Issues with my 1939 Plymouth

[Paul Roa]

good morning to all, nice info you all have here, thanks! I recently went out of the box of Chevrolet and purchased a 1939 Plymouth Convertible that has a 1946 218 P15 motor in it. the owner from Washington said it ran fine, it gets delivered and the car is dead, the key was on. ok so we push it into garage. we try to fire up the 6 volt system but battery is dead. tried to charge it no luck, bought a new one from napa. pulling back the choke the car fired up after several attempts cool we take for drive but when we got home that was it, the car didn't fire up again. with advice from others i did the following:
replaced battery cables and went to 0 size. negative goes to starter and positive to frame
replaced 6 volt coil with positive going to distributor and negative going to ignition
had started checked, its good
rebuilt carburetor
replaced points and condenser

if i put key on, using my test light i get a light on ignition, on + side of coil, on cable leading to distributor but i get no spark on #1
the spark plugs do look worn out so i am thinking of going to napa ordering spark plugs, rotor and rotor cap plus spark plug cables and see if that resolves issue
maybe a bad distributor? i had read the Poor Man’s Distributor Test Bench but the part after marking the TDC (firing up the engine) i cant proceed due to engine not firing up

any suggestions? forgive my ignorance i am trying to learn rather than just taking the car into shop. thanks in advanced

[keithb7]

Check the wire from the coil, where it enters the distributor. This wire cannot access ground. Look for rubber or fiber isolators at the distributor housing to ensure it is not

touching ground. Are all the wires inside the distributor in place?  Can you verify an arc/spark at the points when you turn the engine over?

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Paul Roa said:

good morning to all, nice info you all have here, thanks! I recently went out of the box of Chevrolet and purchased a 1939 Plymouth Convertible that has a 1946 218 P15 motor in it. the owner from Washington said it ran fine, it gets delivered and the car is dead, the key was on. ok so we push it into garage. we try to fire up the 6 volt system but battery is dead. tried to charge it no luck, bought a new one from napa. pulling back the choke the car fired up after several attempts cool we take for drive but when we got home that was it, the car didn't fire up again. with advice from others i did the following:
replaced battery cables and went to 0 size. negative goes to starter and positive to frame
replaced 6 volt coil with positive going to distributor and negative going to ignition
had started checked, its good
rebuilt carburetor
replaced points and condenser

if i put key on, using my test light i get a light on ignition, on + side of coil, on cable leading to distributor but i get no spark on #1
the spark plugs do look worn out so i am thinking of going to napa ordering spark plugs, rotor and rotor cap plus spark plug cables and see if that resolves issue
maybe a bad distributor? i had read the Poor Man’s Distributor Test Bench but the part after marking the TDC (firing up the engine) i cant proceed due to engine not firing up

any suggestions? forgive my ignorance i am trying to learn rather than just taking the car into shop. thanks in advanced

This may just be a personal bais of mine,but if the plugs are Champion,throw them at someone you don't like,and replace them with practically any other brand. I mostly use AC ,but that is primarily for convenience. I am not saying they are better than any plug except for Champion.

I will hurt anyone that ever puts a Champion plug in any of my cars. I am serious about this.

 

BTW,I want to congradulate you on having the courage to get rid of the Chevy and enter the world of Mopar. Not only that,but you jumped in with both feet by buying a very rare Mopar on top of it. I like hot rods more than restored cars,but cars like your 39 convertible are too rare to modify and I hope you try to keep it reasonably stock. Do what you have to do to make it safe and reliable,and then just enjoy the damn thing.

Edited February 3, 2021 by knuckleharley

[Dodgeb4ya]

Is it a pea green or dark blue 39 convert?

A friend of mine had both in Seattle.

[plymouthcranbrook]

If you order new tune up parts remember to provide the distributor number to whoever you get them from as there are differences over the years. I had a problem before I found that out. Some caps are taller than  others it seems and creates a large gap from the rotor to the cap contacts.

[Paul Roa]

40 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Is it a pea green or dark blue 39 convert?

