The Sheen Of New Paint?

[Bingster]

In painting one of our cars, do you think that base and clear coat is actually glossier than the original factory paint?  I love the look of base and clear, but I wonder if the factory paints were shiny but not super shiny.

 

I was going to paint my car with a 2K Urethane single-stage black, but have read where it's almost impossible to get rid of swirl marks on single stage black. With the clear you're buffing out the clear.

[Uncle-Pekka]

Bingster,

You're right. the original 40's-50's factory paint was not as glossy as our modern acrylic paints.

When you plan the materials it makes big difference will it be metallic or "plain" color.

I painted mine by using 2K single stage, color is dark blue. I am very pleased on the outcome even if I have not (yet) buffed it.

I tested buffing in September and found out I will get it as glossy as a new car.

 

My father painted cars professionally in 1960's and 70's, he was as apprentice in local paint shops in 1950's. He told that the paint used commonly in 30's was shellac based, occasionally still used in the 50's.

It came out completely matt after spraying and curing. It was the hand buffed to gloss a day or two after the spraying. However, it was never as glossy as modern paints.

Some high standard true-to-history restorers still use that shellac based paint, but the talent is very rare today.

/Pekka

[JerseyHarold]

The lead-based paint originally used on older cars affected the gloss as well.  IMO, the closest you can get to the correct factory gloss level today would be to use alkyd enamel with a hardener for durability.

[Dan Hiebert]

Automotive acrylic enamel with some hardener added works well for me.  I don't have show cars, and to me the gloss is where it's supposed to be, and it has proven quite durable.  You can always go back and buff the car to bring the shine back out.  I do like the mirror reflection and shine of clear coat, but the astronomical price is my first turn off.  Painted my daughter's Falcon for about $100 total in primer and paint.  That two stage clear coat stuff would have cost close to $400. 

[desoto1939]

My 39 Desoto was painted back a green color single stage enamel back in 1997.  All I have ever done is once or twice a year use a claybar on the paint to remove the road grime and small stuff. I use the maguier detailer spary as my wetting agent to use with the claybar.  I then have only used the Mcguires Tech wax on the car and I have retained the shine on the car.  The original cars came with single stage so that is also why I stayed with single stage. 

 

Rich Hartung

[greg g]

Mine was painted 12 years ago with single stage urethane. It was color sanded then buffed. It was judged too shiny by POC judges at the summer meet at Killington Vt. Was also told by several "professional painters" no way that's not base and clear.....l

[Captain Neon]

I have actually read recommendations by same "professional painters" that it better to add talcum powder to modern acrylic paint to dull the finish.  I drive mine and I like shiny so I had mine clear-coated when it was painted 19 summers ago.

[BobT-47P15]

I think mine is acryllic enamel with hardener.   Gets pretty shiny.....which I happen to like.  

[55 Fargo]

I think mine is acryllic enamel with hardener.   Gets pretty shiny.....which I happen to like.  

Yes Acrylic enamel can be good and shiny, although it will not be as shiny as a urethane or BC/CC after years in the sun. This of course is not a real issue with most members car. Your convert looks great Bob, are the panels as straight and level as they appear in pics. My Fargo panels were really beat up, and still are, did not work them a whole lot, being a truck, it got a lot of rough treatment over the years.

Synthetic enamels or better known as alkyd enamels were a staple in the automotive paint industry well into the 50s, once cure is avery tough finish, but chalks and fades at a much faster rate then any of the more modern finishes. Dupont's Dulux was 1 such creature, and the lacquer line for the GM cars was Duco. PPG had there 2 types also.

My Fargo is painted with custom color tint Hardware store Alkyd enamel, reduced with plain Xylene and generic acrylic enamel hardener. Once this hardener is added and cross links with the resin, it basically is a modified alkyd enamel, glossier and tougher.

[desoto1939]

Mine was painted 12 years ago with single stage urethane. It was color sanded then buffed. It was judged too shiny by POC judges at the summer meet at Killington Vt. Was also told by several "professional painters" no way that's not base and clear.....l

Hey Greg,  Even the AACA does not judge for cars being to shiny and even over restored is not taken off. In my estimation how do the judges even know how shiny the paint would have been back then?  I have seen many cars that have lacqer paint and have a great shine.  So if any of their cars or truck have a clear coat then they also should be eliminated from judging only single stage paint was available back then. So to be that critical is allitle over the top. You can take a point off for the paint.  So if any 1939 Mopar has the black brake/clutch and gas pedal then the car should not be judged becasue this is also incorrect. Its your car and not theirs so just enjoy it.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[RobertKB]

My '38 Chrysler is base coat/clear coat.

