Motor and tranny swap

[Devin]

My son wants to restore a 52 dodge truck 

i don’t know much and am legally blind 

what is the easiest motor and tranny swap for a beginner?

 Thanks 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Devin

[41/53dodges]

Well, question number A what do you want out of the truck and why you want to swap? Not really such a thing as an easy swap, everything requires some level of work

[JBNeal]

General Motors has a lot of backwards compatible parts, so swapping engines, transmissions, even complete truck beds isn't that difficult...but Dodge, not so much...even swapping from a 23" flathead to a 25" flathead requires paying attention to starter/flywheel combos, crankshaft/flywheel combos, etc., and those styles of engines have A LOT in common.  When flatheads were succeeded by the slant 6 and V8s, the transmissions changed as well, as bell housings and input shafts changed significantly.  The absolute easiest engine swap is to take out a non-running engine and replace it with a similar running donor engine, which takes a certain amount of skill in itself...anything beyond that will require fabrication skills and lots of patience, among other resources...

[kencombs]

Well, my take on that is this:  If you want to restore the truck then you either replace the original with a like rebuilt, or rebuild the old one.

 

If the intent is to update to a more modern drive train, rather than restore, there isn't a really easy way out.  Any later v8 will require lots of fabrication.  Sixes are really no better.

 

I really hate to say this, but for ease of install, ready availability of cheaper (not cheap, just 'er') it's hard to beat a small block Chevy with automatic.  No clutch linkage to deal with, simpler shift linkage, cheap engine parts etc. 

 

I'm just freshening my 230 and adding an A833.  But even that requires a clutch housing change.  And that housing change will cost many times what a SBC housing would.

Edited January 22, 2019 by kencombs

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

Well, my take on that is this:  If you want to restore the truck then you either replace the original with a like rebuilt, or rebuild the old one.

 

If the intent is to update to a more modern drive train, rather than restore, there isn't a really easy way out.  Any later v8 will require lots of fabrication.  Sixes are really no better.

 

I really hate to say this, but for ease of install, ready availability of cheaper (not cheap, just 'er') it's hard to beat a small block Chevy with automatic.  No clutch linkage to deal with, simpler shift linkage, cheap engine parts etc. 

 

I'm just freshening my 230 and adding an A833.  But even that requires a clutch housing change.  And that housing change will cost many times what a SBC housing would.

Hi Ken, yes no swaps are a simple straight forward endeavor, some are more forgiving than others that is a definite.

Now you mention a 230 build and the A833 trans upgrade. 

What is your plan for this , as you mention a different clutch/bell housing?

Look forward to your progress on this....

[wayfarer]

12 hours ago, Devin said:

My son wants to restore a 52 dodge truck 

i don’t know much and am legally blind 

what is the easiest motor and tranny swap for a beginner?

 Thanks 

Restore?  Or, hot-rod?   Restore says all original to me.

As for swapping, IMHO, the simple answer would be none. Nothing easy about swapping a v8, of any brand, into a 52 truck. Yes there is enough space if properly positioned but that is just the start of a very long process. You will also need a newer rear axle, a complete change to 12 volts, a new (er) radiator, and the list goes on..........

Read through this thread for some insite:  

 

[Old CWO]

Easiest "swap?"  A souped up 230 flathead with a S-10 T5 behind it.

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, 55 Fargo said:

Hi Ken, yes no swaps are a simple straight forward endeavor, some are more forgiving than others that is a definite.

Now you mention a 230 build and the A833 trans upgrade. 

What is your plan for this , as you mention a different clutch/bell housing?

Look forward to your progress on this...

Clutch housing: The A833 has a much bigger OD front bearing retainer.  I needed a way to accommodate that so I found that a 59 truck has that, and is drilled for early hemi/poly bolt pattern as well as the six. If I later decide the 6 isn't hot enough, I'll be all set for a little hemi.   It also is set up for a hydraulic clutch on the rt side.  The trans bolt pattern is not correct so I'll be welding bosses for those bolt holes then drill and tap.  Not a big deal since the front bearing retainer centers it correctly.

