New User & 1950 De Luxe craigslist find

[Knaveofdarts]

Greetings all ! I found this place through google searches, read a few threads, which lead me to Keith B's very helpful youtube videos re: his '38. This will be my first flathead project other than small engine repair. I'm 34, married to a very patient woman, and I currently reside in Virginia. I've done hobby wrenching on and off for some years, and formerly worked at a junkyard in Connecticut pulling cars apart and also formerly at a boatyard in Maryland as a general mechanic. My current job leaves me only limited time to wrench, but plenty of time to browse ebay and craigslist... which inevitably leads to shenanigans. I have new junk too, but I like old junk better. In these covid times, I prefer to shield myself from the world with a wall of inoperable iron.

 

Current projects: 1971 Lincoln Mark 3 - engine apart for the second time, it ate the last cam i put in. Live and Learn. This has been a 10+ year project.

                             1959 Austin Princess Vanden Plas Limousine - 2 year project thus far, this was a craigslist find. Rare car and not easy to find parts for. Currently rewiring and welding.

 

Previous Projects: 1966 Dodge Dart 318 swap, 1963 Studebaker Lark, 1983 Trans Am, 1988 Chevy C/K 1500, and others

 

A little more than 1 month ago I found a craigslist post for a 1950 Plymouth De Luxe sedan in Front Royal, VA, temptingly listed for $1000.  It was sitting patiently under a tarp on the front lawn of a townhouse and the simple, round lines and chrome trim just spoke to me. They said "buy me, and don't tell the wife." I chewed on the thought for about a week, made contact, and showed up with cash in hand on Columbus Day. The nice lady was selling it on behalf of her deceased husband who never finished it (the future fate of my cars, I'm sure.) She knew little about it other than "it ran about 10 years ago, but not very well." Significant rainfall delayed the other prospective buyers en route, or perhaps she fed me a line. My wife, who was working from home, suddenly "decided" to have acute kidney stones at that very moment, which prevented close inspection of the vehicle (more on that later). I quickly lifted the floormats and saw the front floorpans were on holiday, as is the trunk spare tire well, which is not a deal breaker. I've bought and driven worse, I thought. The tires were flat which prevented me from getting a good look at the frame. With a very rapid decision needed, I rolled the dice and made the purchase. We agreed on $800 and I arranged a tow, and left in a hurry to tend to the little woman. Hers ended up being a two week saga requiring surgical remedy. (she's fine now, but it was quite the ordeal.) The 20-something flatbed driver who made the delivery that night remarked how hard it was to find neutral in this "automatic". ?

 

In between doctor's visits for the wife, I wasn't able to do very much. I did find that the left rear wheel had rusted through and would no longer hold air. I wanted to work under the car, but i dont trust jack stands on my sloped gravel driveway, at least not with my whole body under there. There was no spare in the trunk. I had an extra wheel and tire from my 71 Lincoln, slightly wider but still the same 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. I needed to grind off the drum's locator stud and also open up the center register of the wheel with a die grinder very slightly, and I figured this was best done with the drum off the car. I tried to pull it with a two-jaw puller and some thick scrap steel, which I promptly bent like a banana. I also slightly boogered the holes. Rats! Those drums are on there tight! So I did a little research, got my head out of my *** and bought a proper Cal-Van drum puller and removed the rear drum and tapped the holes clean (yes, Amazon had 1/2"-20 LH taps in stock!) and used it to fit the spare wheel, and we were in business. Now at least I had 4 tires which held air and I could get under the car safely. The brake master cylinder seemed seized, though, so it has to stay put until i can safely drag it with a rope to a more suitable spot.

 

In the following days, the wife was recovering and I began to poke some more at my new prize, my initial excitement was tempered with some alarming finds. I hooked up the bulged 6 volt battery I found in the back seat, turned the key and there was nothing, no click, no power, no lights. Many of the wires passing through the dash were crispy critters. The dipstick indicated too much oil (never a good sign) and the radiator was quite low. I did not yet know coolant passes through the cylinder head passages in a flathead, so I feared a cracked block. I pulled the oil pan drain plug and about a gallon of clear water came out, followed very slowly by paste-like oil which curled itself in my drain pan like a Pomeranian poppin' a squat at the dog park. I dropped the center steering link, and the pan and cleaned out about 2 pounds of cosmic street fudge. A magnet indicated the substance was mostly non metallic and primarily years of non detergent oil residue. Thankfully, the water line in the pan appeared to be below the rotating assembly. I pulled a rod cap and found to my surprise, what appeared to be new bearings still with some kind of phosphate finish. It seems then, the engine was never run with the water inside. The crank had wear I could feel but was shiny and smooth, and I expect, should not be the limiting factor in at least getting it to fire. I would have pulled more caps but the weather turned very wet, and I had to replace the pan before I drowned. I changed the filter element, and put fresh oil in.

