GMAS54 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 In the process of ordering a disc brake conversion kit from ECI a hotrod brake company. Has anyone completed something like this....it appears it may not be too difficult? Any feedback would be appreciated. Working on my 54 Plymouth Savoy Club Coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Want an easier solution or are you committed to discs? Chrysler 12 inch brakes. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMAS54 Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Committed to disc.....huge safety issue...gotta stop this baby....thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allbizz49 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Rusty hope is the way to go. My opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruff Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 where do you find 12" chrys drum parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, scruff said: where do you find 12" chrys drum parts In Loren's Hoard ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, scruff said: where do you find 12" chrys drum parts To change over from 10 inch Plymouth to 12 inch Chrysler you will need the following: At the front Front spindles, backing plates, drums. At the rear Drums and backing plates. Those pieces are wrecking yard parts from donor cars. I got what I needed for $250. I replaced the shoes, king pins, wheel bearings, springs and hydraulic parts from AB. Because the design is the same the is no engineering to do. You just swap parts. Plymouth wheel bearings, king pins, wheel cylinders and master cylinder are the same part numbers as Chrysler. You won't have to remember where any of your parts came from as they are all Mopar. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Don't the rear drums have to be off a tapered axle? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 What year donors are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskwatch Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Loren - I’m very interested in the 12 inch drum swap, could you expand more on the procedure, I think it’s a great idea ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48ply1stcar Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 12 hours ago, GMAS54 said: In the process of ordering a disc brake conversion kit from ECI a hotrod brake company. Has anyone completed something like this....it appears it may not be too difficult? Any feedback would be appreciated. Working on my 54 Plymouth Savoy Club Coupe. Getting back to your comment. NickPickToo has a very long rebuild tread, I have included a link to that thread. Page 32 is where he starts installing a ECI brake conversion. I've also included a links to a thread that I started on deciding which disc brakes to go with, and my Scarebird installation thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Loren said: To change over from 10 inch Plymouth to 12 inch Chrysler you will need the following: At the front Front spindles, backing plates, drums. At the rear Drums and backing plates. Those pieces are wrecking yard parts from donor cars. I got what I needed for $250. I replaced the shoes, king pins, wheel bearings, springs and hydraulic parts from AB. Because the design is the same the is no engineering to do. You just swap parts. Plymouth wheel bearings, king pins, wheel cylinders and master cylinder are the same part numbers as Chrysler. You won't have to remember where any of your parts came from as they are all Mopar. Your point on the parts all being Mopar is fair. But your follow-up post above, listing all the parts one would need to source belies your earlier one, wherein you referred to it as "an easier solution", as, in IMHO anyway, a quality disc brake conversion is a far simpler, and likely more effective solution. Remove the tire, dust cover, drum, springs and backing plate to expose the spindle. Bolt on the adapter plate, slide the hub assembly into place, slip the rotor over the lug studs, use two bolts to secure the caliper and pads, install the new, longer brake line and dust cap and re-mount the tire. Rinse and repeat for the other side. Remove the residual pressure valve from the M/C, bleed your new brakes and take `er out for a test drive. All Mopar? Nope, but it's also not so many parts that a note in the glove box (or in a receipts notebook or spreadsheet) won't suffice. And while the guy down the street is still cleaning and/or refurbishing those 70+ year old Chrysler parts (never mind installing them then fighting, unless he happens to have the special tools, for proper adjustment) you're wheeling your old friend down the road - probably for a good spell before the other guy is even close to being ready. Believe it or not I'm a fan of originality. But when it comes to installing safety items on a car that is driven regularly (seat belts, turn signals and, yes, disc brakes) I'm one who will look the other way. _ Edited January 25, 2021 by Hamilton typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 As