Way off topic 1993 caravan transmission

[Los_Control]

Was a adventure letting the wife drive the truck .... about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

I remember 30+ years ago she drove my 1960 Dodge 1 ton flatbed ... also the 1961 1/2 ton truck ... also the 1972 CJ5, The Triumph spitfire... Datsun ...

She drove my 1991 cheby like a pro.

Within minutes she was up shifting & down shifting like a pro ...  Now she is ready to take my truck to Albuquerque to visit the daughter. 

 

Dang! I better get her car fixed before she takes over mine   ?

[Sniper]

Women are like that, lol.  Your favorite shirt ends up hers, etc.

 

Glad you found an issue, nothing more dread inspiring than not finding an issue and not being sure you fixed anything.  You could have pulled the connectors, cleaned them, reseated them and not have been sure without what you found being there.

 

Had a similar, mechanic induced though, loose connection on the trans of that Honda I mentioned.  Some buffoon didn't fully seat one of the trans connectors when he was buttoning up after the compressor change out.  Some people think they are a mechanic just because they can spell mechanic, lol.

 

Wait, that was me.   If you can't laugh at yourself then you'll be the only one not laughing. ?

[Eneto-55]

13 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Women are like that, lol.  Your favorite shirt ends up hers, etc.

 

My wife doesn't take my shirts.  Or rather, she doesn't keep them.... But if she doesn't like some of my clothes, she will just take it to the local benefit store.  I once was looking through the shirts at one of those places - I wear mostly used stuff, lots cheaper, and often the stuff is nearly new.  Anyway, what I do is walk along the isle of shirts, and if I see one I like the color & pattern of (I wear mostly plaids, and always button shirts, never T-shirts), then I look at the size.  No use looking at the sizes at all if I don't like the color, etc.  So one time I found a shirt I like, then I realize, Hey, that's my shirt.  I didn't buy it again.  No use.

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sniper said:

Women are like that, lol.  Your favorite shirt ends up hers, etc.

 

I hear ya!

I know it has been over 20 years since she drove a stick. She has bad knees & severe arthritis in the hands.

I really thought it would be rough on her physically to drive the manual transmission today.

So she never tried in last 4 years.

 

She drove it like a pro today ... though on the way home from our 1 hour drive. She moved her right hand from the shifter and was shaking it.

She wont admit it, but she was in pain. But she is happy she can drive the truck to town as needed.

[Los_Control]

@Sniper I had a plan to use your method.

Sadly just was not in the cards .... I have to admit doing it my way took 3 hours ...  But I got er did!

Really just not possible on this car has the  shock towers kinda hidden and no access to the bolts.

I actually feel very comfortable I did the springs the way I did .... pissed me off I clocked the hat wrong and would not line up.

So for a 2nd time I compressed that spring an learned why we clock them.

Really was less then 2 hours for me to get them changed .... Why nobody tell me the ATF would pour out while changing the strut?

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

@Sniper I had a plan to use your method.

Sadly just was not in the cards .... I have to admit doing it my way took 3 hours ...  But I got er did!

Really just not possible on this car has the  shock towers kinda hidden and no access to the bolts.

 

I've done struts on the wife's Town and Country and also my daughter's.  sure makes me appreciate the set of ratcheting box end wrenches!

[Los_Control]

I just feel I need to add some closure to this thread ...  Not positive all is fixed yet.

Took me 5 days to get the tank & pump out.

Then I found out Rockauto sent me the wrong fuel pump.

While ordering a new pump from Amazon, I replaced the struts I ordered from Rockauto.

Only took 2 days ... maybe 3 to install the tank .... But I got er did!

 

I only tightened the wire harness ... I feel it was not the issue, yet I did get 2 turns on the bolt to hold it.

We drove it the other day for a 1 hour trip, we had no problems with it.

I took it in for a alignment, took 2 days to get it back.

Today we took it for a 4 hour drive. 1.5 hours to Abilene, 1 hour around town making a few stops, 1.5 hours back at 80 mph.