 

Now... how did that water get in the pan? My best guess at this point... loose spark plugs. As I soaked the rusted things in trans fluid and P'blaster before attempting removal, i noticed that about half of them would drink the oil very slowly. It appears that the late former owner, perhaps in the middle of a tune up some years ago, did not tighten all the plugs, and given the shape of the head and the leaky hood seam... voila. Not sure what the valves and cylinder walls will look like as a result. I'm a little afraid to check. I pressure tested the cooling system to check the block for cracks, and found the radiator had about 5 different leaks in the top tank and would not hold even 1 psi. JB weld for now, new radiator later. I found fresh green coolant throughout, including in the block and heater core, which was a relief. I assume was low because the cracks wouldnt allow it to pressurize. The clear fluid in the oil then, could only be rainwater. At this point, i realized the casting date on the head was 1953, and securing the head are nylock aircraft nuts, which I assume aren't standard. So who knows where this engine came from or what else has been done to the car.

 

The parts store had a suitable 6 volt battery, however I only had undersized 12 volt battery cables handy. So i know this will result in a slow crank, which i will remedy later. After cleaning the starter solenoid to fix a bad ground, and bypassing some burned wires with alligator clips, i was able to test compression at a slow crank. 60 psi in most, give or take 10. To my delight, with the spark plugs out, the engine makes 30 psi oil pressure while cranking. So, some hope there.

 

Next to check, was the intake and exhaust manifolds. In typical mickey-mouse fashion, the nuts which were visible were all tight and ok. However, the nuts which were not visible or easily accessible were all either missing, stripped or finger tight. I broke about half of the studs taking the assembly out. With a torch, some vice grips and a lot of cursing, i managed to extract the studs without need for drilling. The intake was fine overall, but the exhaust gasket faces were like the surface of the moon. The bimetal choke control is serviceable, i redrilled and tapped the holes and it can remain. The carb preheater mechanism (heat riser?) was not functional, so i carefully cut the butterfly free from the shaft and removed the shaft, in such a manner that they can be re used if needed. The shaft holes were egged out, so I drilled and tapped them for pipe plugs. I may bush the holes and restore the mechanism at a later date, for now I just need it to not leak. As for the gasket surfaces, a power sander and an air grinder weren't giving the desired results, so I spent about 4 hours draw filing everything flat enough to seal. a machinist's square told me I did a fair job. New gaskets, and a bit of copper high heat RTV and the manifolds are back on. I still have to go through the carby. The fuel pump seems to not pump, so I have it off and a NOS spare to swap it with once i give it a good once over. I drained the fuel tank of some very dark amber colored furniture varnish/dog piss. I think I need to remove it and give it a good wash out with solvent and a length of chain before I waste good fuel in there.

 

Now for the rough part. In the time I spent removing the pan, i found that the front frame around where the drivers side coil spring and lower control arm mount, is virtually gone. The LCA is one speed bump away from taking some time off to pursue other interests. Solution? I made contact with French Lake Auto Parts in Minnesota and they have several parts De Luxes. They are cutting me a complete front frame section, and a spare core 218 engine and shipping via freight on a pallet for a very reasonable price. This really exploded my hobby budget for the time being, but sometimes you have to buy what you can when it's available, not when it's optimal. So there's quite a bit of welding to do, but a solution is at least, in sight.

 

Pictures to follow.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Knaveofdarts
added info

[Knaveofdarts]

Testing some images...

 

Day of purchase

 

 

 

Coming home that same night:

 

Engine as-found:

 

Spark Plugs:

 

 

 

Oil pan malarky

 

Driver's side frame:

 

 

Unsafe at any speed:

 

A very crusty manifold:

 

Filed flat:

 

Reinstalled cleaned up manifolds

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Knaveofdarts

[Frank Elder]

I love the pictures and back story of your car......but more importantly how is the Missus doing? Kidney stones are no joke I have passed no less than 5 in my life so far.?

[Knaveofdarts]

Good, thank you for asking Frank! The biggest one, doctor says was 1.1 cm! Impossible to pass, so they had to operate. The recovery was rough. We'll chalk it up to 2020 having one last go at us.

[T120]

Welcome and a great introduction to the forum,complete with an excellent summary and pictures of your project.You've probably gathered already  looking through the forum that you will find very helpful answers to any questions you may have as your work progresses.There's a lot of very knowledgeable folks that frequent the forum with first hand experience on  vehicles such as yours that are quite willing to share their experience.Also,keep in mind the "search" function can be very useful...?

[Knaveofdarts]

Thank you T120 ! I have a soft spot for Mopars (usually the floor pans.. har har!) but I'll work on most anything, the Austin is proof. I just enjoy the learning experience, the sounds, the smells, even the busted knuckles. And of course, the camaraderie.

