Lakermatt Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hello all. I want to change over to 12 volts on my cranbrook, and need to know what all needs to be changed when doing this. I am buying a wire harness for 195 bucks a alternator, and new custom tailights, buy I need to know what else I will need to for the switch out. My wiring is shot, and though all my gauges work and lights go on, I looked under there and it looks pretty frail. So I need your help!! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53cranny Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 just found this site the other day, it's probably old hats to others but I found it pretty informative! I'm going to be doing the same thing to my cranbrook. the wiring is a total mess so it's coming out soon. http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/6v-to-12v.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Why do you want to change to 12V? I have done so in the past and frankly found it a waste of time and money. Best suggestion is to keep it stock and fix whatever is wrong. If you do want to go 12V the directions you found are about 30 years out of date.There are better ways of doing things which I will not go into here. Please save yourself a lot of work and expense and keep your car 6V. It will work fine for you if everything is up to spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 wiring is shot?..go for the upgrade...not all cars are destined to be restored stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53cranny Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Why do you want to change to 12V? I have done so in the past and frankly found it a waste of time and money.Best suggestion is to keep it stock and fix whatever is wrong. If you do want to go 12V the directions you found are about 30 years out of date.There are better ways of doing things which I will not go into here. Please save yourself a lot of work and expense and keep your car 6V. It will work fine for you if everything is up to spec. I'm with tim! What if his wiring, like mine, is so bad that he needs to replace everything anyways. My car has been a rats nest, literally for the past 15-20 years now and the wires show that. Wouldn't it be just as easy to just replace it with 12v and having an upgrade instead of leaving it 6v and doing pretty much the same process? just my 2cents but I think it would be about as easy to replace it with a 12v kit as it would be to repair what he's got, if it's in any shape like mine. Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopt50wgn Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I also agree with Tim...........when something or everything is on its way out, ..time to upgrade. You say you have the Alt and new custom tail-lights.....thats a start. You will also need all new switches, starter, gauges, and anything else that's electrical plus a 12V battery. Plan to spend some $$$ but the upgrade is well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 My wiring was completely shot and I rewired mine 6v. To me duplicating the original harness was easier than upgrading stuff and adding fuses etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53cranny Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I also agree with Tim...........when something or everything is on its way out, ..time to upgrade. You say you have the Alt and new custom tail-lights.....thats a start. You will also need all new switches, starter, gauges, and anything else that's electrical plus a 12V battery. Plan to spend some $$$ but the upgrade is well worth it. would he (we) really need to buy all new gauges? I've been reading that people are using voltage droppers for their gas gauges, the only gauges on a 53 plymouth that aren't mechanical are the fuel and ammeter. A 6v starter will take power from a 12v but the solenoid won't are you able to change the solenoid without changing the starter? maybe replacing it off a new style starter? there's also no reason the switches shouldn't take the 12v is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 new guages are not necessary...when they went to 12 volt they used the same meter movements as such and only incorporated a CVR into the circuit...buy one and install..using a Runtz (still surges on initial power) or make a solid state with a zeener and couple current dropping resistors..actually some of the older guages have built in regulators..the 12 volts make them switch faster but they still open the circuit at 5 volts and stay open a tad longer for cool down..you may see a slight flicker of the needle...depends on the movement style... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam H P15 D30 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Wow, my harness was perfect (replaced by P.O.) I mainly got tired of the generator. Just having an alternator is the biggest plus. Harnesses designed for 12v are much more plentiful than one designed for the amp load of 6v. It cost less than $200.00 to convert mine. There is a reason vehicle manufactures went to 12v and alternators!! Same reason most people HATE Lucas electronics....... DARKNESS. Alternator (10si) 80.00 horn relay: 5.00 starter relay: I had Coil: 25.00 Headlamps: 50.00 Light bulbs: <25.00 Flasher: 10.00 Alt bracket: made it out of scrap Runtz voltage reducer for fuel guage: 17.00 (speedway motors) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplym Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I rewired my original harness and added a fuse block for all my 12V accessories. Since 6V wires are larger there was not need to rewire the car for me as I had already done so. I am very happy with my 12V upgrade and it was fairly easy. If you have specific questions or don't know where to start try the search function up above as there is a lot of information. Also I would be glad to answer any questions you have. PM me if you would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Yergin Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Just curious. Why is the conversion to 12 volts considered an "up-grade"? Jim Yergin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 because you can usually walk into any corner parts house and get your part and be on your merry way...that is however taken with a grain