Using Engine ID Number to Title Car

[Surfmerc]

I acquired a 49 Suburban in April of this year with the understanding that it had no title and no serial number but I loved the wagon anyway. With success I started acquiring and assembling the body parts to make up a complete wagon. It came with a D-24 motor and transmission not in the car. 

Now the issue is will I be able to get a title and register it in California. I was able to find the engine number on the frame below gas filler which is P18-5247U4. The U could be a 0 not sure yet. Has anyone registered a vehicle using the engine number in California?

Thanks

 

 

[martybose]

Mine was registered in CA using the body number, which meant I had no issues when I put a newer 230 in place of the original motor.

 

Marty

[greg g]

Did you get any documents with the car?  Old registration, insurance cards, old service receipts, inspection reports?  Is there any ID number referenced on them?There is a post currently on the Plymouth Owners Club face book PGE from a guy who has reproduction serial number tags.

[Surfmerc]

Marty - appreciate your response. The body number that I have is 717  8233. Did you register your car recently? What was your first step in doing so?   Thanks

[Surfmerc]

Greg- no paperwork. The seller purchased the vehicle as a doner car for his other project. I did get the seller to sign a DMV form that transfer ownership. 

[greg g]

That is a number assigned by BriggsManufacturing. They stamped the major body components and assigned that number. So not really a Chrysler number

[plymouthcranbrook]

In Illinois the engine number is considered the ID on old cars that I have titled here. Maybe Calif is the same?  I sold three old cars from my wife's Uncles estate in 2014 and had no problems . Found the Calif MVD to be very helpful.

[Surfmerc]

Does my engine number that I found on the frame look right? I had to really dig deep to expose the numbers. I am wondering if the U should be a 0 or did they use number and letters. 

Thanks

[Branded]

2 minutes ago, Surfmerc said:

Does my engine number that I found on the frame look right? I had to really dig deep to expose the numbers. I am wondering if the U should be a 0 or did they use number and letters. 

Thanks

I would say the U is and O

[Plymouthy Adams]

I believe a visit to your agent at the DMV is in order and ask that upon finding the number of the vehicle, would it be proper for the seller to sign the paper with the newly found number on the frame and go with that as a starter....

[Branded]

P18 would be the engine number used in a 1949 Plymouth.

P18

218ci

Plymouth Car

Plymouth 6 De Luxe and Special De Luxe

1949

See attached link below.

 

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/pengines.html

Edited December 31, 2017 by Branded

[Branded]

My 49 Dodge was registered using the  engine number when I bought it, the original engine was still in it which made things simpler. When I registered the car in my name I was able to change registration to the serial number located inside the drivers door jamb. This was in Indiana don’t know what the situation might be in California. See you have no title could pose a few head aches,  it I’m would think you could get a reassigned state issued number.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Branded

[bob westphal]

It is really quite easy to create a title for a car without one at this time. All you need is an affidavit from the seller, a bill of sale and a serial number. However in the past you had to use companies that specialized in creating titles like International Title Service. They had sub a company called Freedom Automotive Inc. which would purchase the car from you. They then registered it in their name in Maine (had no titles on cars '87 & older) and sell the car back to you. Freedom Automotive sends you a 'Letter of Title' from the state of Maine and the registration. You then had all the paper work needed to take to your DMV.  My question is, what other components have the same number stamped on them? Many of the body number tags are in pretty bad shape. Would it be possible to create a new body number tag if you could find out what the body number is from another component? 

[TodFitch]

4 minutes ago, Branded said:

My 49 Dodge was registered using the  engine number when I bought it, the original engine was still in it which made things simpler. When I registered the car in my name I was able to change registration to the serial number located inside the drivers door jamb. This was in Indiana don’t know what the situation might be in California.

