An Informational Poll

[Young Ed]

Yes I do recall that issue with the slight street rod being given a trophy. If I recall in the end he got it back but it was quite an ordeal. If his car was nice enough and still original enough to earn enough points for a trophy then why shouldn't he have it.

Just thought of something else too. Period accesories are allowed. So if you had actual fenton dual carb intake and headers wouldn't that fit right into that?? Hmmmmm

[greg g]

Funny....A 54 Belvedere hard top won a trophy at the Vermont Show summer before last. If I recall he had (oh my god!!! 2 carburetors on an after market intake manifold) making it a modified car and not elegible for judging, trophy not withstanding. So according to the judging sheets he could recieve no points for engine but still got enough for scoring a trophy. This was a national meet. I do believe there are folks in the membership that are beginning to recognize if not embrace the fact that there are a lot of Plymouths that are modified. Eventually if the POC is to survive, they will need to admit, and even judge cars that are not factory perfect.

The first sentence of the Constitution reads as follows;

"The purpose of the Club is to encourage the use, preservation and restoration of Plymouth and Fargo automobiles and trucks, 25 years of age or older....."

the highlights are mine, some how a highly preserved over restored trailer queen that only sees the light of day when it is removed from its trailer and parked in the judging area misses the mark as much as a car truck with "enhancements". Nuff said, I joined to get the bulletin.

[JIPJOBXX]

I was thinking joining a Mopar club in Seattle but not only does the club want I think around 20 dollars to join but before you can join that you haft to join up with the national club and that's around 50 dollars. I think this price is a little over the top and so I think I will just forget about joining that Mopar Club over in Seattle. Dues are to much should be at the most $25 dollars for both. Jon:mad:

[Normspeed]

No dues, no meetings, no rules...

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[jd52cranbrook]

I belong to it, and spent about 6 months cruising the site for information while getting my car back on the road. I found it very helpful. I am aware of the purist nature of it and believe it to be a good thing. My car was modified before I got it, disc brakes, etc for more safety then looks, so it never would have been a stocker to begin with. So I lowered it, 12 volts, and haven't stopped since.

I think there is room for all types of clubs, and I try to get info where I can. I think it's cool to see a completely restored car of any type cruising right next to me. Without those cars, where would we be?

Just my two cents

[Plymouthy Adams]

In the true back-scratching form...one exists not in spiite of the other but in some extent because of the other. The stock parts removed from these cars in the pursuit of rodding makes engines, trannies, radiators, brake drums etc etc available to the purist. I know the parts I have reomoved have since gone to good use..its a win win situation...I also think feel that the car in its showroom condition is a thing of beauty..I do not have a desire to go that route with my cars and not all cars are good candiates for the restoration approach. As for the club..I believe if I were in the hub of activity where participation would not be a three day round trip..then membership would be in my interest, I also feel that most of the members of any said group are within a short commute. There are some car associations that have local membership but then again remove me from consideration as I would have to first join a national level membership prior to local memebership...

[JerseyHarold]

I have belonged to the POC for way over 20 years, mainly because I like Plymouths in general. I enjoy the Plymouth Bulletin magazine because it has a lot of historical and human interest articles...it's nice to read the story of someone else's car. Technical info is readily available from many sources, especially this forum. There is a LOT of talent here!

To my way of thinking, if Bondo, Maaco, and a different-year engine are keeping a Plymouth alive, that's a good thing. It doesn't have to be perfect or original. What really bothers me is when someone (many times with deeeeep pockets) hacks up a really nice original car to make it a custom or street rod. They could have started with a lesser car and preserved the original.

I'll get off my soap box now.....

[Niel Hoback]

I don't belong to the POC because I don't see any benefits. Everything I need or want to know is available right here. For free, and no one repremands me for what I do or think. I don't think it should be the aim of any organisation to make one of their basic tenets to discourage the efforts of others. What right do they give themselves to decide what I want with my property? Again, I get help here, quick, honest and friendly without judgement. It is, however, good that they are there for each other to encourage trailer queens.

[KINGSWAY52]

I´m an friend of this "nick", taking the chance of this post, even my car interest are of chevybomb, not member, customized all way......... ( http://home.no.net/leaded

........hopefully its okay!

Your forum is also on my linkcollection, and regular checkin´ the posts, even of "wrong" company.......he,he. :D

Whatever forums that is, the forum who give reasonable advice/inputs/interest are always nice to know!