 

The '53 Plymouth is original paint waxed once or twice a year. You can't tell me that these old girls didn't shine well when new.

 

 

[Andydodge]

I painted this in Acrylic lacquer in 1978.......it had the vinyl top from 1975 to December 2013, after we removed the yinyl top, straightened out the couple of flat spots that were the original reason for the vinyl top in 1975, a mates son who is a painter shot the roof from the trunk edge to the hood edge, rain gutter to rain gutter in 2 pack, he then hit the rest of the car with a glaze & buff.............the colour is an Oz Chrysler/Valiant colour, Mahogany Metallic, dunno if it was ever used in the USA..........the cars original colour was a light tan/gold metallic which whilst a metallic was in no way the same as those used today, it was a much finer metallic..........I cut & polished a couple of areas when I first got the car but as it had more primer spots than colour I didn't take it too far..........lol...........btw the pic showing the vinyl top removed also shows what was left of the original colour...........and my writing in 1974........"vinyl roof to go here"..........lol.........andyd   

Edited February 13, 2015 by Andydodge

[RobertKB]

Andy, big improvement ditching the vinyl top. Car looks great!

[Niel Hoback]

It looked good with the vinyl top, but it looks a lot better painted. It looks really nice.

[Uncle-Pekka]

My '38 Chrysler is base coat/clear coat.

The '53 Plymouth is original paint waxed once or twice a year. You can't tell me that these old girls didn't shine well when new.

 

Robert, your cars look great, this is no offence, nor personal, just a fact related to the paint chemistry and the painting process.

The difference seen in photos is more related to the light and optics used on photography, also definition well shine is very relative.

 

The fact is that when you have your car repainted with the modern acrylic/poly urethane paints, clearcoated and buffed the outcome is MUCH more "shiny" (less micro roughness on surface, deeper opacity) than achieved in 30's to 50's factory paint process. Further, it's not "good" or "bad" thing to have, it's just a different end result due to different processes.

 

Hey Greg,  Even the AACA does not judge for cars being to shiny and even over restored is not taken off. In my estimation how do the judges even know how shiny the paint would have been back then?  I have seen many cars that have lacqer paint and have a great shine.  So if any of their cars or truck have a clear coat then they also should be eliminated from judging only single stage paint was available back then. So to be that critical is allitle over the top. You can take a point off for the paint.  So if any 1939 Mopar has the black brake/clutch and gas pedal then the car should not be judged becasue this is also incorrect. Its your car and not theirs so just enjoy it.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

I do not see either any relation to vintage car contest judging. If you are aiming to true to original restoration it does not matter if "points are not taken off due to better than original paint", what matters is are you satisfied with the result yourself. (footnote: FIVA judging do substract points for non-factory spec paint used, i.e. if you had 1920's car painted by polyurethane based paint = points go off)

If you aim to true and know by yourself an incorrect material was used, it just may bother you...

 

I am not restoring my car - it would be far beyond my skills and budget. For the most important, I know that's not my path, I would not get the satisfaction corresponding to the trouble required.

What I am doing is sort of re-conditioning according to original specification but allowing myself freedom as long as it looks right to me - there is a BIG difference to true restoration.

I am also installing some improvements, which of course is strict contradiction to restoration. Does not bother me any. However I know the difference and do respect the ones capable to true restoration.

 

And again, no offence to anyone aimed - I just like to talk about the many sides of our hobby. I also like to observe and consider the different ideologies related to the car hobby, especially when in the net.

(Sadly it is a reflection from the fact my garage is too far away where I live - too much thinking, when lacking of doing...)

/Uncle-Pekka

[James_Douglas]

There is no doubt that the new paints are more shinny.  The real issue is single stage versus base-clear.  I did my '49 Desoto a couple of years back and went with a base-clear even through I wanted single stage.  Why?

 

When you shoot a metallic paint in single stage if there are problems you cannot buff it out.  If you try you get a leopard spots of metallic.  You then have to sand and paint the car again.  The labor costs are just too much. 

 

If I had a non-metallic color, I would have used a single stage.

 

There is a "flattener" that can be added to the paint.  We added some to the paint for shooting the dash so it would look more correct.  The only thing is when you use a flattener, if you ever polish it, it stays polished.  So, I just wipe the dash with a clean wet cloth.

 

If used on the body, it would be hard over time to not "polish it".

[Bingster]

Well, as our cars are kept under cover most of the time - even if they are drivers which mine is - I guess the fading issue isn't of too much concern.  The single-stage appeals to me.