a rule I don't mind drum brakes. I have all the tools to do a proper drum brake job including a shoe arc machine... That said, the big Desoto at 5000 pounds has a hard time stopping straight from 65 to 70 MPH in a panic stop situation. I also most bought the farm once a couple of years after I purchased it on the Freeway here near San Francisco. At the time the front brakes were working as good as they could be. The car is just too heavy to be doing panic stops from 70. So I had Ralph, who has since sold ECI make a custom disc conversion for me. The other vendors mentioned on this board were not around at that time. It works fine. I do have to do some machining on the discs however as the Desoto uses the "Big Chrysler 8" front end so everything is much larger including the spindles and hubs. On a lighter car using the Chrysler 12 inch drums with them drilled (by that company in LA) for fade control may be a good option. I do wonder (Loren) about the king pin inclination angle and the like when swapping spindles. Since different cars and years have different control arms and uprights...it may work on some cars but not others as far a geometry goes. When I did the 1949 Desoto I used an ECI Disc kit that they sell. I have two issues. The first one was the spindle and hub supplied did not fit correctly. A spacer they supplied was not correct. They ended up making one that was correct once I got all the measurements. The second one they never did address and I had to deal with it. They specified and supplied a grease seal for their hub. After running the car for less than 500 miles I had the hub off and the grease (red) was black. The seal had been worn off. When I contacted the seal maker for the proper shaft size I...I found out that the spindle shaft size was larger then the seal specification. I called the new owner of ECI, he was nice, but they never did anything about it. In the end we lathed the spindle seal area down a few thousands to the seal shaft size. By the way, the seal company told me that that seal did not have a range and was for a particular shaft size only... So, the lesson learned is do not assume that ANY of the companies supplying kits are going to provide something that is 100% OK. Even when they tell you, "I have never had any complaints". A lot of people just punt and never complain or fix the problem without every talking with them. That is why Loren has a point on the subject of using an all factory set up. I also made a rear disc conversion for the '49 (I also did it for the big '47 but it is still sitting on the shelf). The rears are tricky as you have to take an axle and mate it to the hub and then have that hub face lathed perfectly. Then they are a match forever. If you change the axle you have to do it again. You may also have to do it again if you pull the hub off the axle as the key and the final position is important. It is all about the tapper. That is why ECI and others do not like to do rear disc conversions as the disc cannot be mounted perfectly parallel without turning it all with the axle. On the '49 I used a remote power brake booster and a stock 1951 Chrysler Power Brake Master Cylinder with the power brake only pedal. The pedal looks the same on the top half but the bottom half has a different ratio and a different push rod for that ratio. Works too good. If I nail the brakes it would send me out the windshield like some late 1950's early 1960's cars ! My 2 cents worth. James 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blucarsdn Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 When it comes to the question as to how far a persons goes to repair an old vehicle, one must access just what the intended use of the vehicle is going to be. If the main use of the vehicle is going to be an occasional drive to church on a nice summer Sunday morning, a trip to the local park for a picnic or the local 4th of July Parade, repair the vehicle to stock standards. If the vehicle is going to be used for cruises to car shows with the family/loved ones in the vehicle, then modern improvements are the better way to go. In today's world everything moves/happens very fast, in a flash what started out to be a quite ride turns into a ten car pile up. Wm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Then there is this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Point taken IMHO. My application is a 52 Suburban. The donor car was a 1950 Chrysler Windsor. The Chrysler being a premium car was going to have better brakes than a Plymouth from the get go, when you compare stock to stock. There's a 600 lbs difference in weight between the two cars, advantage Plymouth. Yes you could add a power brake booster to either discs or drums. Again IMHO, if I were to spec a disc brake system for my car it wouldn't just be the fronts. I would test drive a number of cars (and trucks) and find one of comparable weight that I liked the brake performance of. Not all cars meet my standards for brake feel and the ability to modulate. (I haven't driven a Toyota that I liked yet) Then I