Wanted to give some posting in similar thinking about this post.

Your situation seems like the national board says something, and locals sets the rules strictly/nonstrictly after their own grade.

It seems like a comunication problem between nationals/locals without they setting the rules straight.

as in our own national American Car Club in Norway.( ACCN )

Back then, purist thinkin was the way. and because of that lot of custom/rod peoples didnt go in, and maked their own clubs, local/ seminational.

The clubs of manufactures did go their own purist way, also a lot yet.

( ACCN ) did changed , but also got more profitstyled, and loose lot of contact to local chapters, who again did getting more small clubs/ togethers and clubs of brands.

Small clubs / friend togethers are known styles of hot rodders, and seems now to spread more and more, also worldwide.

The national clubs has perhaps got to big, and communication between member of the board, and their members, got away. Also a lot of the top people seems to be "sitting on their horse", and keeping other regular members on a "distance". Power makes space between them.

Later time the new style with the Fast & Furious jap cars are takin over the youths, here in norway , letting US. cars in the mud. And discussions about Us car clubs to do or not, are a big thing on forums, but not by the National clubs.One of the reason is the distance (not milage) by board and regulars.

Discussed with the editors of the biggest Fast & Furious streetcar clubs/ togethers, regular car members of other car clubs, all agree that :

cars in the garage( used only on the right weather),

high cost trailer queens who most people dont have the money for,

puritisme of orginal cars, and forgetting their own youth style, ( as smoke a wheel then and then )

disable you as a member,

Concluded that : NOT USING THE CAR, SO PEOPLE COULD SEE WHAT OUR INTREST ARE, are main reason for that the envirement of car clubs are loosing members, and that clubs members getting older and older.

The nationals should get down to the ground and ask what their members want, and change their rules after that.

As written here,perhaps let the meeted members decide, re: let som power of the boards.

Jonny S #11 wrote: "Had breakfast this morning with a fellow who owns a 1949 Woodie right here in town and he didn't have a clue that P15-D24 or POC or most any of the on-line groups existed."

Don Coatney #14"I do not know of any "local" chapters."

Understand it, then cars are only used in perfect conditional weather, seldom seen and seldom know, who should know about the clubs?

A lot likes the forums because of their community use, and help all over , without spending time on regular basis. On forums, could you meet similar people of same interest, in between all others to do on a day. - freedom speaks.

Purism or not, peoples should decide what they want. And membership in special clubs are not law incremented, if not any suit you/ yours, make your own! - that has the rod peoples done in years.

The purism among some club, is their problem, its they who loses members when all are gone by age!

Its your car, do what you want to do, after which capabilitys you have, be proud of it, and dont care of what other says. Original or not, both are nice to see on the road in use. Its better to see the cars on the roads, than standing stored because of not possibility of the cost,or problem to get the right original numbered "waterpump"!

Tim Adams #31 has a good point about puritism style or not ,"The stock parts removed from these cars in the pursuit of rodding makes engines, trannies, radiators, brake drums etc etc available to the purist. I know the parts I have reomoved have since gone to good use..its a win win situation..."

Keep up using the resources you find suitable for your interest, as this forum, KEEP POSTING! that will keep it alive, and a big THANKS to the maker of this.

Own country are of approx. 4,2 mill. peoples ( small town of US.) and the problem of yours are even more distinct here. Also coldeness and snow of the winter make troubles of meeting all over. But some got the thoughts of using the cars whatever, as earlyer post of this nick show, with snowytime, spikes tyres, and further. Yet 31*F, 70cm snow ( who come this day)

AND YOUR COMPLAIN ABOUT USE?

Have a nice week, with lot of moparthought of the summercruisin´

Leaded

[bob_amos]

Dennis, Yes, you are correct in thinking that you MUST join the national to join the regional and we have discussed that in length at Golden State Region meetings. So... what we have done is open it to guys not in the national by classifying them as associate members. This gives them full access to the region without the benefits offered by the national. The show we will be doing in May will have national members in the national car show and the Golden State Region car show will run concurrent with the national. This opens the club to non national members and also, and this is the real reason for this, allows us to recruit potential new members to the club, both regional and national. Had you had the oportunity to read the last National magazine you would see that a new contributor to the magazine has a car like Tony C.'s that is modified with chrome wheels and who knows what else he has modified. Seems that he is accepted by the national. Go figure.. But please don't rule us out because of National rules, which state that you do not have to own a car to join. Kind of contradicts their stance on non stock cars only. If you have NO car then you are defenately not stock... LOL..

