New Member - Old Mopar Fan

[mattimuss]

Hello All,

 

This forum was recommended to me as being a great place to gain knowledge about pre 60's Mopars.  Over the years I have owned many Mopars, but none older than 1965.  I recently inherited a 1941 Plymouth Special Deluxe that has been in the family for a very long time.  It originally belonged to my Grandfather, then my uncle, and now me.

 

It has been stored in a barn in Ohio for the last 20+ years, but hasn't been driven in the last 10 years.  My family and I picked it up and brought it back home [san Diego] last month and I have started working on it.  My plans are to get it running, dependable and safe to drive for the time being and do a full restoration in the future.  I am in the middle of two other restorations right now and would like to finish these before tearing down the '41.

 

The car is mostly rust free, Although I have found that the trunk floor is pretty rusty.  I spent yesterday cleaning and sealing the trunk floor, but know I will need a replacement floor and spare tire holder.

 

I have had the carb rebuilt, the gas tank boiled, cleaned the fuel lines and have a new fuel pump coming in.  I will reassemble the fuel system when the pump gets here.

 

I plan to start working on the engine this afternoon.  I will be removing the plugs and squiring some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders.  I will turn the crank by hand several revolutions before attempting to start it.  I plan to do a full tune-up and oil change before attempting to start the engine.

 

Once I have the engine running smoothly I will be rebuilding the brakes.  When the brakes are done I will be taking the car to a local radiator shop [first test drive] to have the radiator pressure tested and the cooling system flushed.  After that I hope to drive it a lot and have fun with it fixing small stuff here and there as needed.

 

I should warn you guys I tend ask a lot of questions, tell a lot of stories, and share any info I find that may be helpful to others.  I have found that these are good traits on some forums, and not so good on others.  I hope I can fit in here.

 

v/r,

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

[greg g]

You don't need the radiator pressure tested it is a 0 # pressure system, so if it doesn't leak statically chances are it won't leak when its running.  Make sure you stake the pump fulcrum pin well, these have been wiggling loose and causing the pump to fail.  Or you can make a little sheet metal clamp to keep it centered.

[Don Coatney]

The pump stake procedure Greg mentioned is the fuel pump. A forum search will show why this is a good idea. Prior to replacing all the ignition components you might want to do a test startup just to see what you have engine wise. Where in Ohio was this car stored? Pictures of your car would be appreciated.

[mattimuss]

A "pump fulcrum pin", hhhhmmmm, something new to learn about.

 

I spent most of this afternoon applying the second coat of sealer to the trunk, attempting to remove the spark plugs, and fixing the gas tank straps.

 

The spark plugs have me a little worried.  My Grandad and uncle are both country boys and tend to try to make due with whatever is in the barn.  When I pulled the wires I discovered that there are three different spark plugs installed; AC, Champion, and Accel.  1, 3, 4 and 5 all came lose.  2 and 6 are very tight.  I was able to loosen them a couple turns, but then they started getting tight again.  I tightened and loosened them a few times, then left them lose with Marvel Mystery Oil poured down around the threads.  I hope this works it way down the treads and allows me to get them out without damaging anything.  I will repeat the tightening/loosen cycle over the next few days.

 

With the trunk being so rusty the gas tank strap nuts were pretty much molecularly bonded to the strap bolts.  I applied PB Blaster several times over a couple days, no joy, they still broke.  So I modified the ends so I can reuse the straps when the tank comes back. I can post pics if anyone is interested.

 

The following are pictures of the car the last time I remember driving it, sometime around 2005 or so:

[mattimuss]

And here are some pictures of what it looked like now at it's new home...

[ChrisRice]

That's a sharp looking car. I hope you get many years of joy out of it.

[mrwrstory]

Great looking car!  Good luck with getting it roadable.  When you do come up to OC for coffee.

[jeffsunzeri]

What a great car to have some fun with!

Don't bother squirting oil down the spark plug holes, as all you will do is bath the valves on oil. After removing the plugs, change the oil, and turn the engine over with the starter to get the new oil circulating before starting.

If the engine won't turn over with the starter, put it in top gear, and rock it back and forth to see if you can free things up.

