Battery Cables

[billrigsby]

 

Looking at the parts book it calls for a 30" cable to the Starter (-) and a 24" cable for the Ground (+).

No specs on gauge, I know being six volts the 'auto store' 12 volt cables will not be sufficient.

 

What gauge is standard and/or recommended, 0 maybe 00?

Is 24" enough to get you to a starter bolt for the ground (+)?

 

 

 

 

[wallytoo]

on the trucks, the ground usually attached to the bellhousing (or transmission, can't remember).  however, 24" would probably reach a bolt on the starter, too.

[billrigsby]

7 minutes ago, wallytoo said:

on the trucks, the ground usually attached to the bellhousing (or transmission, can't remember).  however, 24" would probably reach a bolt on the starter, too.

 

That is what I have seen, but heard it is better to go to the starter,

six of one........

 

 

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

My battery is on pass side, under the seat. I know one cable was 4ft, cant remember if the other was longer or shorter. Do remember adding a foot for the longer one. Both cables run to the starter and I barely had any cable to spare. I suggest running a string for a test and add a little.

[billrigsby]

1 minute ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

I suggest running a string for a test and add a little.

 

Well who knows when the engine will actually be in the truck, especially after the last fiasco with the brand new oil pump seizing on startup. I just wanted to get the correct size cables so when I get the engine back together the second time I can start it up and have cables that provide enough juice, the 12-volt ones I had were cranking it, however slowly.

 

I can probably look at some photos and get a fair idea if the length of the book says will work.

 

What gauge are your cables?

[DJ194950]

I prefer to have cable made to fit as needed.

 

Also several welding supply places here will sell  you the pieces to solder ( my preferred way- no corrosion can get into the connection) battery terminals to welding cable (fine strand wire that carry way more amps than the heavy strands often used in auto cables)  or most can also do a crimp type of connection to the terminals if you do not know how or have the tools to solder them.

 

Prices were very reasonable and most often done on your visit.

 

Just one opinion if you have the option.

 

DJ

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

I have OO copper and it was very hard to bend so you need plenty. I used a small pipe bender and wrapped around the bell housing and to the starter.

[billrigsby]

57 minutes ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

I have OO copper and it was very hard to bend so you need plenty. I used a small pipe bender and wrapped around the bell housing and to the starter.

 

Wow, a pipe bender, I found these on-line, price seems reasonable.

 

1 hour ago, DJ194950 said:

Also several welding supply places here will sell  you the pieces to solder ( my preferred way- no corrosion can get into the connection) battery terminals to welding cable (fine strand wire that carry way more amps than the heavy strands often used in auto cables)  or most can also do a crimp type of connection to the terminals if you do not know how or have the tools to solder them.

 

On-line was close to $2-$3 / foot.

I will check with Airgas in the Springs, to compare prices.

I would think that the finer strands would provide better power transfer.

 

 

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

May want to ask an electrician for advice on wire type as I don’t know with certainty. More strands may allow to corrode quicker within the outer casing? I would think thinner stands should be cheaper to manufacture and if provide more current, not sure why this difference for industrial/automotive applications? Just a thought…

[Lingle]

I just used battery cables USA but using weld cable vs battery cable.  More flexible and higher current capable.  $1.81/ foot for 1/0 and really cheap shipping.  I'd recommend them.  What I've heard is up size 1 to 2 for 6V so I'd recommend like a 00awg or 2/0 cable.

[billrigsby]

36 minutes ago, Lingle said:

I just used battery cables USA but using weld cable vs battery cable.  More flexible and higher current capable.

 

I'll have to look at their site again I just clicked the link and it went straight to battery cables so I plugged in the information to get pricing, I'll have to do some comparison shopping.

 

High School Electronics was over 40 years ago but I kind of thought the finer strands would provide more current. Remember when they used to teach that kind of stuff in school?

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by billrigsby

[wagoneer]

short answer - they are 1AWG from factory with  very clean grounds and factory spec wear.

