Where do I start?

[greg g]

Or you can use a prybar against  the bell housing. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by greg g

[Purple Moo Cow]

So...I'm not exactly sure what happened, I think pulling the starter and removing the solenoid cover to spray everything in electrical cleaner helped things move. I put the starter back in and hooked everything up and as soon as I put the battery terminal on everything clicked, starter engaged and the motor turned over. However the key was not on, so, I guess my issue now is that my ignition circuit is always hot? Any idea which section of the solenoid goes to what? I have it is the large ground going to the Sisson choke, small ground going to block, large hot going to battery and auxiliaries, small hot going to ignition 

[joecoozie]

When you "jump" the terminal connectors to test the starter make sure the Bendix gear moves forward (meaning it will engage the flywheel teeth) and doesn't just spin. 

It can spin but that doesn't mean anything.

If the solenoid is working properly the gear will spin and be thrust forward to engage.

As far as turning the engine by the flywheel I just use a large flat screwdriver.

[joecoozie]

Maybe I should add this.....

 

If the gear doesn't engage it could be the solenoid and/or the starter are bad.

[greg g]

Do you have one of these? Alligator clip to ground,  probe the terminals and connections to see what's hot. There should be no power to the starter or solenoid with the ign off.

 

 

 

[greg g]

You don't need the fancy one with the meter, a simple one with the light will be sufficient  for most circuit testing.

[Purple Moo Cow]

Im convinced the solenoid was definitely stuck closed. I took every wire off, n just with touching the battery cable to it the starter spun, only stooped when I removed the cable. Took the starter and solenoid to a shop and they said they'd need to replace the solenoid with a modern one, but could rebuild the starter. Sucks but I guess it is what it is. 

 

In the meantime, do I NEED to drop my tank to clean it? I've seen these gum-out products, will they clean the tank well enough with a few gallons of gas poured in? I'm not positive if the tank is rusted or not inside yet, not 100% on how to get the fuel pump off from the trunk as things are rusty on the pan. 

[Sniper]

A 6v solenoid ought to easy enough to find.  Ford 311007 ought to work.

 

I would pull the sending unit and look in the tank before I dropped it.  My tank is virtually spotless. 

[joecoozie]

Have you drained the tank yet? If you did you can almost judge what the tank would look like inside by what the old fuel looks like when it comes out.

Like Sniper said, remove the sending unit on top of the tank and have a peek inside with a good light. 

 

"how to get the fuel pump off from the trunk as things are rusty on the pan"

If you lift the trunk mat, if there is one, you'll see (approximately in the center of the trunk floor), a round metal cover with about 5 screws in it and a wire leading into it. This is the fuel tank sending unit cover.

Remove the screws and the cover and now you have access to the tank sending unit. BTW- there is no fuel pump involved with the sending unit. The sending unit has a float attached that registers how much fuel is in the tank. That is where the wire(s) come in. They go to the fuel gauge. Remove the wires.

Anyway, once the cover is off there is a "lock-ring" that holds the sending unit in. This ring has "tabs" on it and to remove it you tap those "tabs" counterclockwise by putting a screwdriver against a "tab" and use a hammer to gently spin the "lock-ring" until it can be removed once it lines up with the slots. If the lock-ring gets damaged they do reproduce them.

Then you can lift/pry out the sending unit and have a look into the tank. 

 

[chrysler1941]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:23 PM, Purple Moo Cow said:

I have it is the large ground going to the Sisson choke,

I don't know when you mean by large ground, but Sisson goes to large nut on starter motor so it powers up only when motor is turning. Sisson is grounded via manifold.

[greg g]

Tractor Supply or similar place should also have 6v solenoids.

 

The locking ring for the fuel gauge sender is a sporadic thing some have them but many do not.  Note the wires position on the sender before you remove them also note the position of the sender itself. Maybe even a dab of paint to reference its alignment to the tank as a twist or two is needed to pull the float arm through the access.

Edited July 13, 2021 by greg g

[Purple Moo Cow]

15 hours ago, chrysler1941 said:

I don't know when you mean by large ground, but Sisson goes to large nut on starter motor so it powers up only when motor is turning. Sisson is grounded via manifold.

Yes it's on the large nut, or I should say was as the solenoid and starter are at a shop right now 

[Purple Moo Cow]

4 hours ago, greg g said:

Tractor Supply or similar place should also have 6v solenoids.

 

The locking ring for the fuel gauge sender is a sporadic thing some have them but many do not.  Note the wires position on the sender before you remove them also note the position of the sender itself. Maybe even a dab of paint to reference its alignment to the tank as a twist or two is needed to pull the float arm through the access.

