of brake fluid in the water bottle.  Then pushed the tube in until it was just above the bottom of the water bottle.  Then I put the box end wrench on the bleed nipple, push on the other end of the clear tube, crack it open a quarter turn.  Then go pump the brake pedal. Then go back under the car and close off the bleeder.  It's that simple. As for the wrench, I ground down the thickness so it was really thin, which allowed more of the nipple for the clear tube

Welllllll  not quite that simple.  I get about 5 slow pumps of the brake pedal, before the MC needs refilling. I usually did it twice for each cylinder ( 10 pumps of the brake pedal).  I also set up my camera in video mode and pointed it at the clear tube and zoomed in.  That way I could play back and watch the air bubbles work their way out. A couple cylinders took more that the other ones. I just kept going until the video showed solid fluid the whole time for each cylinder.  The other thing you have to do is keep emptying the water bottle. I also got a tin can and put a few stones in the bottom of it, then I  put the water bottle in the can.  That way it kept the water bottle upright.  I was using both hands to not only crack open the bleeder, but also to push on the tube against the bleeder so there wouldn't be any chance of air getting in.  As an added precaution after each nipple, I cut off a half inch of tubing so I had a nice tight fit for the next bleeder.

 

But if I repurpose the end cap of my bad MC, I can hang a large container with a quart or more of brake fluid from the steering wheel.  Same thing goes for if I get a larger water bottle to catch the old fluid. But that still doesn't cut down on the running back and forth.

As I'm sure you've all figured out by now, that by putting an inch or 2 of brake fluid in the catch bottle, with the tube submerged in it, no air comes back into the system.

Edited March 7, 2022 by harmony

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, harmony said:

What I used was very simple and very cheap.  A 2 foot length of clear tubing and a water bottle.  That's it.

 

It's pretty much flawless, but it's constant back and forth from the brake pedal to the bleeder, and filling up the MC a lot, and draining the water bottle a lot.

I drilled a hole in the cap of the water bottle the same size as the clear tube.  Then another small hole (1/16) in the cap for venting.  I put about an inch or 2 of brake fluid in the water bottle.  Then pushed the tube in until it was just above the bottom of the water bottle.  Then I put the box end wrench on the bleed nipple, push on the other end of the clear tube, crack it open a quarter turn.  Then go pump the brake pedal. Then go back under the car and close off the bleeder.  It's that simple. As for the wrench, I ground down the thickness so it was really thin, which allowed more of the nipple for the clear tube

Welllllll  not quite that simple.  I get about 5 slow pumps of the brake pedal, before the MC needs refilling. I usually did it twice for each cylinder ( 10 pumps of the brake pedal).  I also set up my camera in video mode and pointed it at the clear tube and zoomed in.  That way I could play back and watch the air bubbles work their way out. A couple cylinders took more that the other ones. I just kept going until the video showed solid fluid the whole time for each cylinder.  The other thing you have to do is keep emptying the water bottle. I also got a tin can and put a few stones in the bottom of it, then I  put the water bottle in the can.  That way it kept the water bottle upright.  I was using both hands to not only crack open the bleeder, but also to push on the tube against the bleeder so there wouldn't be any chance of air getting in.  As an added precaution after each nipple, I cut off a half inch of tubing so I had a nice tight fit for the next bleeder.

 

But if I repurpose the end cap of my bad MC, I can hang a large container with a quart or more of brake fluid from the steering wheel.  Same thing goes for if I get a larger water bottle to catch the old fluid. But that still doesn't cut down on the running back and forth.

As I'm sure you've all figured out by now, that by putting an inch or 2 of brake fluid in the catch bottle, with the tube submerged in it, no air comes back into the system.

Best testimonial I’ve seen for getting a power bleeder…….

[Sniper]

My stamina isn't what it was so shuttling between the wheel cylinders and the M/C isn't something I want to do.

