2 or 3 point safety belts?

[White Spyder]

As you may recall from another post, "for safety sake" seat belts is on the list. What is your thoughts on 2 or 3 point restraints in a Windsor? I know that 3 point are safer and I think it could be mounted on the "b" pillar but would it take too much away from the car and become a judging problem? Two point system could be tucked away at shows but in an accident the thought of my face in the wheel is not appealing.

If you have any photos of installed belts I would like to see them.

[greg g]

with the non collapsable steering colume and steel dashboard, 3 points would be the safest, as lap belts don't prevent impact with sharp things and hard things. Some would say for the way we drive our cars that laps belts may be sufficient.

Used to be a saying about helmets for MC riders. If you got a 39 buck head buy a 39 buck helmet.....

This said, I have neither in my car, and a 80 buck helmet hangs off my MC.

Edited June 2, 2011 by greg g

[Merle Coggins]

Used to be a saying about helmets for MC riders. If you got a 39 buck head buy a 39 buck helmet.....

This said, I have neither in my car and a 80 buck helmat hags of my MC.

That sounds familiar. I often have students ask how much they should pay for a helmet. Are the cheap ones as good as the expensive ones? I usually reply by asking, "How much is your head worth?"

By the way... I have 3 point belts in my truck. I'm not interested in kissing the steering wheel if something happens.

Merle

[greg g]

Merle you still thinking on your summer trek.

[Merle Coggins]

Merle you still thinking on your summer trek.

I'd like to, but it looks like it's not going to happen this year.

[mrwrstory]

I put 3 point belts in a friends 56 Buick and in my 56 Ford. They'll go in the P-15 when it gets closer to drivable. The extra effort is minimal compared to the feeling of and actual safety. I'll post some pics in a day or so.

[Captain Neon]

I only put seatbelts in my P15 for two reasons. 1) My sisters-in-law refused to allow their children to ride in it unless it had seat belts, 2) with the way things are going, it is only a matter of time before all cars will be required to have seatbelts to get registered.

Protect us from our selves. We are from the government, and we're here to help!

[mrwrstory]

I have heard that points are not deducted for seat belts when judging restored vehicles. If that was not true and you installed only a lap belt, you would still loose points for modifying the car.

With all that said, here's what I did. If you have a two door or coupe, you could reverse the mounting of the reel and hide it behind the trim panel. That trick also eliminates the obstruction that the reel poses when trying to enter the rear of the passenger compartment. Kinda like a production car.

Coupla more pics on http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v92/wstory/for%20posting/

Be safe and Good Luck!

[Captain Neon]

I don't show my car. The car is the trophy, and so are the enjoyable conversations that I have had with complete strangers and the friends that I have made because of my car. I could care less about point deductions. I simply do not like seat belts.

The only reason that I have ever put on a seat belt is not for my personal safety, but because I don't like the inconvenience of talking to a motorised taxation officer (aka. traffic cop) or paying even more taxes than I already do. If a stewardess doesn't specifically tell me to buckle up on flights, I don't then either. My motivation? A potential stay in Leavenworth if I disobey a direct order from a member of the flight crew.

I haven't drunk the seat belt Kool-Aid. I remember being told at 12 that seatbelts save lives, and that police officers have never unbuckled a dead person. The truth is that police officers never unbuckle any one. I was an EMT for 8 years. They use a knife to cut seatbelts to remove accident victims. If they are already dead, they throw a blanket over them and wait for the coroner. Lots of people die buckled in, and the propaganda that they fed us in the '80s was a lie.

In fact, according to my favourite chiropractor, seat belts do more harm than good in a collision less than 45 mph. However, I am required by Kansas law to risk greater injury by their primary enforcement of seat belts. If seat belt laws were any thing more than a source of revenue, they would be written that any one traveling in a speed zone > 45 mph would require a seat belt. They don't. Every seat belt law states that seat belts must be worn while operating a motor vehicle equipped with them.

[White Spyder]

I agree with the fact that I get more joy out of driving and talking with people about the car than judging in a show. I have only entered a point judging show once and found it to be abysmal due to lack of knowledge of the judging staff. Just wanted to know.

As a fireman I too have seen many that have died with their seat belts on but there are far more that lived or had only minor injuries. Even in low speed collisions. With an older car that lacks crumple zones and soo many texting drivers, I will put in belts. I just want it to look nice.

One final thought. I think seatbelt laws are a joke. All states require them because of Federal funding rules but several states do not require helmets for motorcycle riders. What the hell? I think it should be a choice but we the taxpayer should not be liable for your healthcare when you choose not to use belts or helmets.

[Don Coatney]

Not to start a political debate but the wearing of seatbelts and helmets should not be mandated in my opinion but should be the choice of the individual.

As has been mentioned the state laws have been passed based on federal funding so it is all about the money in my opinion.

[TodFitch]

... I think it should be a choice but we the taxpayer should not be liable for your healthcare when you choose not to use belts or helmets.