[Chester Brzostowski]

Dear all,

As an experiment I posted this Thread on the National POC Forum:

“Do you feel the POC represents the thinking of the Majority of Vintage Plymouth Owners.?? Y / N “

The POC Board has 524 Members:

The P15D24 Board has 813 Members. I would suspect that at minimum half are Plymouth owners:

I plan to post the anonymous results of both these polls on both boards once these Polls conclude in 58 more days. The reason I have chosen to run this poll that long is to ensure the largest number of participants.

Thanks much for all your input. The end result may be very interesting to all.

It is not necessary to post a comment but please vote. The comments posted will be grouped into short summary bullets depicting the general feeling of the comment.

Tks, Chet...

[Don Coatney]

Chet;

Interesting that you posted the poll on this forum 4/6/2007 at 8:27 PM. During that time 47 folks have voted, 35 have replied, and 397 have viewed this thread.

You posted the poll on the POC forum 4/8/2007 at 9:30 AM. During that time 17 folks have voted, 4 have replied, and 56 have viewed the thread. Not sure what these numbers mean except there is a lot more traffic on this forum than there is on the POC forum. And as expected the vote results to date on the POC forum is the opposite of the results on this forum. Hope you did not stir up too big of a hornets nest.

[greg g]

Carefull Chet, stuff like that will get you kicked out. The moderators will likely pull it when they wake up, or if it starts going opposite of the board's myopic view.

Alot of discussion overheard at the Vermont show was that the group is having trouble attacting new members, and the old members are consistantly checking out celestially (passing away) just seems a matter of time before the light might be on but nobody will be home. I joined two years ago in order to participate in the event in Vermont. I found the folks helpful and friendly, even though I have a Modified car, however, the closest local chapters are Colonial 3+ hours to Mass, Long Island, 5+hours through NYC, Delaware Valley 4+ hours to Northern NJ/Del and the Mid altlantic 5+hours to

MD. So there is no local activity of the POC here abouts, so the only benefit I get is the Bulletin and a 5 dollar discount on my insurance. I find the POC forum helpfull occasionally but the traffic there is light.

It is also strange that you can get to the POC forum from the POC home page, but you can't get to the POC home page from the forum (I might be missing something but I looked and didn't find a link)

[Norm's Coupe]

Don and Greg are right. Doesn't take much to ruffle a few feathers over on the POC forum. You may end up getting the arm and hammer come down on your head. I know it didn't take much a few years ago when Dennis and I were read the riot act. I think we were only discussing the merits of things like radial tires and possibly disc brakes. Funny that someone mentioned they now accept the radial tires.

[bob_amos]

I have to agree with you guys on the POC. Example: They sold us some CDs of past Bulletins and I purchased them. They had troubles with one of the disks which was suppose to turn into 2 more disks and they would be sending them as soon as they were done. Now I realize that this is all a volunteer thing and wouldn't mind it if they just could not follow up with the last two disks. So I posted the question on the status of the last 2 disks a couple times. They promptly deleted the request but not before a number of others also asked about them. Some of the guys also rewrote the question and again, they deleted the quarry. Now, if the club is suppose to be for all then why are they censoring or deleting a valid question? I also have heard that when a car is judged it is judged on what the founders idea of correct is and not what is the real thing. Even if the owner has solid proof of the vehicle item. So... no, they really are self serving in many ways. But there are a number of great guys there and ya just have to look beyond all of the politics and such.

[Chester Brzostowski]

Don, Greg, Norm, & Bob,

If in Fact the Plymouth Owners Club or the POC Forum doesn’t care about what Plymouth Owners think then for sure it doesn’t represent Plymouth Owners. If this turns out to be the case …, then they can pull my Poll and Kick me out.., not a problem.

I sincerely hope that this is not the case. Hay Don I used you as a reference when I joined. Sorry guy….

Chet…

[Chester Brzostowski]

Gentlemen,

With 520 views to date.., only 44 members have entered a vote. Puzzling I must say. I encourage you to please respond to the posed question if you are a Vintage Plymouth Owner. You do not have to post but if you feel the need to post an opinion. Please.., by all means do so.

