Clutch and Transmission Project

[ChrisMinelli]

I’m getting ready to dig into my 52 Plymouth’s clutch and transmission for the first time because I’m having shifting problems.  I am fairly confident about doing it myself (and if I break something it’s a project car anyway, I’ll just fix it) but I have some questions before I get started:

 

1. If my jack and jack stands only allow the car to be safely raised and supported at 14”, is that enough to wheel out the transmission on a cheap harbor freight jack stand?

 

2. How much does a Mopar transmission of this vintage weigh?

 

3. Besides the usual clutch related things, if I have the transmission out of the car should I replace any seals, etc not associated with the transmission?

 

Im going to replace a leaky differential seal and check out the universal joint while I’m doing everything else, too.  I’ll keep this thread going because I’m sure I’ll have questions as I go. 
 

Thanks in advance!

[JerseyHarold]

The non-overdrive trans weighs about 80 lbs (by my estimation) and I've removed and installed them with a rolling floor jack.  If you get two bolts with the same thread as the transmission attaching bolts but longer, you can cut the heads off and use them as guide pins to reinstall the trans.  I screwed them in at diagonal corners, installed two regular bolts in the remaining mounting holes, then removed the guide pins and replaced them with the correct bolts.  Hope this helps.

[keithb7]

Does your tranny look like this one? Weight seen. Hope my wife doesn’t see the bathroom scale here. 
 

 

[keithb7]

For kicks I took the shift linkage cover off this spare tranny I have laying around here. I believe it’s from a 1953 Belvedere.  
 

Looking at the guts inside, the gears and shafts appear identical to my ‘38 tranny. I may take it apart for spare parts. 
 

Pic of guide bolts that @JerseyHarold mentioned seen here.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by keithb7

[ChrisMinelli]

Yes, it’s the same model!  I’m surprised over that time period it didn’t change much. 
 

Quote

 

[keithb7]

I decided to punch it apart and get a good look inside.The 3 speed basic operation of this spare 53 tranny I have here is the same my 38 trannny. However I see updated parts. Synchro is different. Pinion appears the same. I ‘m going to do more parts comparing tomorrow. 
 

Chris if you drop your tranny, the rear output seal is an easy one to change. My ½” electric impact popped the main nut off easily. Then I used a dead blow hammer to pop off the park brake drum. Then you can easily access the rear seal. Seen below in this pic. 
 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

3 minutes ago, ChrisMinelli said:

Yes, it’s the same model!  I’m surprised over that time period it didn’t change much. 
 

 Chris the tranny I show above here is a 53 tranny. Not a 38. I am however, comparing the guts of this 53 tranny to my 38 tranny. Both are now currently apart. ?

[keithb7]

I’m getting closer to meeting flat rate labor in 1953. Lol.  That was fun. I learned lots more too. A neat snychro system. I have a better grasp how synchros work now. 
 

If I can help you with any questions Chris, I’m willing. 

[ChrisMinelli]

Whoa!  I will definitely take you up on that! The wife has me cleaning up the basement tonight but I plan on working on the car tomorrow.  The weather is finally nice again and I don’t want too much downtime.  

[keithb7]

On your one question about car jacking. I raised my 38 up and used regular common 2T jack stands. Wheels remained on the car. The bottom of the tires about 5 ½" off the floor. No problem dropping and sliding the tranny out. Your tranny is about the same height as my 38 tranny. Not sure on your 52 Crankbrook if you can take out floorboards. In my '38 I can. It was so nice to gain full access to the top and bottom of the tranny. Makes for a quick easy re & re. A helper up top can assist with guiding from above if wanted.

 

This pic illustrates how I installed the tranny myself, from the top side.  I slid it on the guild bolts. Easy-peasy.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

Illustrating the clearance that I enjoyed.

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

not meant to be a lift out pan....prepping for a full perimeter weld floor pan...in this picture....hey ma, what' for supper?

 

 

[keithb7]

Rarely seen, the man behind the moose is exposed! Plymouthy Adams akin to Grizzly  Adams? I suspect so...

Edited May 17, 2020 by keithb7

[Plymouthy Adams]

bad part about that shot was on closer inspection...the a-post required equal amounts of metal....the maker of this car stuffed foam rubber into the legs of the a post and b post in all I can figure out as a wind noise barrier at hinges and latches....they instead are water collectors and rust out big time.  Many of these cars rusted from the inside out here and many failed to note the damage till the car broke in half as the was common at the b-post....there was a ton of rust in the interior header panel requiring much metal also and for the life of me I cannot explain this for love nor money...How water ever got to that point and collect I will never know and I did some major inspections of body and seams...
Sasquatch may know the answer but I got to find him first....