A friend of mine had both in Seattle.

the blue one in in tekoa WA

[T120]

Wow, a 1939 Plymouth convertible, welcome to the forum. Now, please don't get upset with me. While you haven't mentioned your background, I  assume you have mechanical experience as you mentioned having rebuilt the carburetor.. If the car started after replacing the battery, and not since the work you've summarized,I would think you should still see spark at number 1 cylinder...this is the part that I hesitate to mention - the point gap in the distributor must be set at least approximately correct and the points must both close then open to obtain spark..again, forgive me if I've insulted you

Edited February 3, 2021 by T120
correction

[Paul Roa]

3 hours ago, T120 said:

Wow, a 1939 Plymouth convertible, welcome to the forum. Now, please don't get upset with me. While you haven't mentioned your background, I  assume you have mechanical experience as you mentioned having rebuilt the carburetor.. If the car started after replacing the battery, and not since the work you've summarized,I would think you should still see spark at number 1 cylinder...this is the part that I hesitate to mention - the point gap in the distributor must be set at least approximately correct and the points must both close then open to obtain spark..again, forgive me if I've insulted you

no insult sir, one needs to take constructive wording to learn and i want to learn, i will check the points...

[T120]

19 minutes ago, Paul Roa said:

no insult sir, one needs to take constructive wording to learn and i want to learn, i will check the points...

Sometimes a problem can be due to something a person overlooks.

[John Reddie]

Hello Paul and welcome. If you have a chance, could post a few pics of your '39? Those Plymouth convertibles of the '30's are sweet cars.

John R

[desoto1939]

Set the gap to 18 on the points better to be a little under then over.  I have a 39 Desoto Sedan. These late 30's car were the last of the Art deco style.

 

I have lots of cross reference catalogs for your car. I live Near Philadelphia. So I quess you do not get any time to come to MECA as we call it but the Hershey fall swap meet.  I have been going for over 32 years and it is still impressive.

 

Write to me at desoto1939@ol.com

 

Rich Hartung

[keithb7]

These items addressed below may not be your problem, however should be looked at closely to ensure.

 

Photo 1: shows the rubber isolator that needs to be in place at the distributor housing. It also shows a very bad wire with exposed wire strands. This is unacceptable and any wire that looks like this needs to be replaced.

 

Photo 2: Red arrows again point to the rubber isolator (important). Orange circles point out various fasteners that need to be secured tight.  Find them all, check them for tight. Don't overdo it with too much torque. The green arrows point to internal wires that need to be properly shielded, unable to allow voltage to jump to ground. Any seen as questionable, replace.  

 

You mentioned replacing points. Many a beginner (including me) have set them wrong and an engine won't start. The points gap needs to be adjusted when the points are fully opened.  The points lift-arm is to be at the apex of the points cam. The correct spec will get your dwell close when you have new points installed. Not later, when adjustments are made with worn points. Then a dwell meter really proves its value.

 

The key to good troubleshooting is really understanding how the various systems work. Why they all work together and what they do. Best to source some old vintage books on automotive technical theory and read, read, read.  Lights start to come on. Eventually you'll have a long string of lights, like a run of outdoor Christmas lights inside your brain. All working together. You'll be firing on all cylinders, so to speak!

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by keithb7

[Tom Skinner]

Paul,

Once you determine you have spark at the points, static time the motor (read up on the process in our technical area above).

Static Timing is setting the Ignition timing with the motor not running. Piston #1 must be at Top Dead Center in order to start with.

Remove the Coil Wire (Center of the Dis. Cap and hold it near a ground, loosen the distributor and rotate the distributor until a spark jumps at the wire/ground)

Now you are ready to start the motor and use a timing light to dial it in more.  By the way the key must be turned on when doing the above

don't get bit

It sounds like the timing got knocked off when you put new points in. therefore no spark at #1 when it needs to be there.

Good Luck.

Tom

Edited February 4, 2021 by Tom Skinner

[Paul Roa]

21 hours ago, keithb7 said:

These items addressed below may not be your problem, however should be looked at closely to ensure.

