Scarebird disk brake conversion

[lostviking]

As I was preparing the jpg's for today, I noticed I missed a few the first time around. Here are some that belonged at the beginning.

 

The new hubs, bearings and seals. The races are coated to prevent corrosion, so clean them up...pack the bearings and install them and the seals.

 

 

[lostviking]

Moving on...with the rotors machined, I put them on. Normally you just use a couple nuts to hold the rotor while you get the caliper/pads installed, but in my case I used my wheel adapters.

 

 

 

I didn't take a picture until I had the caliper installed...here's the only two bolts you needed to touch on the rear.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

I still need to do the new plumbing, install the new master cylinder and proportioning valve...but I wanted to see how it looked.

 

 

[lostviking]

Last for today...the final fender clearance. It looks pretty good to me.

 

 

[lostviking]

Finished the basic install on the other side, took a shower too

 

Here is a shot of the truck on it's tires, after the install....I'll edit to add one of before so you can see the relative location of the wheels. Remember, I used a 1-1/4 inch wheel adapter also.

 

 

 

 

This is the only side view I had, I cropped it and messed with the light to make the shadow go away near the wheel.

 

 

 

Doesn't really look different to me from these shots, but the wheel is outboard a bit more.

Edited September 11, 2021 by lostviking

[Veemoney]

That is a good looking truck. Like the blue color ( looks like Westinghouse blue) and the brakes are nice as well now that they are sorted out. Rear gearing along with the front brakes will make for a nice all around driver. Keep up the good work

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:01 PM, lostviking said:

Moving on...with the rotors machined, I put them on. Normally you just use a couple nuts to hold the rotor while you get the caliper/pads installed, but in my case I used my wheel adapters.

 

 

 

I didn't take a picture until I had the caliper installed...here's the only two bolts you needed to touch on the rear.

 

I'm curious about your calipers. Might just be my memory fading, but yours look different from the ones I installed last year on my 1939 pickup using a Scarebird kit. I used calipers for 1990 S-10 4WD having a 2.48" bore. Perhaps different manufacturer? I used AC-Delco. Would appreciate knowing what you used if they are different.

[lostviking]

14 hours ago, PT81PlymouthPickup said:

I'm curious about your calipers. Might just be my memory fading, but yours look different from the ones I installed last year on my 1939 pickup using a Scarebird kit. I used calipers for 1990 S-10 4WD having a 2.48" bore. Perhaps different manufacturer? I used AC-Delco. Would appreciate knowing what you used if they are different.

That is still what it says on the website, but the installation instructions changed it to a Chevy Celebrity caliper. They seemed to fit properly and lined up correctly on centerline with the rotor.

[lostviking]

I was asked where I got the wheel adapters in a PM, so I'll share that with everyone. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078RCTT25?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

[Jim Shepard]

What master cylinder did you source? Part number?

[lostviking]

Search here for double chamber master cylinder and you'll find the thread I found. It was a Toyota and although I haven't put it in yet the OP on that thread says it bolted in with only a shortening of the push rod.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

This is morphing into plumbing the whole trucks brakes now.

 

I took some information from this thread: Master cylinder upgrade to 2 chamber style, and bought a Toyotomo master cylinder. I'm putting it into a 1946 WD15, not the same truck as in that thread, so maybe there are differences in the bell housings.

 

The bolts from my original master cylinder would not fit into the Toyo one. I had to drill them out to 3/8. That allowed the bolts to fit, however there was some amount of misalignment with the holes in the bell housing. I drilled them to the next drill size, still no good. I eventually stepped up, one size at a time, until I'd used a 27/64th bit.

 

The bolts still hit the walls slightly as they went in, but it's aluminum, so I was able to get them in. It put a slight thread on one side of my holes, but the master cylinder was in and flat against the bell housing.

 

 

 

As that thread above tells you, I had to cut around 1 inch off the rod. I could have taken a bit more, since there is a fairly long adjustment length, but I have enough threads to give a loose clearance that will need to be adjusted out, so the peddle is not bound.

 

One thing of note as I removed the old brake lines. Never trust anyone else's work. Just take a look of all the pieces and unions the previous owner used...this is just the front brakes, and there is another piece I forgot to pick up for this shot that went to the passengers side rubber hose.

 

 

Not how I'll be doing the job.

 

I do need to drill the holes in the frame slightly for the new rubber hoses. Where they go through the wall, it needs to be just a tad larger to get the full flange through so I can put the clips on. Not a big deal

 

I still need to figure out where and how I'm going to mount the PV2 proportioning valve I bought. Bit longer on this road to travel still.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by lostviking
formatting

[lostviking]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

The flexible lines up front need to go through a hole in the frame. The problem is the frame is just barely too thick (not a bad thing for a frame) for the retaining clip to go on. YA! I had to buy some tabs to mount to the frame so I can secure the lines. Another delay while I get the parts I need. Bummer.