[Eneto-55]

15 hours ago, JerseyHarold said:

The non-overdrive trans weighs about 80 lbs (by my estimation) and I've removed and installed them with a rolling floor jack.  If you get two bolts with the same thread as the transmission attaching bolts but longer, you can cut the heads off and use them as guide pins to reinstall the trans.  I screwed them in at diagonal corners, installed two regular bolts in the remaining mounting holes, then removed the guide pins and replaced them with the correct bolts.  Hope this helps.

I'm not a big guy (at 64 I still weigh around 135 lb, 5' 10 1/2" height), but as I recall, I laid mine on my stomach and wheeled myself under there on a creeper, or else I pushed it under the car, laid beside it, and then hoisted it up on my stomach before sliding it in.  (Unless that was on a different car - I know anyways that I've removed-installed transmissions that way before.)

[Eneto-55]

13 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I’m getting closer to meeting flat rate labor in 1953. Lol.  That was fun. I learned lots more too. A neat snychro system. I have a better grasp how synchros work now. 
 

If I can help you with any questions Chris, I’m willing. 

 

The thing I'd be curious about is whether the mechanism that activates the backup light switch on the P17 and on is something that is already there in the P15 transmission.  That is, I'm wondering if a person could drill & tap the transmission case from a P15 to accept the switch from the later model, and if whatever activates that switch is there in the P15 trannie.

[Sniper]

I've done the trans bench press in the past but since my triple bypass I don't do these things anymore. 

[Eneto-55]

49 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I've done the trans bench press in the past but since my triple bypass I don't do these things anymore. 

Yeah, very good chance I couldn't do it anymore.  It was a lot of years back.

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

I've done the trans bench press in the past but since my triple bypass I don't do these things anymore. 

Good thing we get smarter with age 

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

Good thing we get smarter with age 

I often look around and me and wonder how many obtained the age they are....guy down the street I send his off to the shop to look for something I know he don't have and I don't need when helping him as he is a danger to work with....If he insist he has to be looking over my shoulder, it's time for me to leave.  One guy I met just recently got pissed for me not helping and he was under a car without any provision of safety.....none on hand to implement...always wanting to cut corners and cheapen the car....gotta go man, gotta go

[falconvan]

On 5/17/2020 at 10:32 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

not meant to be a lift out pan....prepping for a full perimeter weld floor pan...in this picture....hey ma, what' for supper?

 

 

Bigfoot is REAL!!!! Just messing with you, man.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I earned this look......after military service to the tune of 32+ years.....I quit shaving on the morning of my retirement......when I later retired from civil service some 37+ years....I have cut my hair but once....and that was some time back...year nine on that retirement...17 on the military......you pay dearly for a haircut and they keep the hair....!!!!!  On the haircut...I reported to basic training with a clean street hair cut....everyone in line for a hair cut...no matter is neat and trim or hippie wannabe......drill sergeant walks by and I ask, do you think I really need a haircut...he said no...get out of line...only one in the company without a shaved head....you just have to sometime question the system and I think they liked that....two days later was squad leader....been fun and games ever since.

[Dartgame]

Chris - One recommendation - assuming you plan on rebuilding the trans. Before removing it from the car, set the parking brake, and remove the large nut from the end of the trans output shaft. Then go forward with the trans removal. It will be easier to do this with the brake holding the trans drum than on the floor with nothing to hold the end of the output.

[DJK]

On 5/16/2020 at 9:55 PM, JerseyHarold said:

The non-overdrive trans weighs about 80 lbs (by my estimation) and I've removed and installed them with a rolling floor jack.  If you get two bolts with the same thread as the transmission attaching bolts but longer, you can cut the heads off and use them as guide pins to reinstall the trans.  I screwed them in at diagonal corners, installed two regular bolts in the remaining mounting holes, then removed the guide pins and replaced them with the correct bolts.  Hope this helps.

Don't put the guide bolt in the lower left due to the shape of the trans., you can't get it out with trans seated on bell housing. Ask me how I know!!!

Unless you use a short one as pictured above.

Edited May 19, 2020 by DJK
update

[ChrisMinelli]

Long time since I last visited the forum — my job keeps me busy and sometimes projects like this fall to the wayside.  
 

So, odd question — the car sat for three weeks undisturbed until I had a chance this past weekend to work on it (pulling the clutch for inspection and parts ordering).  I fired it up and intended to move it over in the garage by starting it in gear and then restarting it in reverse.  Low and behold, the car now acts like nothing was wrong with it. 
 

Is it possible the clutch just had something stuck in it that is now cleared?  I can’t figure out what the deal is.  I don’t want to road test it more than 20 mph or so just in case it’s now super broken or something.