265 engine

[janan5243]

I recently read a post from a member looking to put a v-8 in car for more power & hiway speed. Another member responded with a post about hopping up a 265 which would bolt in car with little modification. Stated it would probably be 170 - 180 hp. Can't find it. Is a 236 block the same as a 265. What internal parts would be interchangable? Please respond with any info or places I could look for info.

[greg g]

Look around at regional airports for Clark plane tugs, or self powered Massey Harris (Ferguson) combines on farms 

[janan5243]

I spoke with George Asche Friday. Turns out that blocks are same & pistons are same. you change crank & rods for a longer stroke. He asked about condition of present engine & suggested simply milling head with dual or triple carbs & dual exhaust. He felt my engine would handle it. Increase size when engine gave me problems. Certainly a lot cheaper for now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I spoke with George Asche Friday. Turns out that blocks are same & pistons are same. you change crank & rods for a longer stroke. He asked about condition of present engine & suggested simply milling head with dual or triple carbs & dual exhaust. He felt my engine would handle it. Increase size when engine gave me problems. Certainly a lot cheaper for now.

 

if you stroke the block with the 265 crank and pistons......you are already there in CI.....

 

and in changing the crank and rods you will be using hopefully new inserts so sure, it will be able to then handle the added CR with milling of the head...to do it otherwise is an invitation to disaster

[Dodgeb4ya]

265 engines are very difficult to find...even harder is a crank and longer rodsjust by themselves.

Do what George Asche suggested. That would be a good way to go if you have the need for a little more power and speed with out spending weeks or months looking for a 265.

The 236 engine is basically the same as a 251 or a 265.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya

[greg g]

these engines respond well to a bump  in compression  ratio.

[janan5243]

Is it worth just milling the head without going for dual carbs & exhaust? There's a local that has a spitfire head for sale for $100. That should fit my engine. He also has a triple carb manifold That I think I could also get for a &100 but I don't know if I want to mess with triples. With that head I would still have my original head. I already have a spare carb. I also just found out about an old salvage yard near hear. Owner says he has some old mopars & flathead engines. I might go this weekend & check it out.

[Don Coatney]

Spitfire head is not special other than the raised Spitfire logo. No Gain in compression ratio nor horse power. It was a Chrysler only head never installed on a Desoto engine. But it is a good looking improvement on any long block engine. A multi carburetor and dual exhaust setup also adds bling and looks terrific but in reality does little to improve performance as in the end you still have a flathead six cylinder engine. I have done the dual, dual conversion on my engine and it runs great but the performance gain rarely comes into play as I don't need it for my driving style.

[martybose]

You can get some extra torque by milling the head; you just need to make sure that you don't mill it so much that the valves hit the head.  Measure very carefully, and remember the head gasket thickness!

 

Marty

[Plymouthy Adams]

the local with the Spitfire head, can he say with certainty that the head over the course of its lifetime and use has never been milled...?  You must know your starting point...without that very knowledge you will have to CC the head first...

[austinsailor]

CCing the head is simple. Go to a nearby pharmacy and they'll give you a plastic syringe used to feed pets medicine. With the head laying flat, combustion chamber up, use it to fill the cavity in one or more cylinders. Keep track of what you put in. Water, oil, ATF, whatever you chose. Keep track of what you out in. When it's full, add it up. Very low tech.

[janan5243]

Don; Last year you let me know that spitfire was simply a name on the engine. Thanks for input on duals. I  just want to get a little more power out of engine. I want to change rear for a little more cruising speed. I want to take some trips with car. I like Tip Toe tranny but with hills around here the gearing is a little off. Have to kick down to 3rd gear a lot. I'm not comfortable doing 40 - 45 even tho, I believe engine is supposed to handle it. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

Plymouthy; If I do go with the 265 crank & rods, I'm definitely going to freshen the engine up. New bearings, rings & seals. I'll probably go for the head first & do rest of work when engine needs work

 

Is there no way to use a micrometer to tell if head is stock thickness? And where do you find out what stock measurement is If you must measure CC's, What is # for stock 236 head? George Asche said I should be able to mill 90 thousandths.

[Young Ed]

 

Is there no way to use a micrometer to tell if head is stock thickness? And where do you find out what stock measurement is If you must measure CC's, What is # for stock 236 head? George Asche said I should be able to mill 90 thousandths.

That's the issue. You can measure the thickness but finding out the original thickness is the issue.