Appreciate the goos tip on marking the location. 

 

The shop that has the starter and solenoid was saying the plunger was stuck and I may need a whole new solenoid, and that a replacement on ebay of the same part would run me close to $200. I'm not 100% its worth paying for a exact replacement soleboid as rebuilding the starter is already going to cost me $200.

[garbagestate 44]

I could be wrong but I think any ford tractor 6v solenoid will do. They're as common as bird crap on ebay

[greg g]

If the solenoid is part of the starter assembly not the remote located ford style, the availability goes down and the price goes up.  Check with burnbaum and Robert's motor parts before sourcing from ebay.

[Purple Moo Cow]

@garbagestate 44 you're correct @Sniper gave me the specific part number for it.. just gotta fogure out how that exactly connects like the original one does, I'm assuming it also has a metal cylinder that comes out to engage the starter 

[Purple Moo Cow]

3 hours ago, greg g said:

If the solenoid is part of the starter assembly not the remote located ford style, the availability goes down and the price goes up.  Check with burnbaum and Robert's motor parts before sourcing from ebay.

Yes indeed it is part of the starter assembly and that is the more challenging part, why these old car parts so pricey?! Aha

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@garbagestate 44 you're correct @Sniper gave me the specific part number for it.. just gotta fogure out how that exactly connects like the original one does, I'm assuming it also has a metal cylinder that comes out to engage the starter 

Not familiar with the 48, but  the part number I gave would work for an external solenoid like my 51 uses.  In my case it bolts to the inner fender on the driver's side. 

 

You can see it in the below pic.  If yours is part of the starter then it won't work for you.

 

[greg g]

As per the oldmoparts on line catalog aka burnbaum auto parts

 

 

 generator and starter motor rebuilding service now available. Please call 617-244-1118 for details!

 

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Sniper yes unfortunately mines attached so no dice on that solenoid. 

 

@greg g my starter n solenoid are still with the local rebuild shop, but if they can't figure the solenoid out maybe I'll give burnbaum a call. 

[Purple Moo Cow]

Starter and solenoid are still at the shop. In the mean time I finally got a chance to try to peak into my fuel tank. Now, I know it's bone dry, because the PO had no fuel cap on it, so I opened the bottom plug and nothing came out. I attempted to get the cover for the sending unit off but it was so rusted and some of the screws were messed up so I had to just bend it out of the way. I wasn't comfortable pushing on the trunk pan to try and remove the one screw head that I saw, it'll need to be replaced anyways. 

 

Managed to brush away some dirt and rust from the sending unit top. Looks like it's still sealed well but the screws do not want to come out. Do I cut the wires and splice new wiring in, remove the fuel tank and attempt a solution with the tank outside the car? Or is there a trick to getting these rusted screws out?

[Sniper]

That is a really crusty tank on the outside.  I bet the top has pinholes in it.  Might be time to budget for a new tank, sending unit, straps and probably strap nuts too. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the trunk pan looks most crusty also......pay attention to the cover the sender wire goes under.....

[Purple Moo Cow]

On 7/15/2021 at 5:18 PM, Sniper said:

That is a really crusty tank on the outside.  I bet the top has pinholes in it.  Might be time to budget for a new tank, sending unit, straps and probably strap nuts too. 

You were right, definitely time for a new tank/straps/sending unit. Guess I have to figure out which aftermarket tank and unit to buy. 

 

In other news the starter and solenoid ended up only being $240 for the rebuild which is nice. Got it home, put it in and she turned over with the button so that's a win in my book. Problem is, sometimes it grinds? Like lush button a few times a few seconds each time and then it'll grind a few of the times you try. Any ideas?

 

Also, will a fuel line into a gas can work for now to see if she'll run alright? And apparently the oil pressure hose someone warned me about was broken...so gotta fix that cause it put some oil out near my starter. 

 

[joecoozie]

Yes you can run a remote line/gas can connected directly to the fuel pump. 

You DO NOT want to run fresh gas through the line from the gas tank. It is more than likely rusted inside and the gas will pick up all that rust and deposit it into the fuel pump and carb.

 

As far as the grinding starter goes:

I had this problem with a rebuilt starter and it was because the gear that was replaced on the starter was too short. Had to have the correct one put on.

That could be that the starter gear is not engaging the flywheel teeth completely.

Could be the gear on the starter is not being thrust far enough.

Did you check the flywheel for broken/damaged teeth?