 

you can go gauge 0 for extra lower resistance pretty cheaply,  but do also spend time focusing on replacing frayed wires/connectors, and cleaning and brightening ( remove grime, corrosion, and paint) ground returns for more bang for buck.

 

— longer version per my understanding —-

 

 

read this mtsc on the electrical system for great info.

 

 

 

Your battery and your  return path to ground for your starter solenoid, and your spark plugs and distributor are key for your starting and generating  circuit. 

 

the Chrysler manual states that the solenoid draws 85 amps, and OEM cables were 1 AWG gauge.  12v starter cables (4 AWG) are rated for only 135 amps and that load changes based on cable length and that relates to voltage drop (resistance) in the circuit. 1 gauge are rated for 211 amps peak, but more importantly resistance drops 50% from 4->1 and a further 25 percent between 1 and 0 AWG.

 

power draw is related to voltage resistance and current ,  and for a given amount of power draw (6v x 85 amps = 510 watts), if resistance in wire, ground, ignition, ammeter wiring is degraded increases resistance and drops voltage (metaphorical speed of flow of electrons) then current  draw will correspondingly increase. Eg if voltage drops .5 volt due to battery weakness  (6.3 is nominal battery voltage for to prevent and overcome resistance drops or cable corrosion ) like 5.5 volts, then starter will draw 85 amps from the starter but if through corrosion and return to ground there is more resistance (felt as cables and starter heating up) ultimately the volume of current reaching the starter at the lower rate ( I like the water hose metaphor in the mtsc) will be less power resulting in slower turn over

 

5.5x85 amps= 467.5 watts of power 
 

Bigger cables allow for less resistance and more of the spec current reaches at the necessary voltage and current -   the gauge of the wire is important for its current capacity but mainly for its lower resistance . 
 

 

 

12v systems get around cable limitations by “pushing” the electrons faster so you need less volume (amps) at any given time thus allowing smaller gauge wires. Also the use of better circuit connectors and each circuit is limited to usually 15-30 amps max allows much smaller wires with fuse boxes preventing wires from melting (too much current for the wire gauge causes heat and plastic melt).

 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/183.340

 

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/47237/why-do-car-starter-motors-draw-so-much-current

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by wagoneer

[Merle Coggins]

I have 2/0 battery cables in my truck. I was able to make them to fit with some battery cable we had laying around at the shop.  (Had a box of take-offs from some battery package upgrades on some of our equipment) 

 

My truck cranks over so well that it apparently prompted some debate at a WPC Club meet a few years ago. We were doing a group tour, with several vehicles, of Civil War battle grounds near Chattanooga, TN. There were several stops along the tour. At one stop, later in the day, a couple other guys approached me to settle a bet. One of them was convinced that I had upgraded to 12 volts based on how well my truck cranked over when I would start it. The other believed it was still 6 volt. I assured them it was still 6 volt, but had very good battery cables with clean connections.  

Edited January 18, 2022 by Merle Coggins

[Rodney_Hamon]

I recently had a cable end failure with the end slipping off. Apparently the guy who crimped it at the local battery supplier had a distraction at the time. I’ll take it back to have them so they can shamefully fix it. This is a first for me seeing operator error. Ha. 

[Los_Control]

Yeah I have 2/0 cables on my truck and starts well. We are told to use O/0 or 1/0 cables ... but 2/0 is all I could find at local parts store .... no hurry to change them.

 

21 minutes ago, Rodney_Hamon said:

Apparently the guy who crimped it at the local battery supplier had a distraction at the time.

Yeah that happens.

I bought my 1991 chebby truck and previous owner claimed it had a electrical charging issue. I bought it cheap they wanted to get rid of the nightmare.

Simply was a poorly crimped battery cable.

Was a pita because drove it 2 hours home on a 4 hour trip to buy it. Died at a rest stop when went to use bathroom.

Came back next morning in daylight and fixed it and never had a electrical issue since then.