 

Photo 1: shows the rubber isolator that needs to be in place at the distributor housing. It also shows a very bad wire with exposed wire strands. This is unacceptable and any wire that looks like this needs to be replaced.

 

Photo 2: Red arrows again point to the rubber isolator (important). Orange circles point out various fasteners that need to be secured tight.  Find them all, check them for tight. Don't overdo it with too much torque. The green arrows point to internal wires that need to be properly shielded, unable to allow voltage to jump to ground. Any seen as questionable, replace.  

 

You mentioned replacing points. Many a beginner (including me) have set them wrong and an engine won't start. The points gap needs to be adjusted when the points are fully opened.  The points lift-arm is to be at the apex of the points cam. The correct spec will get your dwell close when you have new points installed. Not later, when adjustments are made with worn points. Then a dwell meter really proves its value.

 

The key to good troubleshooting is really understanding how the various systems work. Why they all work together and what they do. Best to source some old vintage books on automotive technical theory and read, read, read.  Lights start to come on. Eventually you'll have a long string of lights, like a run of outdoor Christmas lights inside your brain. All working together. You'll be firing on all cylinders, so to speak!

 

 

 

sir enclosed is my current setup...i see already the main wire is no good. however your set up looks different . i am to compare them now. thanks

[Paul Roa]

20 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

Paul,

Once you determine you have spark at the points, static time the motor (read up on the process in our technical area above).

Static Timing is setting the Ignition timing with the motor not running. Piston #1 must be at Top Dead Center in order to start with.

Remove the Coil Wire (Center of the Dis. Cap and hold it near a ground, loosen the distributor and rotate the distributor until a spark jumps at the wire/ground)

Now you are ready to start the motor and use a timing light to dial it in more.  By the way the key must be turned on when doing the above

don't get bit

It sounds like the timing got knocked off when you put new points in. therefore no spark at #1 when it needs to be there.

Good Luck.

Tom

agreed...my son put the points on. maybe an oversite. but this is how we learn. 

[Paul Roa]

22 hours ago, John Reddie said:

Hello Paul and welcome. If you have a chance, could post a few pics of your '39? Those Plymouth convertibles of the '30's are sweet cars.

John R

 

[sidevalvepete]

Fine looking automobile Paul. Can just about smell it from here.....pics are great.

[keithb7]

delete

Edited February 4, 2021 by keithb7

[desoto1939]

I have taken a picture of a NOS Autolite Breaker Plate IGS 3004A  This is the same plate used inyour 39 Plymouth and also used inmy 39 Desoto.

As mentioned before I think some of the wire are not correct look at the pictures.

 

rich Hartung    Desoto1939@aol.com

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

I believe the word WOW is accurate in describing your car.

[Merle Coggins]

Nice looking car. I like that it still has the original square headlights. 

 

On your distributor, it looks like the condenser wire rubbing on the points, possibly restricting their movement. 

[Andydodge]

Your Plymouth is VERY NICE..........and Merles comment about the condenser wire is a good pick............guard those square headlights, they lenses are very hard to find.....andyd.

[desoto1939]

over here inthe state the lens and the headlight rings can be found because the Plymouth has the most sales of the 39 Cars.  What gets hard is the 39 Desoto and Chrylser. The 39 dodge is not to bad but the other two are getting harder and harder to get NOS and original parts.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[keithb7]

4 hours ago, Paul Roa said:

 

 

 

 

Can you loosen the clamp on the capacitor and slide it slightly forward? To give a little more free wire to move away from the points?

Looking at your engine the main coil HT lead appears old and crispy. I'd replace it. It does not match the age of the spark plug wires.

Edited February 5, 2021 by keithb7

[T120]

Further to what keith just said, I enlarged the photo you posted  of your distributor innards ,it appears to me that the points will never show open, ( spark occurs when they open),because there appears to be a short circuit where that condenser is attached to the movable contact and the jumper wire (stationary contact)...Which is chassis ground.

Edited February 5, 2021 by T120
added - chassis ground