Frogprince Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) I found this forum and I am glad I finally did. Not many people have any experience or desire it was looking like to work and bring back some of the old classics. I found this gem sitting in behind a local restoration shop and the owner was looking at getting it running well enough to demolition derby it. After some convincing he sold it to me for a decent amount and I have had it sitting around my house for 2 years. Finally getting the project started and I am hoping for some insight and help on a tough decision. I am replacing the motor with something a little more modern and more power to make a good highway and daily driver. I have talked to some local shops and one says cut out the front end and replace with a mustang II with power steering, 11" brakes and etc. The other said leave it alone, rebuild and use Rusty Hopes conversion for disc brakes. My concern is the cost of the front end swap is almost $4,000 from a shop and I could rebuild both the motor, transmission, and wire the car for about that. Any thoughts on what is the best option for these cars? Edited October 11, 2016 by Frogprince
casper50 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 I put disc on all 4 corners of my 47 Dodge for less than $1000. All parts new. Went with AAJ on the rear and it was complete bolton no problems what so ever. Front I went a Scarebird bracket and used the parts list that they send with it. I haven't gotten it on the road yet but I'm real happy with both so far.
Frogprince Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Posted October 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, casper50 said: I put disc on all 4 corners of my 47 Dodge for less than $1000. All parts new. Went with AAJ on the rear and it was complete bolton no problems what so ever. Front I went a Scarebird bracket and used the parts list that they send with it. I haven't gotten it on the road yet but I'm real happy with both so far. For the motor I am going to be putting in a 440 with a 727 transmission. For the rear end I haven't decided what I am going to be bolting in but I am hoping to keep it mostly MOPAR. I haven't heard of Scarebird before and I looked them up and I think that will solve the braking issue. Thank you for the suggestion. What are you looking at doing for steering on the 47? Also I would have loved to found a 40s era dodge but will have to settle for the truck next go around.
Frogprince Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Posted October 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Is the eight still in it? Yes it is. The eight still runs surprisingly and the transmission does shift and move the car. I removed the right fender over the weekend to get better access to the front end. Planning on removing the drivers side here this week.
casper50 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 I have the original engine rebuilt and in it and the steering will also stay stock. 1
Dodgeb4ya Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Those NewYorker eight cylinder Chrysler hardtops are pretty rare cars... production was around 2700 of them. I have a low mileage one ...all stock though .... except the wire wheels.. Edited October 11, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya 3
Frogprince Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Posted October 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Those NewYorker eight cylinder Chrysler hardtops are pretty rare cars... production was around 2700 of them. I have a low mileage one ...all stock though .... except the wire wheels.. Beautiful vehicle. I fell in love with the design, grill and etc of the vehicle. I know they only made 2700 and in some cases I have read that they think they are less a thousand around. One of the reasons the guy selling it was due to he couldn't find a grill. Though most of the parts are the same as a standard New Yorker so I am not sure why he couldn't find them. I have been back and forth keeping it stock or rebuilding it with some more modern parts. One of the issues I can't drive a clutch vehicle anymore. If I do my left foot will hurt for days due to an accident. I have also debated about getting rid of my motorcycle for the same concern. My end goal is to keep it looking stock but add some modern functionality to make it more drive-able. I have tried to sell it locally to someone who would want to restore it but it doesn't say Chevy or Ford. It is mostly original down to the hubcaps and wheels.
Don Coatney Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 I understand the clutch pedal pains as I have a bad left knee. I recently bought a fluid drive Dodge. Years ago I learned to shift standard transmissions without using the clutch pedal. I use the clutch to shift into reverse to back out of my garage and to shift into 2nd gear once out of the garage. Once headed forward I don't use the clutch until I park somewhere or return home. I find that taking off from a stop light in 2nd gear works well and keeps up with the flow of traffic.