[lostviking]

After other things got in the way, I finally got the whole truck plumbed for brakes, including the PV2 proportioning valve. Today I tried to fill the system for the first time, and the fluid is leaking at the banjo bolts for both sides.

 

I've made sure the proper side is facing the caliper, I've torqued them to ~ 32ft/lbs and of course have the copper washers on both sides of the hose block. I can't figure out why they are leaking.

 

Any suggestions?

[lostviking]

After doing some research, I ordered some Stat-O-Seal washers. They will be here Tuesday.

 

I'll report back then, but from what I've read they just plain work.

 

Tim

[billrigsby]

5 minutes ago, lostviking said:

After doing some research, I ordered some Stat-O-Seal washers. They will be here Tuesday.

 

I'll report back then, but from what I've read they just plain work.

 

Tim

 

Nice tip,

I may just get some of those and put them in,

just because I can.

They look really cool.

 

 

Much better than plain old copper.

 

 

[DJ194950]

Hope they work well with brake fluids!

 

Used those type of seal in the past on some hydraulic oil uses where Nothing else would work, hard to get at times back 20+ years ago.  Machine required them.

 

Looks good, best of luck, good to know a current source!

 

DJ.

[billrigsby]

7 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Hope they work well with brake fluids!

 

Okay so I retract my previous comment, other than the fact that they look cool,

 

Each Stat-O-Seal has a Buna-N inner seal bonded to the center of the aluminum washer. The Buna-N rubber is resistant to water, oil, and petroleum fuels (not for use with brake fluid).

[kencombs]

One other thing to try, if you want.  Remove the copper washers, anneal them with a propane torch and reinstall   Many new ones are work hardened in the stamping process and fail to seal well as a result.  Softening them sometimes works.

 

I even reuse old ones by first heating and quenching in water.

[lostviking]

17 hours ago, billrigsby said:

 

Okay so I retract my previous comment, other than the fact that they look cool,

 

Each Stat-O-Seal has a Buna-N inner seal bonded to the center of the aluminum washer. The Buna-N rubber is resistant to water, oil, and petroleum fuels (not for use with brake fluid).

There are many types of these made, even though they all used that name. I think it is actually a trade name, but I don't know how so many different manufacturers get away with using it. These were used by many people who swear by them. I bought mine from Speedway Motors after reading this article: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-toolbox/common-causes-for-leaky-banjo-fittings-and-caliper-issues/28903. There are articles on HAMB also where they were used to keep the leaks at bay.

Edited December 5, 2021 by lostviking

[pflaming]

    I’ve used Rusty Hope on two vehicles. I don’t support companies who duplicate others designs. I asked Rusty about that, he said the cost to pursue is not worth the trouble.  I like those kink of folk. 

[Eneto-55]

24 minutes ago, pflaming said:

    I’ve used Rusty Hope on two vehicles. I don’t support companies who duplicate others designs. I asked Rusty about that, he said the cost to pursue is not worth the trouble.  I like those kink of folk. 

It's always easier to copy someone else's idea or design than it is to think of your own innovation or design.  I started a one-of-a-kind product myself some 13 years ago, and now there are many copy-cats doing more or less the same thing.  (One is made by a former dealer, and his product looks so much like mine that lots of people can't tell them apart.  But like a furniture builder I know told me - He used to let it bother him, but finally decided that he should just go on building the best product he can, and figures that someone who takes a shortcut by stealing another's design will also take other shortcuts along the way, and it will eventually come back on him.  Of course one also must keep on improving one's own design, or someone else will.)

Edited December 5, 2021 by Eneto-55

[pflaming]

I have a floor shifter designed and fabricated for my suburban. It is for the standard three speed transmission and or for the r 10 transmission. It would be easily copied, so I’m just going to use it myself and not promote it in anyway. I’m too old to promote it,  

[lostviking]

I'm not sure how this became a conversion about Rusty Hopes. I certainly wasn't talking about his design. Although I've seen his design and the Scarebird design has little or nothing to do with it. RH requires you to modify you spindle mount to put his adapter plate on for one, and you reused the stock hub. The Scarebird bolts on with zero modifications and provides a custom new hub. Hardly a  copy. He hasn't pursued a case, because he doesn't have one.

 

I don't know anyone at either company, and don't have an iron in the fire. I do know that I chose the kit I did because I consider it to be superior. Your money, your choice.

[lostviking]

I installed the new washers today and used a digital torque wrench to ensure I set them properly. I don't have initial leaks, which is a great improvement over the steady stream I was getting before. I've pumped on the brake pedal two or three times as many pushes as caused major leaking previously. Hopefully that is solved. I've got the master cylinder topped off and I'm waiting to see if any leak pops up after some time.

The system is not pressure bled at all right now. I have done nothing to get air out of the rear lines, so the pedal goes to the floor with no effort still. It was just leaking so bad previously at this point, I haven't gotten to the rears. It does appear that I'm getting fluid to the front calipers though  So there is that at least.

I see no leaks anywhere else either. Here is hoping I will have brakes again.

Edited December 11, 2021 by lostviking