It performed perfect. So we have about 7 hours driving time on it.

I am still skeptical if the problem is solved.

But the journey I have learned much about the 3.3L engine & the A604 transmission ... Confident I can fix any future issues.

 ? ? ? 

 

[Tooljunkie]

On 6/30/2021 at 2:42 PM, Los_Control said:

@JBNeal Thanks that is a good tip before I use the tool ... I also like @Snipermethod .... It seems like basic common sense.

The tip about having grease on the spring and things failing .... Good solid tip to keep in the back of my mind while working on this.

I think if I had a $500 snap on spring compressor, probably not a issue. Since I bought a $30 compressor you never know what might happen.

It should be delivered Thursday afternoon, will take a look at it then and start on struts Friday. I may not use the new tool.

 

Right now I finally got the gas tank out this morning and realize rockauto sent me the wrong fuel pump. Incredible they offer 4 fuel pumps for the model/year ... The 2 cheap $30 pumps will work. The 2 Good $90 pumps offered are for a different vehicle. Working on a return for rockauto now, but trying to learn more about it ... possibly I need to order a conversion kit to go with it .... Fuel pump is on hold.  Delphi fuel pumps make many OEM pumps and tested to work 150k miles ... I do not want to ever replace this pump again. I want a good one... but it needs to fit. Yesterday had to order a new rubber bung for filler neck ... I have time before can install tank anyways.

 

On a good note, What started this thread was the intermittent electrical issue with the transmission. I was wondering if any old mopar guys ran across this before.

Almost positive it is a short or loose connection because it works perfect 90% of the time til it does not .... let it sit and restart and it works again.

Showing a picture of the ECU (computer for trans) You notice the wiring harness has a bolt in the center to attach & keep wiring tight.

Just showing because is exactly the same on the shift solenoid, other end of the harness. The center bolt to hold the wiring is loose as a goose on the transmission side.

Couple more threads and it would have fallen out. Reach down and wiggle the harness, will lift off 1/4" from solenoid controller.  I certainly found a loose connection.

May or may not be the issue, but confident I will fix this transmission problem.

 

No more work on the van today ... going to go in and take a shower and clean clothes ... wife been wanting a driving lesson on my chevy truck and the manual trans. Good cool afternoon to go for a drive. 

It was loose? If you can even slightly wiggle the connector i would consider it loose.

think moisture would have easy access too. Im pretty certain you found it. 
 

far as strut replacement goes, i have been using the cast hook/threaded rod set up for my entire career. $50 dollar blue point to be specific. 
i think the next one up from snap on is bouncing around $1000 or more. 
every chance i get, i replace the whole unit,main reason is i dont want it coming back needing a mount/bearing assy in 3 months. And i cant see any real saving in buying the cheapest strut on the planet. But, to each his own, buy what the budget allows. 
 

 

[Los_Control]

On 7/18/2021 at 7:29 AM, Tooljunkie said:

It was loose? If you can even slightly wiggle the connector i would consider it loose.

think moisture would have easy access too. Im pretty certain you found it.

It was loose, I put 2 full turns on the holding screw. Just to check how loose it was.

End of day putting tools away and just tightened it to satisfy curiosity.

I thought it was looser then that, it has a plastic cover & a metal shield going over the plug. They still wiggle a little bit.

I think the next few days I will remove the plug, clean everything up ... figure out why the shields are still loose ... is the bolt too long? Do I need to add a washer?  I think this is the problem, still needs more attention.

 

every chance i get, i replace the whole unit,main reason is i dont want it coming back needing a mount/bearing assy in 3 months. And i cant see any real saving in buying the cheapest strut on the planet. But, to each his own, buy what the budget allows.

 

Struts are pretty cheap if you do not buy the whole assembly. Good gas was $90? Quality standard was $45.

Cheapest struts were $12 ... Mine were normally $35, but on a clearance sale for $16.

Now if I took it to a shop and paid shop labor rates to swap over the springs, would be better off to replace whole unit.

 

The mechanic that did the alignment pissed me off.