[Sniper]

draw filing, I thought I was the only one doing those kinds of things, lol.

 

The Plymouth Doctor ought to have the floor pans and such you need, assuming you aren't thinking of making them yourself.

 

Loved the story, good luck and keep us in mind.

 

 

 

[Knaveofdarts]

Nope, I have more stubbornness ("tenacity", if we're being generous) than sense. If I want a rusty chunk of cheese to fit and seal, then by god i shall bend it to my will, or kill us both trying.

 

Thanks for the link! I'll check them out. I regularly dumpster dive for weldable or bendable scrap metal, and I have a stack of street signs and posts for um, temporary floor repairs, and some nice round 55 gallon drums for fenders, etc. The price was right.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Knaveofdarts

[T120]

14 minutes ago, Sniper said:

draw filing, I thought I was the only one doing those kinds of things, lol.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I recall,many years ago in Junior High shop class, with the instructor giving  a demonstration of  the proper  method of draw filing using the  proper file...Afterwards we had to submit  an example of our work to the instructor,if it wasn't correct,there was no easy pass.Go back do it again until you get it right.?

 

 

 

 

[Sniper]

Not too many shop classes these days and even less teaching the old skills like draw filing.  My son is taking collision repair, which is not the same as old school body working.  Unfortunately, my skill set is weak in that area so I can't teach him the old ways. 

[Los_Control]

11 minutes ago, Knaveofdarts said:

I regularly dumpster dive for weldable or bendable scrap metal

Nice car, glad it found itself in your hands.

 

I am same way with scrap metal, slowly building up my stash pile.

I was just browsing the forum as I sit here and wait for the big brown truck to deliver my new spindle bearings. I spent some time stitching this deck back together

The metal I used is from a old shovel I found out in the yard when I bought the house. I also went around the inside with some nice flat 18 gauge metal I picked up somewhere.

I paid $35 for the mower at a estate sale last spring and used it all season with the deck in the condition it was in. With all the holes I had to use the air hose to blow the grass off me when finished mowing

27 year old John Deere runs & operates as it should, I only need to  nurse it along for another 20 years ... what could go wrong?

 

 

[Worden18]

Welcome!  Congrats on the purchase.  I did the very same thing you're doing (partial frame swap) with a car I had about 20 years ago.  A rust free replacement was sent from Arizona.  Love the car and your detailed intro; keep us informed!

[Knaveofdarts]

Worden i'd be curious to see how you joined the frames, if you have pictures. I was planning on butt welding. Since the welds are so critical i was wondering if i should join the frames cut like an L shape (in profile) to maximize the surface are of the weld line. saw some pictures to that effect and it got me thinking. I am decent with a mig but im not great with anything else. 

 

Los, nice paint job! Perfect match. When i also did mower deck patch welds, i found Grabber Green is pretty close to Deutz Allis green.

[Sniper]

Fishplates

 

 

[Worden18]

1 hour ago, Knaveofdarts said:

Worden i'd be curious to see how you joined the frames, if you have pictures. I was planning on butt welding. Since the welds are so critical i was wondering if i should join the frames cut like an L shape (in profile) to maximize the surface are of the weld line. saw some pictures to that effect and it got me thinking. I am decent with a mig but im not great with anything else. 

 

Los, nice paint job! Perfect match. When i also did mower deck patch welds, i found Grabber Green is pretty close to Deutz Allis green.

I don't have pics, and I didn't weld it.  A friend did.  He butt welded and then used heavy strips of steel to join the mating parts and welded those.  It was solid.

[Young Ed]

Next time I'm at french lake I'll have to watch for a 1/2 missing 50 plymouth! Surprising something out of MN is solid enough for ya

[Knaveofdarts]

Ed, i hope it is solid im going off their word but it cant be worse than the metal i have... Or rather dont have!

[Booger]

the people at French lake are pretty square shooters

[Young Ed]

5 hours ago, Knaveofdarts said:

Ed, i hope it is solid im going off their word but it cant be worse than the metal i have... Or rather dont have!

Oh I'm sure if they said it's good it is. Just that MN is not usually the home for donor metal!

[Knaveofdarts]

Ebay parts engine arrived today in the pouring rain. (Pouring rain is the theme of this project.) It's from a '53. i think suburban? Wow! What a treasure trove of parts! Everything but the starter. Looks like a fluid drive unit still attached? Even the dented air cleaner in the background came with it.

 

Can't believe I got this thing for $200 (plus $200 shipping, natch). I will definitely be digging through it as needed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Booger]

I must say you got the stones to take on this project, we will be following your effort. you came to the right place with your questions

theyre eager to help and arent too snarky  ; )