After all the Post “Winter Is Here In Manitoba” has received 335 responses to date.

Manny Thanks, Chet… POC member and also a member of the AACA.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I thought about becoming a procrastinator..but I put that decision off till later....

I feel your pain..we have so many that read and so few wish to express a view ... is it they don't care or do we get that much foot trafffic from passer-bys? We have had poll in the past and they usaully get a little responses.

[james curl]

I do not have an opinion on the POC as I have never had any dealings with them. I only know of them through the fourm. The only national club that I belong to is Inliners International.

[John Mulders]

I thought about becoming a procrastinator..but I put that decision off till later....

I feel your pain..we have so many that read and so few wish to express a view ... is it they don't care or do we get that much foot trafffic from passer-bys? We have had poll in the past and they usaully get a little responses.

Tim,

I don't have the silver bullet answer for that, but do you respond to each and every questionaires and polls you encounter.

I know I don't always responde just because some do not interest me or I don't see the value of it (I get a lot of questionaires in my line of work regarding (non existing) service by some companies, even if I answer the service won't improve).

But I think it is good to have people talk about these things (the POC or Andy B (lol)) so others know about these opinions and can form their own (and hopefully not only based on what others say) and sometimes it helps people to see things different (as appears to be the case with the POC that now allows radials). Some things just don't change overnight !

Just my two cents !

John

PS. Think I have properly fixed the vent window rubber tears I had. Used a piece of inner tube and used black silicone to fill gaps.

Needs to dry and then some detailing...

[Norm's Coupe]

Chet,

You really can't count all the views on this thread. I know many people probably do the same thing as I do. Each time I see this thread has a new post I view it again. So, as many post that are in this thread is roughly the number of times I've looked at it. Add all those up and not near the "New" people have looked at as the view count.

[Plymouthy Adams]

No I don't respond to every poll I see..I do however try to support this forum and this question was important to one of our readers and thus the reason for my answer and my support..

The only clubs I have ever been a member of was the Porshce Club and Tigers East/Alpines East....and even now I am no longer in the club..Porsches have long since been gone..the Tiger...well rarely get out of the garage with it..the other Tiger..bone stock untouched 25 years it has been off the road...it is an investment really. Got all new parts in original Rootes wrappers to rebuild that car...

I am glad you got your vent rubber fixed..post a pic when the silicone sets..may be a fix a few more of us will need in the long run.

I still wonder just how many of the logged reads were just passer-bys/lurkers...

[Allan Faust]

Don' date=' I brought this up several years ago and it didn't seem to go very far. I even went so far as having license plate toppers made up special. The design of the plate topper was voted on at the time. It's not a cheap topper, they were made out of cast aluminum and came already painted. If you go down the thread and look at the picture Dennis Hemingway put up, he has the topper on the car. I think about 20 or 30 people have those. One of those people was Nelson. At the time, I also wrote to Street Rodder magazine about us forming a club, and gave this site for them to look at. The letter was published and it did draw a lot of new people to the forum. I also got some calls (including long distant calls) from people without internet wanting to join, even though in the letter I said it was internet based. So, there is interest out there for formalizing a club.[/quote']

I'm in.... so donations to the forum are dues???? Where can I get my license topper???? This is the best dang club I've been in... bar none....

Allan

[David Maxwell]

...understand that your P15 would be totally welcome at our event. What's more, we've set it up so that your entry fee gives you a one month's membership to the Golden State Region without having to join the National Club. Your car would compete in our "non-national" modified class. Whether you're into the trophies or not, we will have the same nice trophies that I've designed and built for participants in all classes/events. So, please, take this opportunity to take part in a GREAT PLYMOUTH EVENT right here in California. We would love to see you and your car!

David

[Norm's Coupe]

I'm in.... so donations to the forum are dues???? Where can I get my license topper???? This is the best dang club I've been in... bar none....

Allan

Allan,

Those toppers were special order only. Back then I had to order 10 of them at a time to get the price (around $30 each I think back then). Then they would all have to be shipped at once, to one address to get the price. I then had to put them in individual boxes and send them to the people who had ordered them from here. You could probably order one direct from the place but the price would probably be about $10 or so more, that is if he'll make just one. I don't have any more of them (except my own) because I only ordered them when I got orders from 10 or more people.