Block Replacement

[DollyDodge]

The machine shop is finally getting around working on my engine, 21 months since I took it to him. He now says it needs a new block. He is looking for a new block, he says that any of the blocks from the 40s through the 70s will work. He has a contact in southern CA is getting it for him (the guy says flatheads from old welders etc will work). Is that true (all flat head blocks with the same displacement are the same)? Will the mounting holes for things like the oil filter, etc be the same on every block year. This is a bummer to me. I really wanted the old block to be used. It has a crack between cylinders that has been repaired, he also says it has porosity problems, whatever that means, one of the freeze plug holes is very badly corroded.

[JBNeal]

I reckon they made changes in the rear main seal and internal bypass coolant passage in '51 or thereabouts, changed some of the head machining to boost CR through the 50s, but the block itself didn't change much...Dodge, Plymouth, DT or Industrial 23" blocks were mostly the same...good luck finding one that'll be usable

[DollyDodge]

thanks, mine is usable, with lots of work, so if he can't find another one we will just use mine.

[greg g]

uh what did he say was the problem with your block???  

[Jeff Balazs]

Dollydodge;

Hang in there man. I have been missing your adventures.

 

For what it is worth I have seen a few engines on Craigslist from time to time that looked pretty good. There was one that came out of a pilothouse in San Diego recently. Also you could put a posting in the classifieds here.

I am of the opinion that it would be best to find a DT engine or at least one that is fairly close (3-4 years) to the production date of the engine you already have. Going this route should I would think help reduce or eliminate some of the little surprises that seem to come along in swapping components.

 

Jeff

[DollyDodge]

Thanks, I might try the craigs lust route.

To my surprise, after we pulled the motor and took it a part we found it had been rebuilt before. It has several cracks between cylinders which have been fixed before, and the cracks have continued to grow past the repair. He also said the engine has porosity problems, I dont know what that means, but he said he built a template for the engine and if I understood him correctly he said it won't hold pressure? One of the seats for a freeze plug is nearly corroded away, it is in terrible shape. The engine is full of rust, he has cleaned it, and big chunks of rust keep coming out. I dont know enough to know if I am getting the truth or not. He is well repected in our town.

[Don G 1947]

Well, I happen to have a Pilot House engine that I have inspected.  The guides are within spec and the cylinder taper and out of round are just at the limits of what the manual says is acceptable.  Crank looked OK, but I don't remember the results of my plastiguage check of the bearings.  It does however need a valve job.  Exhaust seats are badly burned.  My guess is it would run if the seats were taken care of. 

 

If you are interested email me at jackofalltrades101947@yahoo.com

 

Bad news is I am in Illinois.

[HanksB3B]

Sorry to hear about your engine block. (ouch$) If it were me. I'd look for another mechanic unless you find 21 months acceptable.  I would not spend money on repairing a block that is in the condition yours is.  Removing an engine in a few months after the cost and expense of a rebuild is not an option. (it's about the labor).  I would not feel comfortable buying an engine block without knowing it's history and existing tolerances.  You might want to check with Vintage Power Wagons. They have a lot to offer, you'll know what you are buying.

 

 

Just my $0.02,

 

Hank 

[Merle Coggins]

Bad news is I am in Illinois.

 

Yea, that is bad news... You should move north of the border and become a cheesehead.    

 

Sorry... couldn't resist.

[54Illinois]

I have a grimy looking 218 I pulled from a 54 Savoy, have the head as well!

 

[54Illinois]

I have a grimy looking 218 I pulled from a 54 Savoy, have the head as well!

 

[DollyDodge]

I agree 21 months is way too long.  I spoke with the owner several weeks ago, and before that I sent him a letter stating why I was so upset with the delay, and we had a frank discussion about the delay.  I had suggested to him that I take the engine to someone else, the problem is it is in a millon pieces now.  He has the crank back and it has been ground, he got new pistons, and some other parts, so he is finally moving.  He told me in all honesty he was taking advantage of me because I seemed so patient about the issue.  One of my problems is I don't say much when I get mad, he took my silence as it was ok to be slow. I had looked at VPW for an block, and will suggest the mechanic call them and talk to them.  I would feel much better getting an engine from them.  The mechanic says his source in Southern CA will check out any block he finds before sending it here.  Thanks for all the input. 

[HanksB3B]

I'm a bit like you in that I had my truck towed to someone that said they could get my restoration underway.  I waited a year and called fairly often but nothing was happening.  Finally I listened to my wife who said "Get it out of there".  I gave them $100 bill thanked them kindly and somehow found Ricardo who rebuilt my engine painted my frame and allowed me to work on my truck for the next year of Saturdays before flatbedding it to the Alvin's Auto Body where it was painted.

 

 

Looking back, I was lucky my truck didn't mysteriously disappear from the original place it sat with nothing happening.