 

Been thinking about making a vacuum setup like they do at the factory, draw a vacuum on the system at the M/C, using a three way valve.  One to the M/C, one to the vacuum source, the third to a brake fluid source.    Once the vacuum is achieved switch the valve to brake fluid and it draws it in.  Might take a couple of cycles to get it all done but it gets the air out.  I have a vacuum pump already, but another cap to mod is what I need.

[Sam Buchanan]

I tried one of those vacuum bleeders that you hook up to an air compressor. I have a 5hp compressor so plenty of volume, but there was enough leakage around the bleeder threads to prevent sufficient vacuum for consistent results. I might have tried teflon tape on the threads but since I got the power bleeder the vacuum thingie has been collecting dust.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Sniper]

the factory method applies the vacuum at the master cylinder, not the wheel cylinders.  You evacuate all the air in the system, then use that vacuum to pull the brake fluid in.  Might take another time or two to degas the system and get everything out but you basically bleed the entire system all at once.

[harmony]

7 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Best testimonial I’ve seen for getting a power bleeder…….

I can't think the number of times as I was crawling up and down from under the car that I said. "This is ridiculous! " between the moans and groans of my aging body. ?

[Sniper]

I guess I ought to mention that the factory style vacuum fill setup negates the need to bleed the master cylinder.  There will be no air in it to worry about.

 

BTW, this is also how fill the cooling system, which is why there used to be a spring in the lower radiator hose.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sniper

[harmony]

A friend of mine who is a pilot, told me that in the aviation world they use a vacuum system to bleed the brakes, that does the whole process in reverse from the MC.  So it's sounding a bit like what Sniper is describing.  I tried to ask Google, very nicely I might add, to show me some pictures and suppliers of the tool, but Google must be still upset with me because I came up with nothing except hoover vacuum cleaners and whatnot.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, harmony said:

A friend of mine who is a pilot, told me that in the aviation world they use a vacuum system to bleed the brakes, that does the whole process in reverse from the MC.  So it's sounding a bit like what Sniper is describing.  I tried to ask Google, very nicely I might add, to show me some pictures and suppliers of the tool, but Google must be still upset with me because I came up with nothing except hoover vacuum cleaners and whatnot.

 

The way we bleed our aircraft brakes is with a pump oil can connected to the bleeder with a hose. Fluid is pumped into the bleeder and back up to the master cylinder, pushing air as it goes. This process bleeds the system very quickly.

[harmony]

21 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

The way we bleed our aircraft brakes is with a pump oil can connected to the bleeder with a hose. Fluid is pumped into the bleeder and back up to the master cylinder, pushing air as it goes. This process bleeds the system very quickly.

Interesting, So is there some kind of a catchment attachment at the MC, to catch the overflow of fluid?  Do you start with a full MC?  Or would one drain it to make sure as much old fluid was extracted? Would this method work for the 6 bleeders on our cars?  I'm guessing there is no way ok knowing if all the air is out, other than standing on the brake pedal?

[Sniper]

The aircraft M/C reserviors I have seen, have a port with a threaded plug, they screw in a catch line then to an overflow tank and pump the new stuff in from the calipers ans they use different bleeder valves.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sniper

[Sam Buchanan]

49 minutes ago, harmony said:

Interesting, So is there some kind of a catchment attachment at the MC, to catch the overflow of fluid?  Do you start with a full MC?  Or would one drain it to make sure as much old fluid was extracted? Would this method work for the 6 bleeders on our cars?  I'm guessing there is no way ok knowing if all the air is out, other than standing on the brake pedal?

 

The best method I've found for my P15 is the power bleeder. Period.

[Bryan]

On my Dodge Dakota and brother's car I used these.  Amazon.com: OEMTOOLS 27311 Power Steering and Brake Bleed Adapter Kit, Works w/Hand Vacuum Bleeder, Brake Line Bleeder Kit w/ 2 Rubber Power-Steering Adapters : Automotive   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SQYUA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   Just have to watch not to suck clear brake fluid into the pump.  Didn't hurt it but messy. Also used it on my rack and pinion install on the truck.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Jmo..