 

The trans came from a van so it has a Hurst shifter from the factory mounted in a much more forward location than pickups/cars.  Good for my bench seat.

 

While I was scrounging parts, I also got the swinging pedal setup for a 58-60 truck with the master cylinders.  Got the later crossmember (matches the housing) and NOS rear mounts.

 

Sort of planning power brakes using a late Chevy van hydo-boost since I will have a pump installed to operate a Toyota power steering gear.  That came from a mid-80s Toy with a solid front axle.  Same general mounting and operation as my original. 

 

 

I've got most of the parts, just need to find enough time to get to work on it.  The 230 in on the engine stand all washed up and stripped down.  Next task is the valve guides and grind the seats.  Valves are already resurfaced and crank is a good 10/10. 

[55 Fargo]

3 hours ago, kencombs said:

Clutch housing: The A833 has a much bigger OD front bearing retainer.  I needed a way to accommodate that so I found that a 59 truck has that, and is drilled for early hemi/poly bolt pattern as well as the six. If I later decide the 6 isn't hot enough, I'll be all set for a little hemi.   It also is set up for a hydraulic clutch on the rt side.  The trans bolt pattern is not correct so I'll be welding bosses for those bolt holes then drill and tap.  Not a big deal since the front bearing retainer centers it correctly.

 

The trans came from a van so it has a Hurst shifter from the factory mounted in a much more forward location than pickups/cars.  Good for my bench seat.

 

While I was scrounging parts, I also got the swinging pedal setup for a 58-60 truck with the master cylinders.  Got the later crossmember (matches the housing) and NOS rear mounts.

 

Sort of planning power brakes using a late Chevy van hydo-boost since I will have a pump installed to operate a Toyota power steering gear.  That came from a mid-80s Toy with a solid front axle.  Same general mounting and operation as my original. 

 

 

I've got most of the parts, just need to find enough time to get to work on it.  The 230 in on the engine stand all washed up and stripped down.  Next task is the valve guides and grind the seats.  Valves are already resurfaced and crank is a good 10/10. 

Very interesting way of accommodating this swap.

Oh Im aware of the huge 5.125 input shaft bearing retainer size on a A833 OD.

Thanx for the update. 

[thisoldtruck]

One thing needs to be understood right now, up front: restoreing Mopars is expensive!  

 

This isn’t like doing a GM or Ford product where if you want something you can find it in a catalog someplace. 

 

A lot of the Mopar cars and trucks sold like stink, even back in the day, but now have since become highly highly saught after vehicles.  Some of the modern, current production model vehicles are like this even.  There are a lot of reasons why this is, but Chrysler products are just this way. 

 

Dodge put a lot of care into building that truck back in the day, to be the best “Job Rated” truck it could be!  

 

I wish you and your son good luck on your project. 

 

Andy

[Devin]

Thank you for the feedback 

I was hoping a 360 would be an easy swap but doesn’t sound like it.  I don’t have the ability to fab anything especially firewall.

I was trying to put something more modern into it 

i thought about a code 504 kit or a ls1 motor swap

My goal is disc brakes with modern motor

any suggestions?

[59bisquik]

There are two vendors that I know of for disc brakes. Rusty Hope and Scarbird. I have the Scarbird setup. While your at it, search the forums for the Cherokee dual master cylinder upgrade.

 

No input on a modern or brand x engine.

[thisoldtruck]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

Thank you for the feedback 

I was hoping a 360 would be an easy swap but doesn’t sound like it.  I don’t have the ability to fab anything especially firewall.

I was trying to put something more modern into it 

i thought about a code 504 kit or a ls1 motor swap

My goal is disc brakes with modern motor

any suggestions?

 

Do you know what size your truck is?  Is it 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton?  There is a guy who makes repower kits for the Power Wagons that use a 318 or 360 engine. A lot of the parts are different though between the Power Wagons and the regular Pilothouse trucks, but some parts are the same.  Might be a start though?

 

If you want the truck to be useful as a truck and it's either a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck, then an S-10 frame wont be strong enough.

[Jomani]

On 1/22/2019 at 5:52 PM, Devin said:

Thank you for the feedback 

I was hoping a 360 would be an easy swap but doesn’t sound like it.  I don’t have the ability to fab anything especially firewall.