Back when I didn't have a lot of money to spare, I'd have used any available spark plug too. There's not much harm to be done with that unless they used a long reach plug and the exposed threads have gotten corroded and that is what is holding the plug from being removed. Just be gentle with them, turning 1/8 turns back and forth to get them extracted. You don't want to exceed about 20 ft. pounds of torque. If you do end up with buggered spark plug threads, replacement heads are inexpensive, readily available and easy to change!

[RobertKB]

Great looking project and welcome to the forum.

 

You say in your first post. "I should warn you guys I tend ask a lot of questions, tell a lot of stories, and share any info I find that may be helpful to others. I have found that these are good traits on some forums, and not so good on others. I hope I can fit in here." Let me assure you that these are qualities that are liked on this forum and you will fit in. We love pictures, too, and you have covered that also. Looking forward to updates when available.

[Niel Hoback]

  That's a really nice looking car that deserves good attention.  If it were mine, I would first take off the head and then remove the plugs. That way you can clean any threads that may be in the combustion chamber even though they aren't supposed to be, and you can clean out the carbon and make sure everything is  in good shape for when you get on the road with it.

  A car like yours could last a long time after you have it, making you a sort of "caretaker".  You're very fortunate to have such a good start, take care of it.

[mattimuss]

Thanks for all the great replies and the warm welcome.  I hope to one day be the one helping a 'newbie' solve their problems.

 

The car is in pretty good shape and I have a solid base to start with.  I know one day I will restore it back to as close to stock as possible.  This choice is based on promises made to my Gramps and uncle.  No worries, I am doing restomods on both my A108 and my Barracuda, so they will fill my need for speed!

 

I love my Gramps with all my heart...but there are things he does that just don't make sense to me.  I have been joking with my wife that there probably isn't a tube of silicon that my Gramps hasn't fallen in love with.  His three favorote things for working on cars were silicon, duct tape, and bailing wire!  Take the trunk for example...I'm sure the truck weather strip wore out years ago.  And I'm sure they were readlily available at and dealer.  Instead of properly replacing the worn out weather strip Gramps grabbed a tube of silicon and covered the seal in it.  This did not seal the trunk or prevent water from getting in, nor did it look good at all.  Thus the reason the trunk floor is rusted out and the tank straps snapped.  See pictures...

[mattimuss]

Here are some pictures of the trunk after I wire wheeled it and applied two coats of rust encapsulator/sealer...

 

Now you see why I will need a replacement floor and spare tire well.

[mattimuss]

The strap bolts were pretty much bonded together and twisted apart.  I searched but couldn't find new ones or replacements so I decided to modify to originals so they would work.

 

I removed the old mounting hardware from the straps, fabricated two 90 degree strips with gusset supports, and welded it all together.  I will drill the proper sized hole [dependant upon bolt size] through the top of the strips.  I figure if I put the bold through the trunk floor, then through the straps and cinch them up everything should hold as good as original.  We'll see...

[greg g]

If you have a tractor supply or similar in your area, (or e trailer on the web), buy youself one of their trailer fenders, cut out the rusted stuff, trim the trailer fender to fit, add some sheet meal for the sides, viola! new spare tire well.

 

[mattimuss]

Hey All,

 

Great news, #2 & #6 spark plugs loosened up!  Over the weekend I poured Marvel Mystery Oil down around the plug threads and let it soak in.  Every day I went out and did the loosen/tighten drill.  Today they both broke free and tread in and out easily.  That's a relief for me.

 

Recieved the new fuel pump, the rebuilt carb is back and the cleaned gas tank is back.  The tank was in really good shape and just needed minimal cleaning.  I am wire wheeling the exterior to get it ready for paint before putting it all back together.

 

The next step is the tune up.  The plug wires look to be in really good shape so I plan to run an Ohm check on them and if they all come back ok just to reuse them.  The plugs, distributor cap, points and rotor are going to be reaplced for sure.  Once she's running then I will attack the brakes.

[Frank Elder]

Here are some pictures of the trunk after I wire wheeled it and applied two coats of rust encapsulator/sealer...