Andydodge Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 Frog, welcome from downunder to the forum, a great bunch of guys................like your car.........in some respects it maybe better to leave it basically stock and get it usable but from my perspective as a hotrodder I'd be looking at a late model engine/trans/rearend swap and also see what dics brakes can be swapped in, I would assume that it has the larger version of the Plymouth/Dodge suspension & steering so kits made for them may not work, but should give an idea as far as adaptability.........maybe the 2-3 guys that offer disc swap kits might be able to use your stubs to suit their kits...........also your car has the different style steering setup compared to the Plymouth/dodge cars doesn't it?.........that maybe an issue re engine clearance tho' it maybe possible to fit a mid/late 60's/70's style steering box with the relevant same model idler arm thus getting rim of the stock 1950 bellcrank etc........anyway nice car, too good to use in a demo derby..........lol............regards Andy Douglas
wayfarer Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 If you go ahead with the swap (not entirely a bad idea) remember that a good L8 exhaust manifold can sell for around $800-$1000........ As for the front suspension, the stock design is not all that bad but there are some better pieces you could install...but IMHO, not the MII. For the rear, look at the Explorer and Cherokee units. Plenty of threads on this forum discussing same.
DJ194950 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Frogprince You may want to check out the Company ran by a long time forum member: http://www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com/?page_id=222 They make a mopar torque-flight auto transmission adapter to fit a Mopar flathead 8 cyl. Also disc brake changeover? A call will give some more info. Maybe another choice? DJ Edited October 11, 2016 by DJ194950 Add brake possibilitiy
Flatie46 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 Welcome to the forum. I really like these cars in a mostly original state myself. One reason is you don't see a straight 8 at most car shows or anywhere else for that matter. I do understand your dilemma though and the car isn't much good if you can't drive it. It's your car and you should build it to suit you. Looks like a solid project and should be a sweet ride no matter which drive train you use. Good luck! Had the previous owner hit his head? Been In the sun too long? That'd be nuts to put a car like that in a derby?
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 make a good derby car...remember this car was designed so man could wear his hat while driving.... 1
Dodgeb4ya Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 These NewYorkers/Imperial 8 cylinder cars have super awesome brakes. Apply too much pedal pressure too quick and your rear seat passengers will be in the front seat with you! They use a frame mount brake booster.... which always should be properly rebuilt by someone who knows how! 1
knuckleharley Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 34 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said: These NewYorkers/Imperial 8 cylinder cars have super awesome brakes. Apply too much pedal pressure too quick and your rear seat passengers will be in the front seat with you! They use a frame mount brake booster.... which always should be properly rebuilt by someone who knows how! They also have enough power you can drive them with the original engines and keep up with the traffic flow pretty much anywhere you go. Also,a Fluid Drive trans is almost the same thing as a auto trans. You only have to use the clutch twice to go somewhere. Once to back out of your driveway,and once to pull forward. After that it shits and downshifts itself. 1
falconvan Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 That straight 8 is really cool looking; nice project.
RobertKB Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) With a nice running straight 8 and Fluid Drive, that car will run at 70 MPH all day long. Probably not an ideal car as a daily driver as they are BIG and tough on gas. Preferably, I would keep it stock and buy a beater as a daily driver. Just my two cents worth and those on the forum who know me also know I like the old cars pretty much stock. Go to the search function and put in "straight 8" and lots of topics and information will come up. Edited October 12, 2016 by RobertKB
Frogprince Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Posted October 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, RobertKB said: With a nice running straight 8 and Fluid Drive, that car will run at 70 MPH all day long. Probably not an ideal car as a daily driver as they are BIG and tough on gas. Preferably, I would keep it stock and buy a beater as a daily driver. Just my two cents worth and those on the forum who know me also know I like the old cars pretty much stock. I have two cars that we drive daily. Though my goal is to have a car that I am not worried about driving 100 miles round trip for a car show. I have debated about keeping the stock motor but I have had little luck finding anyone that can or will work on the engine or transmission. I know the fuel pump is gone, water pump works but should be gone thru and etc. The only company that i have found that lists parts for the 8 is Kanter and they can get quite expensive. I know the Exhaust manifold is expensive. I actually sold the spare engine I found locally for less than that to a guy restoring a 30s Chrysler and needed the inline 8.
