1954 Plymouth Suburban Project

[murfman1967]

I like the full radius rear wheel opening but that was not as they were. I looked at Google 1964 Dodge suburban images, not one car like this. Someone modified this car including the grille and the plain hood. IMO it's a nice, cleanly modified look which I like. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry I thought I was clear that this is a mild custom from a 50's hot rod mag.  Just a few subtle mods and I think it looks great.

[pflaming]

Update: I put power to the starter tested for compression and do not have any; I was told going in that it needed new valves so 'not to worry'. So then I hooked up the oil gauge and left the end by the gauge askance to let the air out. Oil came up the tube nice and dark then became nearly lucid and no pressure.

 

Then I was mad at myself for I had not drained the old oil. Drained the oil and fluid came out first then SLUDGE in GOBS! So next step, drop the pan and clean it out which I did. There was no indication of water in the drain but I do see 'calf runs brown' in some of the bearing mounts, so there was some. Possibly due to a bad head gasket.

 

So the next step is to remove the head and replace the values and hone the seats. Then back on with the head and the pan, add new oil and test again.

 

Any suggestions would be MOST helpful.

[Scruffy49]

Ah, your "runner" cheapo is like mine...

 

M80 or 3 in the bellhousing, long fuse, run. Buy a 318/727...

 

Kidding. Just like mine, won't know how bad it actually is until it is torn into further. Good luck. I know mine is going to need gaskets, seals, valve job, probably a rering, wuldn't be surprised if it needs new rod and main bearings... The 218 had 1974 Pennzoil or Quaker state in it, no getting all the wax and sludge out short of a burn pile. The 230 may be beyond hope...

[murfman1967]

No compression in any hole?  Might just be stuck valves that's what my 218 had.  A quick rap with a hammer freed them up, she runs great now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Please spare me any report on whapping them with a hammer...do soak these good with penetrant of your choice..(many and various available your call not mine)

[pflaming]

Pennzoil or Quaker state in it, no getting all the wax and sludge out short of a burn pile. 

 

So what's the deal with this oil? Is it a special formula? I knew it would need valves and rings aren't that big a deal. Just hope the bottom, i.e., the crank etc. is OK. 

 

What causes oil to turn into sludge? Has to be more than time. Must include dirt, used a long time, . . . Oh the joys of learning, much better than Chaucer, Milton or Faulkner. Jack London, Mark Twain and Edgar Allen Poe had interesting views of life. 

 

Well, gotta wait til morning, then will find out more answers. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

PA and other northern oil are paraffin based..

[Don Coatney]

 

Any suggestions would be MOST helpful.

I suggest you disassemble it once, do a complete rebuild, and be done with it.

[pflaming]

I took the truck engine down to the drive shaft. New pistons, rings, gaskets, etc. When one takes out that crank shaft, what all is involved and how technical does that get. I've learned a great deal in the last two years, but I'm still just an experienced novice, not much more than that and this causes me to pause.

[Don Coatney]

It takes 3 guys with over 100 combined years of experiance 3 days to assemble an engine correctly. Could have done it quicker but we all had to tell a lot of lies between wrenchin. 

[Scruffy49]

PA and other northern oil are paraffin based..

And in the 70s pretty low in detergents. So combustion byproducts like acids mix with the high wax content in the oil, holding water, carbon and other byproducts, turning the whole mess into whatever you chemically would call the reverse of soap. My 218 is so sludged up that a full disassemble, toss the block in the burn pile and let it cook for awhile "might" get the stuff out of it. My 230 has an absolutely spotless cam chest, the oil is dirty but not chunky (yet), but there has been plug tip to valve contact. So I at minimum need to pull the head and check the valves, decoke the piston tops and combustion chambers, feler gauge the top rings and the bearings... and then reassemble with new gaskets. The guy I got the 230 from had the wrong reach sparkplug in one hole. Who knows what else got messed up...

[pflaming]

I find it fascinating that this thread has 2300+ hits. I removed the head this morning. Two valves are sticking, there is a carbon ring on the top of the cylinders, no scratches on the cylinder walls, the valve heads show no significant pits on the side and the gasket no blow outs.