 

Now you see why I will need a replacement floor and spare tire well.

A dab of silicone will take care of those holes........

[greg g]

you need to order tune up parts on the basis of the distributer number.  As over the years several different ones were used, they were slightly different between the different series.  There is a number on the plate on the dist.  Something like 1AT or 1AG or similar followed by several other numbers.  Easiest way to replace the pars in the dizzy is to pull it and do it on the bench.  Just put some index marks to allow you to line up the vacuum advance pot and the rotor when you reinstall.  Many of us use AC 45 or the autolite equivalent as lots of folks have reported quality problems with Champion.

Edited June 12, 2014 by greg g

[mattimuss]

Thanks Greg!  Your info will be very helpful.

 

One question I do have concerns spark plugs.  I am not trying to make a points car, just a fun dependable one.  Searching for replacement spark plugs has confused me a little.  Are there any current replacement spark plugs that are being used that I can get from local retailers, i.e. NAPA?

 

I have read that AC6, AC7 and AC45 are all usable, but am having a hard time finding these in places other than eBay or other antique parts sites.

 

Have any members found reliable replacement spark plugs from other manufacturers?  What are members using?

[Dave72dt]

Plug companies have all updated their numbers over the years.  Call your local  parts house  and have them cross reference the plug number of your choice.  AC45's have probably been updated to R45's, basically a resistor version of the old AC 45's.

[mattimuss]

Hey All,

 

I was able to clean and read the ID tag on my distributor.  It is a IGS-4111-1 distributor.  When I looked up the model specs in the service manual this model is not listed.

 

I ran a search on this forum, no info.

 

Does anyone have any info on this model type?

[Jerry Roberts]

Your distributor is for a 1941 Plymouth . Cam angle 35 - 38  , point gap .020  , Condenser capacity mfd's .25 - .28  , breaker arm tension ounces 17 - 20 .   This info is from a 1954 Motor's Auto Repair Manual . Do you want info on your mechanical and vacuum advance too ? 

[greg g]

It doesn't really matter as long as you order your parts by that number.  There were a bunch used all slightly different, body heights, tall bodies short caps, short bodies tall caps, points location within the body cap heights, how the coil wire was attached, and slight variations in the advance curves, where the oiler is, and the location of the vaccum advance on the body. Nothing to worry about as far as effectivness assuming its in good condition, but it is why the actual dist part number is needed.

[mattimuss]

Hey All,

 

So I got to spend a few hours tinkering with the car this afternoon.  I got all the plugs out, got the oil filter element out, put the first coat of sealer on the outside of the gas tank and found a bottle that will allow me to squirt some Marvel Mystery Oil [MMO] into the cylinders.  I have attached pictures of the spark plugs, all makes, all models!  I was also able to snap a pic of the distributor ID plate, pretty good clarity for a call phone in an enclosed place.  And there is a picture of the bottle.  I ordered a new oil filter element and spark plugs.  The cross reference for the AC-46 plugs were the Autolite 285 plugs.  Any problems with these plugs?

 

I have a few more questions:

 

1.  How do you clean the air filter element?  Does the element section come apart so I can soak the element in kerosine?

 

2.  Does anyone make replacement elements or do any of you have an element section that you would be willing to part with?

 

3.  How do I rotate the engine to make sure the pistions are free?  I have always put a socket on the crank and roatated, but this doesn't look possible with this engine.  I remember a member advised that I hook the battery up and tap the starter rotating the engine this way.  Is that the only way to do this?

 

4.  What oil should I run in this engine?

 

5.  Is there anything special I need to know to install the new fuel pump?

 

I would love to have this old girl started and running this weekend, but do not want to overlook anything that would damage the engine.  All advise is welcome.

[Young Ed]

There is a crank nut. You can also remove either the starter or the flywheel cover and use the flywheel teeth to turn it over.

[steveplym]

Welcome to the forum, you have a nice car.  Here is a link on converting the oil bath filter to a paper filter.  I did it on my car

and it works great. 

 

http://www.indfloorcoating-repair.com/1948plymouthenginerestoration.html