 

Advice is nice but it might not fit with your plans (or budget). Take the guy up on his threat to "Take it somewhere else". Get everything even if it's in a million pieces,  order the engine from VPW (who knows what his buddy in SoCal will come up with and you've got no rock solid guaranty like you would from VPW. I built my engine up from scratch with the help of my friend Slick.  Honestly they are very simple and you might get an engine from VPW that is within spec and just needs a little TLC,  (explain your situation to Steve or Jens).  Mount the component parts and maybe it'll fire right up and run like a champ for the next twenty years.  Although you live in the middle of nowhere (best part of California) you'd have the support of us Pilothouse Guys and trust me we wouldn't let you take 21 months.

 

Hoping for the Best,

 

Hank 

Edited September 16, 2013 by HanksB3B

[DollyDodge]

_{Thanks again.  I took the mechanic the VPW information this morning and asked that he call them, if he doesn't do that I think I will change my plnas.}

[DollyDodge]

I called VPW and the cost for a core engine would be $700, plus $350 to ship it here, so I will see what we can come up with. 

 

On a positive note I thought I would put a coupel pictures of the bell housing, transmission, starter and generator, and the throttle linkage that I have completed cleaning up and restoring where needed.  One thing about the delay with the engine I have been able to slowly work on other things.

[DJ194950]

Would you consider taking a long ride up  to Modesto, Ca.?

I have two 218 blocks you can have if wanted, of which one is still together and they are now stored in a shipping container. 1 was supposed to be a runner. Head is removed to look at it, appeared OK but not sure I'd try it. Has some decent amount of wear but nothing appears broken. Could take one or both to a reputable machine shop I use to be checked first, but it would have to be at your expense as I cannot afford it myself right now  . I'd get it/them down to the shop for you and let you arrange with them for any block checks/ work if you'd like before making that drive.

Would cost less than the $1100 for one from VPW.

 

Doug.

[DollyDodge]

Doug, this is great news.  Let me talk to the mechanic and let him know what you have offered.  If it works out I can drive to Modesto easy.  I will get back to you.  Is the one just the block?  You said one is complete, I assume that means the other is just the block?

[DJ194950]

The other motor actually has all the parts too, just taken apart.

I built a 230 using the crank and rods from that motor and another I had that did not need to be bored and the 230 crank didn't need to be turned.

It would have been a fantastic find but the motor had been left out for a while?  It had been rebored and resleeved  in all cyls. back to std bore. One cyl. had rusted. The block could be rebored to clean out the rust, but why? I had another 60 over block and pistons in good shape. MORE cubic Inches!

 

If you like we can talk on the phone.

I'll pm you my Ph. #.

 

Doug

[HanksB3B]

I called VPW and the cost for a core engine would be $700, plus $350 to ship it here, so I will see what we can come up with. 

 

On a positive note I thought I would put a coupel pictures of the bell housing, transmission, starter and generator, and the throttle linkage that I have completed cleaning up and restoring where needed.  One thing about the delay with the engine I have been able to slowly work on other things.

 

That is a wonderful outlook and one of the wonderful things about our Pilothouse Trucks.  When you think about it other than getting your hands dirty there is a whole lot of research to do before you do anything.  I made sure my rebuilder got an extra copy of the Dodge Truck Manual.  I got the chance to teach myself to rebuild and restore most of all the components parts.  I sure wish I had the room (something to always be thankful for) to have an L6 on a stand (something to always be thankful for).  

 

Something like this ?:

 

 

Now ______, you can tell the rest of the story, 

 

Hank 

Edited September 17, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Don G 1947]

Yea, that is bad news... You should move north of the border and become a cheesehead.    

 

Sorry... couldn't resist.

Well, that wouldn't be all bad.  I really like cheese.  But living in Illinois is never dull.  On a per capita basis we have more politicians in jail the any other state---and that is not claiming extra credit points for having 2 governors in at the same time.

 

Don

[Young Ed]

Don I've heard parts of WI are going to try ice removal with leftover cheese brine. So be aware if you move there you might litterally smell like stinky cheese 1/2 the year.

[GlennCraven]

The machine shop is finally getting around working on my engine, 21 months since I took it to him.

 

 

Nothing like getting right on the job without delay.

[Frank Elder]

Well, that wouldn't be all bad.  I really like cheese.  But living in Illinois is never dull.  On a per capita basis we have more politicians in jail the any other state---and that is not claiming extra credit points for having 2 governors in at the same time.

 

Don

Don't forget the other politician that left Illinois........lol

[DollyDodge]

I also took the mechanic the motor manual, and a bunch of relevant documents, plus the phone numbers for VPW, Roberts, and other suppliers. Not sure he paid attention to any of it, he likes to use his own sources, which I understand.

[Merle Coggins]

Well, that wouldn't be all bad.  I really like cheese.  But living in Illinois is never dull.  On a per capita basis we have more politicians in jail the any other state---and that is not claiming extra credit points for having 2 governors in at the same time.

 

Don

 

  Some of them have even spend time in our Wisconsin prisons.   Gotta love our neighbors to the south.