 

Will remove the valves tomorrow and ream the cylinders, then lap the valve seats and get new valves so that are all alike. Then I'm going to reassemble and test again for compression and oil pressure, so I have my week cut out for me.

 

This engine is very suspect at this point and I am contemplating Don's suggestion. 

 

 

[Scruffy49]

Looks like my 230, which is so gooey on the outside that my wife renamed the truck it is going into "The Funk and Nastiness Express"...

[pflaming]

Yesterday I removed, cleaned, and lapped the valves. I have two that are sticking so will replace those, maybe all the valves. Today put the pan, and head back on, add oil and run another compression and oil pressure test. I'm not trying to be cheap but my truck had  40 #'s of oil pressure and it runs great so I'm going to see if this engine will do that as well. 

 

Some of the valves looked like someone had been beating them with a hammer. A good friend commented that there must have been a lot of carbon build up and that did the beating. I didn't realize that a piece of carbon would be that HARD and probably sharp. Is that a fair statement?

 

I used the compound required and the hand lapping tool. Then I spun them again with the power drill. 

 

(to be continued) 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2013 by pflaming

[Merle Coggins]

You removed the valves and you still have a couple that are sticky? I'd suggest you remove them again and polish the stems to remove any carbon buildup. Also, clean the guides that they ride in. Then when you reassemble them be sure to oil the stems so they have some lube to start with. Unless they're bent, burned, or damaged in another way, why replace them?

 

Merle

[Don Coatney]

How did you lap the valves? Do you have a lapping tool and the correct compound?

 

[greg g]

What is that adaptation on the oil pump???  Is it for the HY Drive oil supply??? 

[pflaming]

Don & Merle: I cleaned the shanks on the sticky valves and the are nice, smooth, marching soldiers now. Greg, I do not know what that adaption is on the fuel pump. The tranny is a three on the tree. So now the head, the oil pan go back on and we'll try compression and oil pressure tests.

[martybose]

The Hydrive-equipped engines have that oil pump with a different end plate that contains the oil pressure relief valve that is normally in the block in all other cases.  I'm familiar with that pump because I used one as the starting point for the external oiling system on my car.  I don't know what is in the block location on these engines.

 

Marty

[Don Coatney]

Don & Merle: I cleaned the shanks on the sticky valves and the are nice, smooth, marching soldiers now. Greg, I do not know what that adaption is on the fuel pump. The tranny is a three on the tree. So now the head, the oil pan go back on and we'll try compression and oil pressure tests.

Cleaning the valve shank has nothing to do with lapping the valves. So once again how did you lap the valves?

[pflaming]

Don, I used a lapping compound and a hand lapper. Then i put a wire brush on my drill motor and in cleaning the top of the valves they would spin, so they were nice and shiny when i was done. To clean the valve guides, I found a wooden dowl whose fit was not quite snug, I put that in my drill motor, oiled the dowel and 'honed' out the guides. The valves then oiled when replace worked sure and smooth. I used 800 grit  wet/dry sand paper for the shafts. Put the valve in the drill motor and gave those valves a spin, they polished right up.

 

Lots of tedious work. 

Edited August 13, 2013 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

what happened to the solvent and bore brush cleaning of the guides? running a swab and then lubing the bores..

[pflaming]

I'm just a novice mechanic so I do what seems will work with what I have. Seemed to me the dowel was a pretty good 'swab' and I did lube the bores with it as well.

 

They now spin freely and move up and down without the the assistance of the springs below. Will get them reattached this afternoon.  I put a pretty good gash in my arm pulling a seat guide for my Cirrius, so I am now on my way to get a shot and have it sewed up. 

[Don Coatney]

Don, I used a lapping compound and a hand lapper.

Lots of tedious work. 

That is the answer I was looking for. Thanks.

[pflaming]

Valves are back in, keepers and all and the march up and down nice and quick. I tapped the head treads all went fine but I have one thread hole that is stripped! What to do. There is a product for such but I don't know it's name.

 

Headed for Choir kickoff dinner be back later.

 

Those valve keepers test one's dexterity and patience.