Paint question

[pflaming]

Yes I have a paint question. In a build there are many small items that need painting. I have been using rattle cans because of they are handy but the paint is thin and really quite costly.

 

Those who are long time wrenchers, do you save up your small parts and then paint them with the main paint can and air compressor or is what I'm doing what most do?

 

[Don Coatney]

Buy cheaper rattle cans. They produce cheap patina quicker.

[Uncle-Pekka]

I am confused... Confused what was the question by Paul and equally confused what was the answer Don gave? 

 

Well, if the question was what tools for painting I am using, my answer would be "what ever makes the most sense considering the paint used, object to be painted and required result"

 

Unlike Don, I do not always "buy cheaper rattle cans". I some times use rattle cans to paint some easily available parts in the engine bay. This is for two reasons: Jobs I do require quick dry time; and the parts are easily accessible for re-paint if/when the thin spray coat fails.

When painting floors, undercarriage/frame/suspension parts I may use brush in order to "rub" the paint deep and tight in the surface roughness micro structure as possible. Also when painting inside floors brush makes less mess around the painted area.

However, in most cases I use small top cannister airbrush which is easy to adjust and easy to clean after sprying.

 

For heavy duty wear objects I prefer 2-component epoxy for primer, 2-comp acrylic car paint as top coat.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I use no rattle cans on car body except for the occasional color usually applied to the highlight red on hubcaps, medallions

and such..I will use a rattle can on the underbody AFTER a quality primer is affixed..as that will end up with a undercoat on

top of it anyway..

[Dan Hiebert]

I use rattle cans for the small parts that are just basic colors, i.e., black.  It does get a bit pricey, but even with two to three light coats I seem to get quite a bit done with one can.  I use Krylon or Rustoleum.  Rustoleum seems more durable than the Krylon, but both have held up for years.  The unexposed parts I painted with Rustoleum over 20 years ago still look presentable.  I haven't ventured down the cheap stuff path as of yet.

[Dave72dt]

I clean and prep the smaller parts until I have enough to warrant mixing a batch of primer or color.  I lay them out on a cheap, fold up table that is masked, spread the parts out so all sides can be easily sprayed and have at it.   Drilled holes in a piece of hardboard hold bolts for painting the heads.  If the bolts have nuts, they're fastened to the bolts and the panel flipped over.  Long parts get layed out on my body cart, again spaced for easy access.  When dry, parts, pieces or panels are flipped over and process repeated.  When only a very few small pieces need paint, I have used rattle cans, gloss black or semi gloss as needed, obscure parts only.  Dominant parts are all sprayed from a gun, regardless of color or primer.

[Don Coatney]

What is the objective here? Cheep rattle cans produce cheep patina in short order. That is my story and I will sticky with it

[pflaming]

My objective was to ascertain a common methodology practiced by long time automobile enthusiasts. The consensus appears to wit: develop a painting sequence so that small parts are 1) painted in sets, 2) with the same prep, primer, paint applied to the rest of said vehical, and 3) rattle can paint is used sparingly on obscure parts and locations when timing is the issue.

Edited March 14, 2015 by pflaming

[Ulu]

My opinion:

 

Do things in batches. Use a real spray gun. Buy the best paint you can afford, because the prep labor is the real cost here.

 

I often use spray cans to paint stuff temporarily, so it won't rust while waiting for a real paint job.

 

I've done whole custom motorcycles with spray cans (ummm...but I shot the clearcoat with a Binks) and they turned out OK, but I did that because I was using 12 different colors. I didn't want to buy quarts of paint just to shoot 3 oz and then clean the gun again.

 

But I agree with Don, that spray can paint is likely to rust faster because it's cheaper and doesn't go on as uniformly as with a real gun.

[Brent B3B]

I clean and prep the smaller parts until I have enough to warrant mixing a batch of primer or color.........

 

being a weekend, after work, tinkering kind of guy, that is the only way i will be able to get any parts painted 

it was suggested to me to use a liquid "metal prep" to keep the surface from starting to rust. until i get enough to warrant mixing a batch. is that good or bad advice? or does it depend on the climate?

 

Favorite product?

[pflaming]

" . . . a liquid "metal prep" to keep the surface from starting to rust . . ." I use Prep and Etch by Klean Strip a Barr product. But, depending on how much you delute it, do not leave it on too long. 10 minutes can be a long time. I left it on one of my doors overnight, HUGE mistake. It discolored the metal to the extend it is nearly impossible to remove because it works on the metal, it does NOT coat it. Washes of easily with soapy water. You can paint on the etch similiar to primer.

[Dave72dt]

Most, if not all, of those products are phosphoric acid based.   It's not the worst idea treat them. depends on your humidity.  Dryer climates are less likely to need them, storing them in a dryer section of the building, off the floor helps.  As humid as I can get here, away from the doors and off the floor, I don't have a huge problem with it.  A fender I've had stripped for 4-5 months, standing on end just started picking up surface rust this last month, on the floor end, top is still fine/

 

PickleX, Ospho are a couple that come to mind, there's others out there . Just need to follow the directions for best results.

[Ulu]

Phosphoric metal preps only neutralize & convert existing rust. They do NOT protect against future rust*. 

 

For that you must paint the part or grease it.

 

Grease doesn't last forever though, unless it's thick or you cover the grease with plastic.

 

*unless like the spray-on NAPA stuff, they contain primer solids. Even that is not paint though. Parts with primer on them will usually develop rust if not painted.

