1950 Plymouth special deluxe clutch replacement HELP

[CC7]

Needing some help with this, plan was to replace the whole clutch assembly, ordered from Bernbaums (clutch disc assembly, clutch cover and pressure plate assembly, release bearing assembly, pilot bushing, release pullback and spring and the release bearing and sleeve) I’ve replaced many clutches over the years and it’s always been a defined job to carry out, something here is way off. 

 

I’ll attach pics below but the new parts just seem way off.  The first pics is the original setup that came out the car and the second 3 pics show the new parts I received. The bearing carrier that came has a larger spigot size and bore size which is way too big for the gearbox input shaft. Put together and fitted it sits about 10mm short of where the thrust bearing pushed to activate the forks.  You can also see the clutch cover/compression plate is different, the first pics of the original shows enclosed springs (looks more like a silver bell housing) and the the 2nd set of photos is the new plate which shows the exposed springs. 

 

when you see the tape measure you can see the difference in “height” (as I have placed them vertically face down On a level surface) this is measured from the table top that they are lying on (which would be the flywheel face) to the face of the forks where the thrust bearing pushes to activate the clutch(approx 10mm) 

 

does anyone know what’s going on here or can help?? To me it seems like I’ve been sent a mix match of parts. I really appreciate any help or advice with this, many thanks. 
 

Chris 
Scotland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by CC7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Your original clutch pressure plate is a "Auburn" style.

The one AB sent is a Borg and Beck.

Both types were used in Plymouths.

I always used the B&B type 9-1/4" or optional 10".

The throw out bearing you got....throw it back. Don't know what that is they sent you.

 

[Young Ed]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Your original clutch pressure plate is a "Auburn" style.

The one AB sent is a Borg and Beck.

Both types were used in Plymouths.

I always used the B&B type 9-1/4" or optional 10".

The throw out bearing you got....throw it back. Don't know what that is they sent you.

 

Dad and I parted out many 50-52s preparing to restore his 51 convert. He kept everything even remotely useable but threw away every auburn clutch we came across...

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yeah...I remember when I first saw one of those Auburn clutch covers...

A strange looking thing...never wanted one in my cars..

They do work unless the car is used for racing.

[CC7]

Ok that clears that up, many thanks.

 

What would be best going forward, do you know where I could pick up an Auburn style pressure plate? Is everything else in the clutch set up different? Pilot bushing, throw out bearing, spring, cover plate etc? 

[squirebill]

If you like the style clutch you took out, package it up and send it to Tennessee Clutch for rebuild.  Will come back good as new.  Search  "Clutch Parts - Where to get them" in this forum for recent success story including pricing and contact information.  I had a good experience a few years back but this is a more recent one.

[kencombs]

The clutch disk and pressure plate you have are  fine.   Most consider it superior to the Auburn. Just sort out the correct throwout bearing/carrier and you should be good to go.   I think there was another  case, maybe more than one, recently where the vendor sent the wrong one.

[Sniper]

National 1505 is usually the bearing you need.  Unless the sleeve is damaged you can just replace the bearing,

 

Here are the specifications to compare to your original

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=218287&jsn=268

Edited October 30, 2021 by Sniper

[CC7]

That was myself who had the wrong part sent out to me, Bernbaum’s sent the throw out bearing for the fluid drive set up.

 

contacted them and they sent out the correct one and I also ordered a NOS https://www.hiltopautoparts.com/product/nos-mopar-clutch-throw-out-bearing-sleeve-1941-56-most-dpcd-models/

 

but these two throwout bearings are still not working, the whole thing is short.  If the new bernbaum part and the NOS bearings don’t work I’m at a loss what is going on. Could it be this is not the original transmission and something is amiss?

[squirebill]

What makes you think "the whole thing is short"    Would it have anything to do with having way to much "freeplay" at the clutch pedal?

[CC7]

I checked for free play, can’t detect any at all, it sits where it has since I’ve had it 7 years ago. I just can’t understand how a NOS bearing sleeve can be too big for the gearbox input shaft

[James_Douglas]

I would have to check a Plymouth Parts Book, which I do not have being a Desoto guy, but I suspect that it is possible that the Auburn Clutch used a different fork that the Borg and Beck. Someone may need to check that for him that has a 1950 Plymouth Parts Book.

 

James

[Young Ed]

Good thought James. I grabbed my 51 parts book and it shows only one # for P22 and P23 along with the dodge and DeSotos all using the same. Also shows no diff # for the release bearing. Only break there is with and without fluid drive.

This shows bearing with sleeve w/o fluid drive is mopar # 862859

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, CC7 said:

I checked for free play, can’t detect any at all, it sits where it has since I’ve had it 7 years ago. I just can’t understand how a NOS bearing sleeve can be too big for the gearbox input shaft

It may be NOS but not for your app.   For instance I have a front bearing retainer and TO bearing for a 4 spd    Much larger than the 3spd in my pickup.  

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, CC7 said:

I checked for free play, can’t detect any at all, it sits where it has since I’ve had it 7 years ago. I just can’t understand how a NOS bearing sleeve can be too big for the gearbox input shaft

 

Because you got sent the wrong one.  This has been covered recently in another thread.

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Because you got sent the wrong one.  This has been covered recently in another thread.

a link to the prior thread if you have it would prevent a lot of back and forth tit for tat.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sniper]

17 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

a like to the prior thread if you have it would prevent a lot of back and forth tit for tat.

Actually, it's this very thread

[CC7]

I was sent the wrong one that’s correct, I removed it and ordered the correct non fluid drive sleeve that I should have been sent in the first place and still same issue.

 

I think James up above has hit nail on the head, the fork on the auburn is slightly different, I am going to need to find an auburn set up to buy or send it all away for a rebuild by the looks of things. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

All 1946-52 Plymouth clutch forks are the same for Auburn and B&B clutch  cover styles.

[CC7]

Thanks dodgeb4ya for that info, that’s interesting I appreciate that.