Don't vacuum bleed the brake  system up through the master cylinder on an old non serviced dirty brake system.

Same with a reverse pressure bleeder.

Doing so can send small amounts sludge/particulates up to the master cylinder....not a good thing.

ABS systems....really a big no no.

New clean systems bleed any way you choose.

Pressure bleeding the MC is the easiest and fastest way on our old MoPars.

10-15  minutes...done.

 

 

[kencombs]

About power bleeding introducing air if one fails to keep enough fluid in the power unit:  Older units have a divider diaphragm separating the fluid and air.newer ones don't have that.  Sure wish I still had my old '50s version.  Been looking for a replacement for a while.  The few found have been overpriced IMO.

[Tom Skinner]

I have an old bowl with a hose and magnet on it. Set it higher than the wheel cylinder. use a 6 point 3/8" Wrench.

I set a vessel of DOT3 above my MC (Screwed in tight with opening valve) full. My wife pumps the brakes and holds down when told to.

Or at my command LOL. Dammed Brakes are like New afterwards. I paid $1.98 for the Kit and use it once every 2-3 years.

I suspect yee yunguns is payin a whole heep more for that new fangled airplane thingy.

Tom

[Bryan]

22 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Jmo..

Don't vacuum bleed the brake system up through the master cylinder on an old non serviced dirty brake system.

Same with a reverse pressure bleeder.

Doing so can send small amounts sludge/particulates up to the master cylinder....not a good thing.

ABS systems....really a big no no.

New clean systems bleed any way you choose.

Pressure bleeding the MC is the easiest and fastest way on our old MoPars.

10-15  minutes...done.

 

 

Good thing to know on our cars. On my brother's car with ABS we hooked the vacuum to each wheel cylinder and opened the fitting. Still good to have 2 people. Someone has to check that the MC doesn't go dry. We had a time with it. Using a handheld diagnostic tool to activate the ABS pump. On my power steering/rack&pinion install on my truck I put the vacuum on the top of the PS unit.

[Veemoney]

I recommend the pressure bleed through the master process and especially if you don't have a helper. If you have a leak you will see it sooner rather than later. With a vacuum process you have a chance to draw air into the system undetected.

 

Last year I purchased this pressure bleeder off the Bay for less than I could find a Motive unit. Works well and came with the fluid bleed off bottle, Pressure bleed-off on tank and quick disconnect coupling.  3L Capacity Manual Brake Clutch Fluid Bleeder Bleeding Tool with E20 Adapter | eBay The Motive unit did not come with these items.

 

Used it on my 47WC last year and just finished up last night using it on the 34 Plymouth. I bleed the master on the vehicle during the process on both. 

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

I have an old bowl with a hose and magnet on it. Set it higher than the wheel cylinder. use a 6 point 3/8" Wrench.

I set a vessel of DOT3 above my MC (Screwed in tight with opening valve) full. My wife pumps the brakes and holds down when told to.

Or at my command LOL. Dammed Brakes are like New afterwards. I paid $1.98 for the Kit and use it once every 2-3 years.

I suspect yee yunguns is payin a whole heep more for that new fangled airplane thingy.

Tom

 

 

That method only works if you have two people, with the exception of a weekend a month I don't.

6 hours ago, Veemoney said:

3L Capacity Manual Brake Clutch Fluid Bleeder Bleeding Tool with E20 Adapter | eBay 

 

Not seeing something that would work with our master cylinders there?  I see two female thread caps, need a male one for my master cylinder.

[Veemoney]

5 hours ago, Sniper said:

Not seeing something that would work with our master cylinders there?  I see two female thread caps, need a male one for my master cylinder.

Sorry Sniper I seen the thread on the motive unit was 1-3/16 and you mentioned yours was 1-1/4 so I figured you would be making a cap adapter from a bolt or cap. Thats what I did for the truck. If you do go the pressure bleed route I recommend picking  up a shut-off valve  for inline too.