Was only the camber they needed to adjust. Or tried to adjust .... it steers fine and the old alignment seemed to be spot on.

Camber was off from strut installation. Passenger side adjusted fine, Drivers side he said he adjusted the cam as far as it would go ... could use a little more but just cheap struts and poor fitment .... not his problem. Next time buy them from me.

If you look at the 3 top bolts on top of shock tower, you can see witness marks from old strut placement. The holes are not slotted, but larger then the studs. You can loosen the top and shove it over almost a 1/4".  And have all the adjustment you need on the bottom. I just assumed that would be part of the process.

He spent 15 min on the job adjusting the camber, said the best he could do and charged $100 + tax.

I just smiled and paid. Now I will fix it myself.

[Tooljunkie]

I have seen the upper mounting holes slotted to get more camber. No, its not cheap struts, they are all made near exactly the same as factory original. 
 

lots, i mean lots of newer cars on the road have issues with rear camber, pay attention to the next dodge journey you follow down the street. Amost every one with 100,000 on it will have issues. Most are non-adjustable without replacing parts. 

[Tooljunkie]

I would like to add, how can a shop charge full price for an alignment if they can’t get it right? 

[Los_Control]

Just now, Tooljunkie said:

I would like to add, how can a shop charge full price for an alignment if they can’t get it right? 

Simple, they have the only alignment rack in town     And was the owner of the shop not a worker. He did the original alignment on the caravan when I bought the new tires from him. And he did my truck also when I bought tires for it.

He knows how to do the job and is good at it.

 

Maybe I pissed him off by not paying him to change the struts?

To be honest he is not the best shop in town, locals complain he charges too much.

Same time he has a large shop on the freeway off ramp, several mechanics & constantly busy. A lot of Diesel work.

So bringing a 1993 sh*t box caravan for a alignment, meh ... took 2 days before he found time to work on it.

[Sniper]

On your electrical connector issue, cone spray contact cleaner to clean the pins, but sides of the connector, and some dielectric grease, non-conductive and made for electrical connections, will take care of things for you.  Assuming, of course, that you do not have a bunch of green corrosion, lol.

[JBNeal]

6 hours ago, Los_Control said:

...

Camber was off from strut installation. Passenger side adjusted fine, Drivers side he said he adjusted the cam as far as it would go ... could use a little more but just cheap struts and poor fitment .... not his problem. Next time buy them from me.

If you look at the 3 top bolts on top of shock tower, you can see witness marks from old strut placement. The holes are not slotted, but larger then the studs. You can loosen the top and shove it over almost a 1/4".  And have all the adjustment you need on the bottom. I just assumed that would be part of the process.

He spent 15 min on the job adjusting the camber, said the best he could do and charged $100 + tax....

Ahhhh the West Texas take-it-or-leave-it business attitude...I've experienced this many times from the Pecos to the Canadian...truthfully, that is probably the best he can do cuz he's got a case of the don't-wanna-try, summertime variant.  Caravans are quite easy as 4 wheel alignments go, just like you say, plenty of adjustment.  His struts will come with a 100% markup from probably the same place you got yours, so his assertions about strut quality are dubious.  But that task is done, your tires and brakes will wear better and you'll have much better stability and ride.

 

I concur with cleaning contacts and applying dielectric grease.  I don't believe the connectors had them originally but this'll displace moisture and air, reducing any corrosion greatly.  I've had enough stuff vibrate loose on the QuadCab and other equipment that I regularly check connectors like this to re-torque.  Example:  QuadCab AC went out a year after I replaced the compressor, compressor line connection gasket was found to be leaking by AC tech.  We had a brief discussion and they let me bring the truck back after I did the work at home as they were swamped...turns out, the bolt holding the line in was loose, I replaced gasket anyway, they recharged system without issue and only charged me for the refrigerant...a year later, sure enough that bolt was getting loose so I re-torqued, as did the year after that...saved a few bucks and sweaty rides into town that way ?