[Plymouthy Adams]

ability to mill is not the question...knowing if stock is the question.  Years ago I tried to get folks who had heads off to measure the head thickness along with the part number so to establish a baseline if possible as a starting point.  No one seemed interested to respond so what can you do.  Without knowledge of the head being stock. was ever trued over its lifetime...you cannot just say I will willy nilly knock off .060 and say wit certainty that I have now got a head that will up me to 8.3 CR or whatever you end goal happens to be.   Along the line of dual carbs and dual exhaust you will see a tad of improvement but to really take advantage of the money you putting into these upgrades, installing of a cam with correct grind will allow the engine to breath and this will truly be a increase in power.  Also proper synchronization is a must...your linkage has to be very solid built and you must remember to only open the throttle from the single pull point and not the individual carb linkage levers.  I also recommend an upgrade to the ignition...your call on what would work best for you.  Nothing wrong with stock but just keep in mind that points wear and a frequent tweaking/checking  of specs is always in order to stay at peak performance.  The upgrade of the rear gear will also be good but you must consider the very cam if you should chose to upgrade that to work with the end ratio of the new gear...do the math...you can find balance.

[Don Coatney]

Suggest you read this thread. The information found in this thread should be required reading.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/6179-shaving-head/?hl=spitfire#entry51025

 

This comment is not related to anyone on this thread but I really have to chuckle when newcomers arrive on this forum and make comments to the effect that old threads do not contain current information. Were it not for the old threads there would be no current information.

[Dodgeb4ya]

George Asche should know the stock 251 and or the 265 head thickness.

I measured the head thickness on a 1954 265 automatic engine I have and it's 1.925"

Edited September 12, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya

[janan5243]

That is a very good observation. I have the number in my phone. He told me I could do 90 of a stock head but if I go with the spitfire head & the fellow with isn't sure of what was done to it I want to have a working knowledge of specs

From what i'm reading, the dual carbs & exhaust are more of a looks thing than a significant power increase. True or false?

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think the noise and rumble with dual exhaust and carbs makes you think you have a little more um-mph a go-go.......

Plus you don't realize you push down the go pedal a lot harder because you think you are 16 again!

Edited September 3, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya

[pflaming]

Yes on the dual carbs and exhaust, they are like paint, for show. A good patina gets one down the road just as dependably as does a $5,000 paint job. 

[wayfarer]

The issue of head thickness is typical for many heads including OHV. The only way to determine if cutting 'x' amount will bump compression is to measure the combustion chamber as previously noted.

I have heard some folks say that they simply measure the head thickness through a bolt hole but that can be an issue if the bosses were ever spot-faced to remove any galling.

As to multi-carbs, I am a bit on the lazy side and tuning one carb is enough for me. I'd suggest adapting a more modern 2-bbl. There has been some conversation on 'progressive' 2-bbls in previous threads and there is no shortage of carbs to pick-n-choose from during the 60's, 70's and early 80's.   My 2¢.

[Don Coatney]

I think the noise and rumble with dual exhaust and carbs makes you think you have a little more um-mph a go-go.......

Plus you don't realize you push down the go pedal a lot harder because you think you are 16 again!

Geez Bob you just busted my bubble. I thought I really was 16 again...

 

The sound of dual exhaust is terrific and the added bling of dual carburetors is intriguing but the bottom line is I still have a flathead 6 cylinder engine. For every race there is a winner and a looser. The winners always claim they beat everything on the road. But the losers somehow become the winners 30-40 years later.

[janan5243]

I agree about the rumble.As A kid I could not afford to add hot rod stuff. Just lowering rear by reversing shackles or doing the California rake ( lowered front) by heating the coils. I used to drop lower a frame & cut coil. Slowly but surely I'll end up with duals.

 

Would you really want to be 16 again?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Geez Bob you just busted my bubble. I thought I really was 16 again...

 

The sound of dual exhaust is terrific and the added bling of dual carburetors is intriguing but the bottom line is I still have a flathead 6 cylinder engine. For every race there is a winner and a looser. The winners always claim they beat everything on the road. But the losers somehow become the winners 30-40 years later.

Well Don my bubble did break when I was 16 and blew up my transmission thinking I had a hot dog 1951 plymouth with my new Mallory Double Life and 1958 dodge 8.0-1 head.

I also was replacing drivelines because when I raised the rear end of the car with foot long chrome shackles from JC Whitney I learned about correct driveline angularity.

So I gave up the thoughts of having a kinda built up hot rod plymouth years ago.

I still have that same car with the head and Mallory though... and the 8 track deck with Chicago and Steppenwolf tapes!

[55 Fargo]

I think the noise and rumble with dual exhaust and carbs makes you think you have a little more um-mph a go-go.......

Plus you don't realize you push down the go pedal a lot harder because you think you are 16 again!

Hey Bob, you mean they don't have more power, with better induction and better exhaust flow?

Hmmmmmm so some rumble and bling, is all this exercise is worth........double Hmmmmmm

[Dodgeb4ya]

I suppose if you ripped the muffler off driving through a ditch late at night the trip home would seem very fast with so much more unleashed power!!!