of salt..we are to assume you will be using currently available modern spares and not upgrading to something like 12 volt Lucas..and remember..the folks doing this drives/intends to drive the car as a daily..not ever to be associated with the trailer queen..some locales do not have a quality auto electric facility nearby and thus makes keeping 6 volt stater and generators a bit of a hassle to get proper parts/repairs. Our local auto electric does not carry anything but #2 prefabbed battery cable..it is the way of business...man laughed when I asked for some 00 battery cable..says he has not carried that junk for years..oh and the other thing.... accessories accessories accessories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 . There is a reason vehicle manufactures went to 12v and alternators!! Please explain. They make 6v alternators and kits to convert 12v alternators to 6v. I've never thought my 6v headlights were dark. Quite the contrary, actually, I have seen a lot more deer in the ditches and further down the road driving my 6v P15 than any of my newer 12v cars. I've never had to make a quick stop with my P15 for deer, but several in my 12v cars. Several nice controlled slow downs while the deer cross the road, but I've never had to make a panicked screeching halt. I honestly do not think automakers changed from 6v to 12v as any sort of upgrade in performance, but actually a cost saving measure. American 12v cars used generators for almost 10 years. VW used 6v for several years after American car makers switched to 12v. Were 12v truly a performance improvement, more automakers would have jumped on board quicker. I rebuilt my generator 20 years ago, and intend to switch to an alternator, but not to 12v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 actually as the car improved, accessories began to add up on stock production cars, AC becoming a standard..the need for greater amperage at lower rpm was a must..12 volts allow the same accessories to operate at half the supplied current...the alternator came to being as it will produce current at idle..Rambler experimented with the Motorola alternator first but Ma Mopar was first to make the change across their model lineup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 the biggest reason was the fact that car maker cout cut the cost of wire in the car by using about half as much to get the job done. Not to mention the weight savings. when wire for headlamso could go from 10 gauge to 16 and be able to do the job, bean counters pushed the change over. Read an article that the industry was thinking of going to 24 volts so they could do it again especiall with all the wiring in cars now, and also there was talk of multiplexing where one wire could run two or three accessories by using different frequency signals on the same wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam H P15 D30 Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Please explain. They make 6v alternators and kits to convert 12v alternators to 6v. I've never thought my 6v headlights were dark. Quite the contrary, actually, I have seen a lot more deer in the ditches and further down the road driving my 6v P15 than any of my newer 12v cars. I've never had to make a quick stop with my P15 for deer, but several in my 12v cars. Several nice controlled slow downs while the deer cross the road, but I've never had to make a panicked screeching halt.I honestly do not think automakers changed from 6v to 12v as any sort of upgrade in performance, but actually a cost saving measure. American 12v cars used generators for almost 10 years. VW used 6v for several years after American car makers switched to 12v. Were 12v truly a performance improvement, more automakers would have jumped on board quicker. I rebuilt my generator 20 years ago, and intend to switch to an alternator, but not to 12v. Are you saying a 6v system has the same performance as a 12v system??? Yes my 6v headlights were just as bright as my 12v ones are. Where the enhancement lies is when you want to add accessories. The 30amp output (on the freeway) of the generator is not capable of handling many accessories. I also saw the 6v alternators but if you're going to modify something by an alternator, just go the extra step and do it all the way. Last week my brake light bulb went out..... Trip to O'rileys and 5 minutes. No special order, no waiting for a 6 volt bulb. I also like being able to idle at a red light with the heater on, lights on, radio on and not seeing a 20 amp discharge. Oh, and that brings up another point, as I like to drive my car, try to find a positive ground modern radio. Even with a 6 volt alternator you are still limited to what you can add to the electrical system, the amp draw adds up twice as fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Are you saying a 6v system has the same performance as a 12v system??? Yes my 6v headlights were just as bright as my 12v ones are. Where the enhancement lies is when you want to add accessories. The 30amp output (on the freeway) of the generator is not capable of handling many accessories. I also saw the 6v alternators but if you're going to modify something by an alternator, just go the extra step and do it all the way. Last week my brake light bulb went out..... Trip to O'rileys and 5 minutes. No special order, no waiting for a 6 volt bulb. I also like being able to idle at a red light with the heater on, lights on, radio on and not seeing a 20 amp discharge. Oh, and that brings up another point, as I like to drive my car, try to find a positive ground modern radio. Even with a 6 volt alternator you are still limited to what you can add to the electrical system, the amp draw adds up twice as fast. Those are all good 2011 reasons to go to 12v. However, I do not think a 6v alternator performs worse than a 12v alternator, nor does a vehicle with a 12v generator perform better than a 6v generator. You stated that car manufacturers went to 12v in 1955 to use alternators and for brighter headlights. That simply ain't so. It was to save money on copper as Greg pointed out. I've driven a '54 Ford with 6v and a similar '55 Ford with 12v. The '55 Ford did not start any faster nor were the headlights or dash lights any brighter. Same discharge issues with both