[Tooljunkie]

Any low voltage circuits are prone to arcing. Micro-arc or fretting. 
during diagnosis of air bag circuits, turns out connectors were getting dirty due to fretting. Unplug, plug in and they were good. For a while. 
add some terminal grease to keep air off connectons and problem is eliminated. Too bad they didnt know this in the factory. Im sure they did,but adding the 20 cent cost to building these cars adds up. 

[Sniper]

On 7/20/2021 at 8:18 PM, Tooljunkie said:

Any low voltage circuits are prone to arcing. Micro-arc or fretting. 
during diagnosis of air bag circuits, turns out connectors were getting dirty due to fretting. Unplug, plug in and they were good. For a while. 
add some terminal grease to keep air off connectons and problem is eliminated. Too bad they didnt know this in the factory. Im sure they did,but adding the 20 cent cost to building these cars adds up. 

 

Yep, learned in the military long ago to clean the connections as a matter of course.  Not always the cause, but it was good preventative maintenance regardless.  As for doing it at the factory, they only have to last till the warranty ends, lol.   

[Los_Control]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:46 AM, Sniper said:

 

Yep, learned in the military long ago to clean the connections as a matter of course.  Not always the cause, but it was good preventative maintenance regardless.  As for doing it at the factory, they only have to last till the warranty ends, lol.   

Appreciate the advice. also @JBNeal I have some electronics cleaner spray ... was going to use that but no clue what to do next. I will use the dielectric grease on it ... may as well take the harness off the computer side and do same.

Although I went Friday to buy some and Ace did not have it. Looks like a road trip to pick some up.

 

I have to change my attitude about my mechanic.

I had a chance to work on the struts and he did everything he could to adjust them.

Only thing left I can do is remove them, get the die grinder out and create more adjustment. ... Or replace them.

So he was correct in saying poor fitment.

 

Same time, it appears the camber adjustment should be 1 degree positive? All I can find on the internet.

The passenger side appears to be set correct. Driver side looks to be about 2 or 2.5 degree positive.

Not terrible but not perfect ... drives great and will keep a eye on tire wear.

 

Kind of disappointed in rockauto right now. Still going to use them ...but I need to be more careful when ordering.

 

1, they sent me the wrong fuel pump. They sent what I ordered, but does not fit the car I ordered for.

   I got a better deal through Amazon.

2, the struts fit, but have room for improvement .... possibly why they are discontinued and marked 1/2 off?

3,The new rear gas shocks arrived .... I did not order gas. One is dead. Simply takes forever to fully extend.

   Will cost more in shipping to send it back then to just order a new one.

4, I ordered a Haynes manual for the vehicle. They sent me the spanish version.

This is just this month on this project.

 

Not much left to finish this project for now.

 

[JBNeal]

additional information - shock absorber priming

[Los_Control]

Thanks @JBNeal I honestly did not know there was such a thing as priming your shocks.

 

Although I did prime it as they suggested just by playing with them.

When you cut loose the packaging strap you would expect the shock to fully extend. It went about 4" or 1/2 way and stopped.

I pulled it to fully extended and pushed down about 6 or 8 times to see if it would start working ... still just 1/2 way.

Let it sit over night and still 1/2 way.

Then I just collapsed it 6" or so, just the top 1/2 of travel ... still it went 4" and stopped with 2" of travel left.

 

So I installed it anyways  

My thoughts are, is so close to the first of the month, I put a few hundred $$ into it this month.

Before ordering the new tires for the rear, going to wait til after the 1rst and put the tire bill on next month budget.

I measured ride height at a specific point with old shocks and so far the bad shock the ride height is 1/2" lower then the other side with good shock.  ... I checked this morning and they are both same height.

It takes all of my 150 pounds to collapse the shock ... just does not expand like it should.

Maybe let it bounce around on the back of the car for a week will revive it?

If not will order a new one when I order my tires next week.

 

Funny side note, I checked and they are the exact length & bolt size as the new shocks I have for my pilothouse hanging on the wall. I could have installed those .... decided against it.