Epoxy primers do not rust through quickly like regular lacquer or enamel primers. IMHO, an epoxy primer is really self-priming epoxy paint.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you are very mistaken on the protection..while it will not allow for permanent holdout..it does shield against corrosion for the time you need to work it and get it to paint...it prevents flash rust...in a high humidity environment it does great..of course any direct water is dilution and rinses off..putting water on a etched panel is as stupid as washing your car after the paint job is done with acetone..wow..many companies out there sel this stuff daily for just what yousay it will not do and they stake their reputation and product line on its proper use.....and for your so called self etching primer...do yourself a favor and not look up its contents...Epoxy seals out air and moisture better than the other primers as you stated the only true quality it has against rust..it shield two of the three ingredients...but IF you have just one tiny tiny pin hole..one that you could not see ..the expoxy primer has now been total voided of its protection properties..no surface is protected from a single side for long..

[Ulu]

My experience is that the areas with any converted rust are protected by that coat (of iron phosphate,) but any clean metal will start to rust within 2 days in normal conditions. (I've always used Jasco, BTW. Maybe I'll try that Ospho on this car.)

 

IMO if you can't paint within maybe 4 hours, you should re-treat shortly before you do.

[wayfarerstranger]

I painted my Rolls Royce in high school around 1929 with rattle cans looked like a million dollars then and still does 86 years later .some people can do a better job with rattle cans than others with high dollar equipment just gotta know how to do it . obviously most don't , paint is paint some just feel better paying the inflated prices .

[Plymouthy Adams]

I painted my Rolls Royce in high school around 1929 with rattle cans looked like a million dollars then and still does 86 years later .some people can do a better job with rattle cans than others with high dollar equipment just gotta know how to do it . obviously most don't , paint is paint some just feel better paying the inflated prices .

and they said the Mississippi was deep and wide.....

[Dave72dt]

I painted my Rolls Royce in high school around 1929 with rattle cans looked like a million dollars then and still does 86 years later .some people can do a better job with rattle cans than others with high dollar equipment just gotta know how to do it . obviously most don't , paint is paint some just feel better paying the inflated prices .

My math tells me you must be right around 100 years old or better.   14 years old would be common age for beginning high school plus the 86 years-Congrats on your longevity.

 

 

 

According to Wiki, practical use of aerosol sprays didn't happen until the early 1940's when used to dispense bug spray, and the crimp on nozzle that would actually direct the spray until 1948. 

 

 I have no idea when paint was first produced in a rattle can, let alone with a nozzle that would actually produce a decent consistent pattern.  It wasn't that many years ago when someone was advertising a wider, flatter pattern from their can's nozzle.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dave72dt

[Mike Petersen]

The History of Aerosol Spray Cans The concept of an aerosol can originated as early as 1790.

 

By

Invent

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Jeffrey Coolidge/ Stone/ Getty Images

 

The concept of an aerosol originated as early as 1790, when self-pressurized carbonated beverages were introduced in France. In 1837, a man called Perpigna invented a soda siphon incorporating a valve. Metal spray cans were being tested as early as 1862. They were constructed from heavy steel and were too bulky to be commercially successful.

In 1899, inventors Helbling and Pertsch patented aerosols

 

 

 

pressurized using methyl and ethyl chloride as propellants.

Erik Rotheim On November 23, 1927, Norwegian engineer Erik Rotheim (also spelled Eric Rotheim) patented the first aerosol can and valve that could hold and dispense products and propellant systems. This was the forerunner of the modern aerosol can and valve. In 1998, the Norwegian post office issued a stamp celebrating the Norwegian invention of the spray can.

 

Lyle Goodhue and William Sullivan During World War II, the U.S. government funded research into a portable way for service men to spray malaria-carrying bugs. Department of Agriculture researchers, Lyle Goodhue and William Sullivan, developed a small aerosol can pressurized by a liquefied gas (a fluorocarbon) in 1943. It was their design that made products like hair spray possible, along with the work of another inventor Robert Abplanalp.

 

Robert Abplanalp - Valve Crimp In 1949, 27-year-old Robert H. Abplanalps invention of a crimp on valve enabled liquids to be sprayed from a can under the pressure of an inert gas. Spray cans, mainly containing insecticides, were available to the public in 1947 as a result of their use by U.S. soldiers for preventing insect-borne diseases. Abplanalps invention made of lightweight aluminum made the cans a cheap and practical way to dispense liquids foams, powders, and creams. In 1953, Robert Abplanal patented his crimp-on valve "for dispensing gases under pressure." His Precision Valve Corporation was soon earning over $100 million manufacturing one billion aerosol cans annually in the United States and one-half billion in 10 other countries.

In

 

 

the mid-1970s, concern over the use of fluorocarbons adversely effecting the ozone layer drove Abplanalp back into the lab for a solution. Substituting water-soluble hydrocarbons for the damaging fluorocarbons created an environmentally friendly aerosol can that did not harm the environment. This put the manufacture of aerosol spray can products into high gear.

Robert Abplanal invented both the first clog-free valve for spray cans and the "Aquasol" or pump spray, which used water-soluble hydrocarbons as the propellant source.

 

Spray Paint in a Can In 1949, canned spray paint was invented by Edward Seymour, the first paint color was aluminum. Edward Seymour's wife Bonnie suggested the use of an aerosol can filled with paint. Edward Seymour founded Seymour of Sycamore, Inc. of Chicago, USA, to manufacture his spray paints.

 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Mike Petersen