And that is the crux of the matter. It is very hard morally and from a humanitarian point of view to stop from having the taxpayer pick up the tab for the medical bills. You just going to let someone die in the ER because they weren't wearing a seatbelt? I don't think so. And if the taxpayers/government is going to pay for the damages it makes some sense that they make rules that should decrease the total costs.

[Frank Elder]

This thread is getting political. Let me say this about that....People are not allowed to live life as they see fit anymore, most of the time it is under the guise of " This what is best for you even if you don't agree with us."

These are the times we live in and we have to live in these times, or live outside of them and be considered a radical or even worse, a free thinker.

I don't want to be impaled on a steering column or spread my gray matter along the highway anymore than the next person......but it should still be my choice.

[thrashingcows]

Mrwrstory...that is a very clean seat belt install!! What/where did you get the belts, and could you give us a little more detail on how it was all accomplished.

[mrwrstory]

This is where I got mine. http://www.buckle-up.net/ ... Juliano's, a Hot Rod supplier in New England also sells them. Surely there are others.

One thing I do not like about mine is the buckle/latch. I opted for the more expensive model which had an "early style" latch. It had a vintage look I liked but it seems difficult for me to use. If I had to do it over I would probably buy the contempory style which is essentially the same as on your everyday car.

I received a PM also asking about the install. The basis for getting a look that is more like a late model car is to rotate the retractor reel 180 degrees from what is shown in the installation directions, so that it faces the outside of the car. You must make a new anchor that locates retractor in the space between the trim panel and the outside skin. I'll do a sketch later this evening

[mrwrstory]

Here you go boys and girls. This is kind of a generic section. Note the "link". I made it from .190 stock and that allows the mounting of the retractor rotated into the interior cavity. I have not shown it but be assurred I used "backers" wherever I bolted through sheet metal.

[White Spyder]

Went to a bone yard and pulled a 3 point from an 80's Dodge. Got it home only to find out that there is not enough clearance between the front seat and the B pillar for the retractor. Found this as a possible option.

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/1126s.html

[kbuhagiar]

Here you go boys and girls. This is kind of a generic section. Note the "link". I made it from .190 stock and that allows the mounting of the retractor rotated into the interior cavity. I have not shown it but be assurred I used "backers" wherever I bolted through sheet metal.

Thanks Mr Bill - we appreciate you taking the time and trouble to show us the nuts and bolts of your seat belt installation.

[Captain Neon]

And that is the crux of the matter. It is very hard morally and from a humanitarian point of view to stop from having the taxpayer pick up the tab for the medical bills. You just going to let someone die in the ER because they weren't wearing a seatbelt? I don't think so. And if the taxpayers/government is going to pay for the damages it makes some sense that they make rules that should decrease the total costs.

From a morally and humanitarian point of view, it is immoral to expect some one else to pick up the bill. Mooching off looters makes no difference. Responsible people that either work for their healthcare benefits or provide for their own are looted by government to pay for those that refuse to be responsible.

When cost is $0, demand is infinite. In any sort of socialised medical system, it either ultimately collapses or services are rationed. Example: there are more people wanting organs than there are organs available. Right now, medical boards choose who lives and dies. If the recipient bore all costs in a transplant (including a market value on the organ to the heirs of the organs), I suspect that demand for organs would go down as some people make the grim choice to live their life as best they can until the inevitable. The other choices are that all of the good organs that are currently scrapped are used, ex. decedent obese but organs otherwise, or mandatory organ donation.

I can shop around for all sorts of goods and services, but due to government meddling in collusion with medical schools. In regards to medical care, I am forced into buying a Mercedes, when I would much rather have a Plymouth. At this point in my life, I choose to go without as the market does not meet my needs.

We are bordering on politics, but I could not let that just lie out there with out a counter-point.

[hillbilly4008]

I do not have belts in my car yet, but I AM going to install them soon. My wife and I had this discussion earlier today actually. I also have a 2 year old son who has to ride in a child safety seat. I allready fabricated mounting points that will mount in the rear for the seat to clip into.

From my own experience I can vouch that seat belts do work. A few years back I was in a head on collision with a drunk driving a small dump truck. He turned into my lane while trying to enter his driveway. It was a 55mph zone on a back country road, and I am sure I was driving about 65-70. I was going 50 when the two trucks collided, the airbag went off and as my truck spun 90degrees, went into and out of a ditch, over top of a guide wire for a telephone pole, then side swiped the pole. Then the anchor for the wire flailed around my truck and jabbed the passenger door.

I walked away from that accident with out a scratch. The 3point harness caught and I never even touched the airbag when it deployed. The truck was totalled to the point where i had to crawl out the driver window to get out. The impact ripped the front driver wheel and hub assembly off of the dump truck I hit.

A 2 point belt probably would have left me with severe airbag rash as the very least. Imagine what could happen in our cars?

Edited June 4, 2011 by hillbilly4008