cars' generators. I had the same limitations with my 12v generator-equipped '62 Falcon. American cars used 12v generators for almost a decade. Were 12v not the standard that it is now, there would be modern radios and other accessories made to accomodate 6v alernator equipped vehicles. You asky why not go all the way and switch to 12v? I can switch an alternator in a couple of hours on a Saturday morning and go for a drive that afternoon and on Sunday. Converting the whole car to 12v would take much more time and that is less time spent driving for minimal gain. It is not just an other step. It is many more steps. If our argument is that alternators are an improvement over generators, I do not dispute. I do dispute your claims that the American automakers switched to 12v for brighter headlights and even more preposterous so that they could use alternators in the mid-60s, halogen lights in the '80s (they make 6v halogen lights too), and printed circuit radios in the '90s (which can be manufactured as 6v+ just as easily as 12v-) an inexpensive converter solves this easily any ways as most modern radios only draw a few amps. I get it, you like 12v. It makes sense to you. It's what you learned to work with when you were a teenager. However, do not claim that American automakers switched from 6v to 12v for some sort of performance improvement, esp. when they used 12v generators and not alternators. The decision to switch from 6v to 12v was not an engineering breakthrough, but rather a solution to a goal raised by bean counters. BTW, I have yet to have problems sourcing 6v light bulbs locally, but I do foresee that eventuality. However, I would just have a supply of spares ready. Hardly reason to expend the time, expense, and energy to convert to 12v. I'd rather drive my car than do the conversion. Apples to apples, yes, a 6v system performs just as well as a 12v system. To compare 6v generators to 12v alternators is not a true comparison. You cannot blame the limitations as inherent to 6v, but rather to alternator vs. generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam H P15 D30 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) This is starting to get pointless. No where did I say they changed over for brighter lights. The Lucas example I used is a common "joke" among any British car owner, I assumed you might have known that. I happen to be a hotrodder, this is an arugment I have had for years with all sorts of Purists. Especially when I streetrodded a Packard. It will go nowhere. I will bow out now. Good Luck On Edit: To the origional poster, I hope I helped you a little with your question. I have "converted" many vehicles so if you have a question, just ask..... Edited September 26, 2011 by Adam H P15 D30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 You both make valid points....it just looks like you are both firmly entrenched in your camp's:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 on the 6 volt alternator...should yours fails while out and about..just who will have one in stock for immediate replacement? this is not an arguement..just a valid point when taking all things into consideration...and is that a positive ground alternator..and given the cost is this really practical.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 on the 6 volt alternator...should yours fails while out and about..just who will have one in stock for immediate replacement? this is not an arguement..just a valid point when taking all things into consideration...and is that a positive ground alternator..and given the cost is this really practical.. This is an interesting point, as I have though of buying the GM single wire conversion alt. Can anyone report, on problems or failures related to this item, are they more durable than a 6 volt genny and reg? If you arre going to a 6 volt alt, should it havea higher amp rating, especially if you are running itmes such as voltage to 6 to 12 volt convertors. Does using a 6 volt alt, work better, if you have a 6 volt powered AC system, is there such an animal? Also, many members have reported that with a 12 volt conversion,there engines spin over much faster, and longer, with the 12 volt battery.I have used 12 volts to my 6 volt starter in the past, she spun much faster. Is this a just a case of feeding 12 volts to a 6 volt starter, as I know a few Guys doing this with 0 problems. To convert to 12 volts, in my case, which I have no plan, it would have to benefit me in faster hot starts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 This is an interesting point, as I have though of buying the GM single wire conversion alt.Can anyone report, on problems or failures related to this item, ... I paid around twenty bucks for my rebuilt single wire twelve volt alternator on sale at a bubble pack auto parts store lots of years ago. No problems to date. Should it fail I can buy a replacement at most any auto parts store as most stock this item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 on the 6 volt alternator...should yours fails while out and about..just who will have one in stock for immediate replacement? this is not an arguement..just a valid point when taking all things into consideration...and is that a positive ground alternator..and given the cost is this really practical.. A chance that I will just have to take, but no worse than any of my other great adventures with a stock P15. An alternator is not going in until the generator is no longer working. Were I to completely rewire, since everything would be apart, I may consider 12v, maybe even 24v depending on state of technology when ever that might take place. The point I was making, that Greg picked up on, was that American car makers switched to 12v as a cost-saving measure and not to make use of alternators. Chrysler Corp. used 12v generators for at least 5 years. Ford was still using generators as late as 1962. Comments based on statement that automakers switched to 12v for a reason, and that reason being improved performance. That I take umbrage with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Falcons had generators in 64 and alternators in 65. I suspect the rest of the Ford lineup switched for 65 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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