would make the swap a total system and why stop at regular old brakes? Why not anti-lock too? Of course if you get really good brakes they usually fill up the inside of the wheel so they might require 16, 17 or 18 inch wheels. The added brake power will certainly need more rubber on the ground than 670x15 tires. You see where this is going? If you insist on a car that drives like a modern car, perhaps what you need is a modern car. I like my Plymouth, it's old and has lots of things that are shall we say "primitive". That's its charm. Being an old hot rodder and an antique car nut I appreciate "period authenticity". Which means using what was the best available at the time it was new (even if that wasn't discovered until later). How many of us read an ad no further when it says SBC or Mustang ll front end? I know I do. There's a sign in the Harley Davidson museum it reads: "You will see many vehicles here that are not freshly restored. These are originals and they will remain in that condition forever. You can restore a vehicle many times but an original is only an original ONCE." We are running out of originals because we love to drive our cars but I don't advocate stopping. It's a hobby, enjoy it. If you think you're an engineer go for it. I am not an engineer. I am just an old mechanic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Changing to disc brakes seems like the way to go no matter how you get there. Along with their many other positive attributes they're a bunch easier to adjust than drum brakes and less chance of getting the adjustment wrong.. I'd go a step further and mount a dual m/c on the firewall, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 I've had 4 wheel disc brakes and a dual circuit master cylinder since 1974/75 on my 1940 Dodge.......it stops well, yep, just like a modern car..........I'd forgotten just what drum brakes were like until I bought the 1941 Plymouth in 2007 which had the stock braking system...................I drive/drove my cars regularly, ie, I used to drive the Plymouth to work, a couple of times a week as I did the Dodge..........both offered an "old car driving experience" but at different levels..........for various reasons that had nothing to do with the driving experience I ended up selling the Plymouth in 2013, for which I still regret 7 years later but I still have the Dodge, 50 years this September............and whilst the two cars were different, in a lot a ways they were the same...........so...........drum brakes are what they are, they will never be as good as disc brakes but can be made to stop very well...........so we choose what WE, OURSELVES want and get on with enjoying our OLD cars.............regards from Oz.......Andy Douglas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahunah Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 I used Rusty Hope's brackets for the disc conversion. All of the other parts required are off the shelf and he sends a detailed list with part numbers. IIRC, I spent right at $500 for the conversion. The master cylinder is off the shelf and I bought the pedal conversion kit from ECI. It works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) On 24/01/2021 at 8:23 PM, Loren said: Want an easier solution or are you committed to discs? Chrysler 12 inch brakes. You know this is not a bad idea. The 12 inch brakes have a 5x5 pattern though correct? To be honest the 11 inch brakes with good drums and well adjusted will put you into the dash too.. Discs are fine too, easier for most but not necessarily gonna be 100s of times greater than dual WC brakes setup well. Trouble is getting the shoes tru to drums in correct clearances. Tim Kingsburys hot 265 powered 49 Plymouth has 12 inch Chrysler drum brakes up front... A lot of the disc kits work fine, even with stock MC. There certainly good for those who say have no decent drums, and for those who absolutely cannot "get it right" with Lockheed Brakes. On my 55 Fargo I have stock up front and modern bendix 10 inch drums in rear. It stops decent, the rears are better though and this will need to be addressed. I have considered going to more modern dodge bendix drum brakes up front. Edited January 27, 2021 by 55 Fargo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 5 hours ago, 55 Fargo said: You know this is not a bad idea. The 12 inch brakes have a 5x5 pattern though correct? To be honest the 11 inch brakes with good drums and well adjusted will put you into the dash too.. Discs are fine too, easier for most but not necessarily gonna be 100s of times greater than dual WC brakes setup well. Trouble is getting the shoes tru to drums in correct clearances. Tim Kingsburys hot 265 powered 49 Plymouth has 12 inch Chrysler drum brakes up front... A lot of the disc kits work fine, even with stock MC. There certainly good for those who say have no decent drums, and for those who absolutely cannot "get it right" with Lockheed Brakes. On my 55 Fargo I have stock up front and modern bendix 10 inch drums in rear. It stops decent, the rears are better though and this