 

I did the same when I moved from New York to Maryland in 1974. The NY registration had been by engine number but I wanted the car registered by serial number. I took all the numbers (engine, body and serial) in to the motor vehicle department when I was transferring the car from NY to MD. The clerk there disappeared for about 45 minutes, came back out and said they matched and changed setup the MD registration using the serial number. At the time I figured the clerk simply took a long coffee break, but now I wonder if they had been on the phone with whatever Chrysler Historical was called at that time.

 

Anyway, when I moved to California in 1978, there was no issue having the car registered using the serial number. They did have an inspector come out of the building to verify the numbers on the car (that had never happened in Maryland). I recall seeing an image of a 1940s era California "pink slip" and noticing that in that day they had a field for engine number and a field for serial number. So, pre-computer and pre-VIN they had the concept that the two numbers could be different.

 

I don't trade old cars a lot, but I've know some that do and I've heard mention that at some point it is often easier to go through the procedure the DMV has for "lost paperwork". One story I heard was about a vehicle that had been sold a number of times since it was last registered and apparently some of the intermediate sellers had since passed away. When presented with a stack of handwritten bills of sale, etc. the DMV looked at it all and said something to the effect that "it looks like a classic case of missing paperwork", slid all the documentation aside and did something from scratch. 

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, greg g said:

Did you get any documents with the car?  Old registration, insurance cards, old service receipts, inspection reports?  Is there any ID number referenced on them?There is a post currently on the Plymouth Owners Club face book PGE from a guy who has reproduction serial number tags.

Can you give me a link to him? Someone stole the serial number tag off my P-15 coupe after it caught on fire and was in the tow yard waiting for me to get it hauled home.

 

Yeah,I have a clear title with the numbers and it shouldn't be any problem as long as I own it,but if I ever decide to sell it having a tag to match the numbers on my title would be a big help.

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

In Illinois the engine number is considered the ID on old cars that I have titled here. 

 Does not apply to all cars. FoMoCo never had engine numbers,and I am sure they couldn't have been the only one.

[greg g]

No link, you can see the discussion entries on the Facebook page was posted yesterday with pictures, then you can send the person through Pm.  Don't need to be member of group to see the stuff I believe.

[knuckleharley]

14 minutes ago, greg g said:

No link, you can see the discussion entries on the Facebook page was posted yesterday with pictures, then you can send the person through Pm.  Don't need to be member of group to see the stuff I believe.

I am FB challenged. I can never find a damn thing there. Not even my own posts.

[JerseyHarold]

FWIW, I wouldn't do anything to the car until the title is cleared-up.  If you can't title it for some reason, whatever time and money you already spent would be wasted.

Edited December 31, 2017 by JerseyHarold

[greg g]

20 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

I am FB challenged. I can never find a damn thing there. Not even my own posts.

Maybe you can find one here.

http://stores.ebay.com/dataplates4ustore

[greg g]

This is the guy on FB who says he has two or three styles for sale.

https://www.facebook.com/wayne.brandon.7?fref=gs&dti=434989086603610&hc_location=group_dialog&__nodl

[dpollo]

 The engine  numbers did not use U  so yours is P18 524704    since this is an original number which is part of the car and in California was likely the number the car was titled with I would go with it.   You could buy a blank door jamb tag and have this number engraved on it  but not until you are clear of inspectors and bureaucrats who might have  nasty suspicious minds.

Incidentally, your Suburban  if it is a two door all steel wagon is a P17 as were the other short wheelbase models.   P17s legitimately carried P18.engines.

Edited December 31, 2017 by dpollo
more info

[allbizz49]

Get a bill of sale and a statement of facts from the seller. At most, the DMV will have you bring the car to a CHP office for verification. If you don't have a VIN, the CHP will give you a blue sticker with an assigned VIN. It's hit or miss with the DMV here, Some clerks are very knowledgeable.

 

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, greg g said:

Maybe you can find one here.

http://stores.ebay.com/dataplates4ustore

Thank you!

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, greg g said:

This is the guy on FB who says he has two or three styles for sale.

https://www.facebook.com/wayne.brandon.7?fref=gs&dti=434989086603610&hc_location=group_dialog&__nodl

Thanks again!