 

[JBNeal]

That underperforming shock absorber might be OK since it's motion probably will not be as great when installed as previously discussed.  With the heavier chassis acting on it in a less articulated fashion, it'll probably do what you paid for it to do.

 

A little budget saving tip:  if ya can wait til Labor Day to pull the trigger, there might be a tire sale around or some other discount available.

[Los_Control]

33 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

That underperforming shock absorber might be OK

All I can do is try it and see what happens ... it does ride better then when I had the old shocks on ... It might be ok.

 

I hear ya on waiting on tires .... I think my wife wants to make a road trip to Albuquerque 6 hours 1 way.

We  only live once, if she wants to make a trip I do not want to stop her with a tire purchase.

She knows I need to slather on the dialect grease and new tires. to make it road worthy .... She wants new tires now and says she has triple A A A if she has issues. Let her go.

 

Tire rack has matching tires on the front for $70 each ... I figure is fair.

 

 

 

[Young Ed]

Did you contact rock auto on that shock? The few times I've had defective parts they gave me the option of replacement or credit and then told me to keep the defective for 2 wks incase they wanted it back. Never had them request it back. 

[Los_Control]

Just now, Young Ed said:

Did you contact rock auto on that shock? The few times I've had defective parts they gave me the option of replacement or credit and then told me to keep the defective for 2 wks incase they wanted it back. Never had them request it back. 

Thats actually really good advice. I guess I would feel funny about trying to return one or complain.

I have a bad habit of being a tightwad with money ... The shocks were normally $25 each and closeout sale $9.99 each.

Same with the struts ... . Mine were normally $65 a pair and warehouse closeout discount for $30 a pair.  Just saying I cheaped out and got exactly what I deserve. Would not be me to contact Rockauto & complain.

 

For a update on the project. Main issue was the transmission randomly going into limp mode.

I finally got some dielectric grease ordered & delivered, nobody in town had any.

When I removed the sealed plug, I was pleased my Father inlaw used dielectric grease when he put it together.

Same time it was full of dirt specs dust and crap ... tells you the connection was loose for the dirt to get in.

4 speed overdrive shifts perfect every time. Feeling pretty confident issue is fixed.

 

Now am having to fix the suspension/steering.

Drove it  80 miles to Town a few days ago. Two lane blacktop and speed limit 75mph. Everyone drives 80.

Good road surface, there is several corners with a warning to slow to 60 mph. New struts, shocks, tires can comfortably take the corners at 70 mph.  The car simply performs as it should.

 

But.... with the cheap struts, the camber can not be set to specs. Now I know why they were a warehouse closeout special. I think I can correct the issue taking them loose and using a die grinder to lengthen the adjustment slot.

Or if need be just toss them in the trash and purchase new ones not on sale  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JBNeal]

In 2 years, them struts might be worn out enough to replace'm with new...Monroe usually ran a rebate promotion in the spring and fall, but hasn't done that in awhile...that plus online retailer discounts is how I've replaced shocks and struts for several years, with the savings I've used to put cheese on my hamburgers

[Los_Control]

Just now, JBNeal said:

In 2 years, them struts might be worn out enough to replace'm with new...Monroe

I think the Monroe's would be the prize. Rock auto had struts starting at $12 each, all the way to the monroe at $40 each.

Mine were right below the monroe at $30 each but 50% off. I thought was buying something middle of the road.

Next time stick with name brands.

 

What concerns me is the steering. It's kinda fun, like driving a go cart or a toy slot car on a track. Point the wheel and it's going that direction. Around town is normal, but at higher speeds, going through a corner and just barely turn the wheel to steer through it and you just over steered.  A little jerk as you correct it, The wife gives you "the look"

 

I now understand why race car drivers adjust camber for racing then switch it back for street driving.

This thing would be a serious kick in the pants to drive in a bump & pass demo race. If I could afford a divorce lawyer.

Fact is it will eat tires as is. I have $200 invested in 2 new tires, & $30 invested in struts ... I cant wait 2 years to correct the problem.