will need to be addressed. I have considered going to more modern dodge bendix drum brakes up front. Mopar and Ford (late) are 5 on 4 1/2. The Ford guys have been putting Lincoln 12 inch brakes on their cars for decades. In fact you can buy reproduction Lincoln brakes with the updated Bendix design system now. I am tempted to buy a set and then compare the pieces. (I have a Model A which could use them). Chrysler brakes are a challenge to find but they are out there (for about half the price of new Lincoln brakes). I believe the Bendix system is better and easier to live with, plus you can add self adjusters to them. The Lockheed system is the older of the two. When Ford switched to Bendix with the 49 models, my Dad hated them as they were "self energizing". He said you lost brake feeling. I don't know what he was talking about and I can't ask him now but I am pretty particular about my brakes too. Vern Tardel the Ford V8 Traditional Hot Rod Guru thinks Lincoln brakes are the way to go. He says they really STOP! And he's never suggested you need disc brakes. I've seen Tim's 49 and lusted for it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, Loren said: Mopar and Ford (late) are 5 on 4 1/2. The Ford guys have been putting Lincoln 12 inch brakes on their cars for decades. In fact you can buy reproduction Lincoln brakes with the updated Bendix design system now. I am tempted to buy a set and then compare the pieces. (I have a Model A which could use them). Chrysler brakes are a challenge to find but they are out there (for about half the price of new Lincoln brakes). I believe the Bendix system is better and easier to live with, plus you can add self adjusters to them. The Lockheed system is the older of the two. When Ford switched to Bendix with the 49 models, my Dad hated them as they were "self energizing". He said you lost brake feeling. I don't know what he was talking about and I can't ask him now but I am pretty particular about my brakes too. Vern Tardel the Ford V8 Traditional Hot Rod Guru thinks Lincoln brakes are the way to go. He says they really STOP! And he's never suggested you need disc brakes. I've seen Tim's 49 and lusted for it! Good stuff, I thought the big drums and hubs off limo sized 12 inch brake cars were bigger than the usual 4.5 on 5? When did you see Tims beast? Quite the car isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 I had a 49 once, a club coupe. There's two Plymouths I've always wanted, a Suburban (I have a 52 now) and a Business Coupe. 49s have much to love. I've corresponded with Tim and he's told me about it and shared photos. I live on the West Coast while he on the East. So I've not actually seen it up close and personal. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate it and want one just like it. Business Coupes were the cheapest of Plymouths but that doesn't mean you can't upgrade one. My Club Coupe had the most outstanding woodgrain and chrome dash (a Special Deluxe). No reason you couldn't do that to a B.C. The Drums and spindles I got were from a Windsor which is the 6 cylinder Chrysler and they use the 5 on 4 1/2 pattern bolt circle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Loren said: I had a 49 once, a club coupe. There's two Plymouths I've always wanted, a Suburban (I have a 52 now) and a Business Coupe. 49s have much to love. I've corresponded with Tim and he's told me about it and shared photos. I live on the West Coast while he on the East. So I've not actually seen it up close and personal. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate it and want one just like it. Business Coupes were the cheapest of Plymouths but that doesn't mean you can't upgrade one. My Club Coupe had the most outstanding woodgrain and chrome dash (a Special Deluxe). No reason you couldn't do that to a B.C. The Drums and spindles I got were from a Windsor which is the 6 cylinder Chrysler and they use the 5 on 4 1/2 pattern bolt circle. Yes of course a Windsor is a 5 x 4.5, the biggins such as Limo and 8 passenger and perhaps TC convert are 5x5... Edited January 28, 2021 by 55 Fargo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 12 hours ago, Loren said: I had a 49 once, a club coupe. There's two Plymouths I've always wanted, a Suburban (I have a 52 now) and a Business Coupe. 49s have much to love. I've corresponded with Tim and he's told me about it and shared photos. I live on the West Coast while he on the East. So I've not actually seen it up close and personal. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate it and want one just like it. Business Coupes were the cheapest of Plymouths but that doesn't mean you can't upgrade one. My Club Coupe had the most outstanding woodgrain and chrome dash (a Special Deluxe). No reason you couldn't do that to a B.C. The Drums and spindles I got were from a Windsor which is the 6 cylinder Chrysler and they use the 5 on 4 1/2 pattern bolt circle. Without taking the thread off the rails can you post pics of your 52 Suburban love those cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.