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 I would guess by reading that no one works on the engines and transmissions that you do not do you own work..to that end who is going to do the conversion to modern drivetrain....sounds like it would be best to find a turn key car to your liking...
Frogprince Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Posted October 12, 2016 31 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said: I would guess by reading that no one works on the engines and transmissions that you do not do you own work..to that end who is going to do the conversion to modern drivetrain....sounds like it would be best to find a turn key car to your liking... I actually do a good portion of my own work. There is somethings I am uncomfortable doing such as rebuilding a transmission but welding, and engine work I a more than willing to do on my own. I was working on a 1967 Mustang up to the point where my wife was getting annoyed it was getting work done and this has been sitting since before the Mustang. Though there are times that I don't have the time and then I ask a local shop to step in and give me a hand. My issue with the original engine and transmission is if something breaks, needs change or replaced so far I have only found one place that sells parts. Sadly to me the parts in my mind are to expensive for the end result. For example the fuel pump alone is 150 plus the deposit and the one for a newer engine is 20. I have seen the same issue with water pumps, and few other parts. I know restoring older cars you never break even or rarely a profit. To me it is about the enjoyment of driving, working on them and spending time with them. I believe the 8 cylinder engine is unique in a flat head configuration. Just wish it was more like the straight 6 that parts are common and somewhat cheap.
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 I more than can see your point of view and in many respect share the same philosophy ....it was just that I was picking up the vibe you did not do any of your own work...
casper50 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) If you search a bit you can get parts cheaper than that. I bebuilt my 230 6 for $1200 to include everything new from water pump to fuel pump and the machine company did the rebuilding. Edited October 12, 2016 by casper50
rb1949 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Posted October 12, 2016 Make it stock, and clean. Restore is different, and a bigger wallet. 1
knuckleharley Posted October 13, 2016 Report Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, Frogprince said: My issue with the original engine and transmission is if something breaks, needs change or replaced so far I have only found one place that sells parts. Sadly to me the parts in my mind are to expensive for the end result. For example the fuel pump alone is 150 plus the deposit and the one for a newer engine is 20. I have seen the same issue with water pumps, and few other parts. << You can buy kits to rebuild the fuel pump and the water pump,but the best bet with fuel pump is to plug the inlet and outlet so nothing gets in it,and use an electric fuel pump with an inline filter and a fuel pressure regulator set no higher than 4 psi. I think if you look around you can find a kit to rebuild the water pump,or even a rebuilt water pump a lot cheaper than that,but the reality is even if you pay 150 bucks for a new water pump,chances are it will last you 20 years,so what's the big deal? It's not like you will be driving the car 100,000 miles a year and wearing stuff out quickly. Quote I know restoring older cars you never break even or rarely a profit. To me it is about the enjoyment of driving, working on them and spending time with them. I believe the 8 cylinder engine is unique in a flat head configuration. Just wish it was more like the straight 6 that parts are common and somewhat cheap. My basic philosophy now that I am a geezer is "If it ain't broke,don't spend time and money "fixing" it". The car runs and shifts now,so drive the damn thing the way it is until it starts giving you trouble. You can always rebuild or replace it then,and in the meantime you may get to enjoy the car the way it is without spending a bunch of money fixing what ain't broken. Those old straight 8's were VERY reliable engines,and the Fluid Drive transmissions must be close to indestructible because you almost never hear anybody talking about rebuilding one. If you drive the car around for a couple of months locally and it is still holding good oil pressure,not making any noise,and not smoking,and the trans is shifting like it should,spend that money on paint,chrome,brakes,and new tires. OR......,just find somebody that wants to buy your rare car and restore it,and take the money and buy a nice Dodge or Plymouth. Doing major modifications to a desirable car as rare as that one is like setting fire to 100 bills. Or even a DeSoto? My opinion,and worth every dollar you paid for it. Edited October 13, 2016 by knuckleharley bold my response 5
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