I was trying to put something more modern into it 

i thought about a code 504 kit or a ls1 motor swap

My goal is disc brakes with modern motor

any suggestions?

 

I am knee deep into putting a 360 with 727 automatic in my 47 one ton WD21 (Cabbage Hauler). I have read a lot of different forums and articles and I can tell you firsthand that it isn’t any “easy” upgrade. I probably went a little overboard with my build - took it down to the bare frame and just started back together this last weekend. Because the starter on a 360 is on the driver’s side, it interferes with the steering. That is one reason some opt for a small block Chevy. I don’t want to change the steering, so I will offset the engine to the passenger side. Another consideration is the fact that you will lose the factory parking brake. For me, the easiest solution for that was to change out the rear differential. I found a doner 1974 Dodge Motor Home and used the engine, trans and Dana 60 rear differential from it. Without that, the cost would have been too much for me.

 

Fabrication will include;  motor mounts, trans mount, modifying the first cross member to accommodate the engine shift to the right, hanging brake pedal, parking brake, shifter, new spring perches and spring hangers for rear, possibly narrow the Dana 60 (I will wait to see what it looks like first), push the radiator forward to avoid cutting into the firewall (if at all possible), and minor brackets as required. This is all fairly straightforward stuff but will require welding, cutting, bending, etc.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Jomani

[Devin]

Wow thanks for the insight 

[Devin]

It’s a 1/2 ton

looks like a big project 

[48Dodger]

Easiest? For a beginner?

Since you asked.

 

1. Learn the original intent of the vehicle  (work truck, farm truck, tow truck, delivery truck, etc...)

2. Clarify what the new intent is for the vehicle  (show truck, crusier truck, race truck, etc...)

3. Find a build that's complete and that you yourself have experienced (ie you rode in it as a passenger or were allowed to test drive it) 

4. Copy that build with the help of the person who owns said vehicle. 

 

       I firmly believe you shouldn't "custom" build any vehicle as your first project....especially if you put in a passenger seat.

 

Keep it fun by keep'n it safe.

 

48D  

[wayfarer]

Perhaps an option to what dodger says, rather than to copy someone's truck, is just to shop around and buy a finished (or 90%) project.....

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, wayfarer said:

Perhaps an option to what dodger says, rather than to copy someone's truck, is just to shop around and buy a finished (or 90%) project.....

 

 

EVEN at this be careful....you still may not be getting anything close to what you are looking at...….I did this one time...never again.....it is better to start from scratch than to follow some people.....I will not say all people, but some...and even whenthe man assured me X work was done in X place at X level and competence…..LIES....so unless you have watched the build from scratch to the day you take over...be careful...

[John-T-53]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:47 PM, kencombs said:

Clutch housing: The A833 has a much bigger OD front bearing retainer.  I needed a way to accommodate that so I found that a 59 truck has that, and is drilled for early hemi/poly bolt pattern as well as the six. If I later decide the 6 isn't hot enough, I'll be all set for a little hemi.   It also is set up for a hydraulic clutch on the rt side.  The trans bolt pattern is not correct so I'll be welding bosses for those bolt holes then drill and tap.  Not a big deal since the front bearing retainer centers it correctly.

 

The trans came from a van so it has a Hurst shifter from the factory mounted in a much more forward location than pickups/cars.  Good for my bench seat.

 

While I was scrounging parts, I also got the swinging pedal setup for a 58-60 truck with the master cylinders.  Got the later crossmember (matches the housing) and NOS rear mounts.

 

Sort of planning power brakes using a late Chevy van hydo-boost since I will have a pump installed to operate a Toyota power steering gear.  That came from a mid-80s Toy with a solid front axle.  Same general mounting and operation as my original. 

 

 

I've got most of the parts, just need to find enough time to get to work on it.  The 230 in on the engine stand all washed up and stripped down.  Next task is the valve guides and grind the seats.  Valves are already resurfaced and crank is a good 10/10. 

 

Do you have a build thread already going for your project? If not, please start one. There's a lot of good information that could be shared and it seems you're setup for doing it right.