Bumper Bolt Positioning

[RobertKB]

Need some advice please. I am getting ready to install the rechromed back bumper on my '48 Dodge D25 club coupe and am not sure which position the oval bumper bolts go on the bumperettes. As seen in the two pictures, I previously had all the bolts running horizontally including on the bumperettes. I am pretty sure this is correct for bumper but am wondering if the oval bolt heads should be vertical on the bumperettes. Any factory literature or ads showing how this should be done would be great. Not looking for personal preference but how it came from the factory. I am sure Plymouths would have been done the same as the Plymouth based Canadian Dodge. Any help appreciated to get my new bumper bolts "factory correct".

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have always seen them pointy end vertical...appears that way in the identification chart of the 41 Plymouth service manual..but the bumper is not covered in the body section..

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tim Adams

[TodFitch]

I have always seen them pointy end vertical...appears that way in the identification chart of the 41 Plymouth service manual..but the bumper is not covered in the body section..

At least in the early 1930s, the bumpers were covered in the accessory section of the parts book (there was no factory service manual before 1934). I think that was a hold over from the 1920s when bumpers were an accessory.

[bamfordsgarage]

Hello Robert

On my D25, the bumper bolt heads are horizontal... not proof they came that way from factory, but I imagine this bumper was never off the car until it was pulled to straighten and repair after a hit & run several years ago.

I also found a relevant photo of the D25 parts car we bought last spring. The bolt heads were horizontal on this car too. Once again, not proof they were like this from new, but pointing in that direction.

[Roadkingcoupe]

vertical on the bumperette

horizontal on the bumper

looks good too

[Young Ed]

My 48 back bumper which I doubt has ever been off is the same as roadkingcoupe said.

[48P15Annie]

Both of my original '48 ads show horizontal on the bumper, and vertical on the guards.

[mackster]

you guys know too much! its scary!!!

[RobertKB]

Hmmmmm. Still no definitive response. Arguments for both ways. Anyone else?

[BobT-47P15]

In my P15 Parts Manual.....it looks from the drawing that the bumper

bolts are horizontal, but the bolts in the guards are vertical.

[Robin (UK)]

Here's the definitive answer - from factory pictures...

Original press picture and Ross Roy Data Book pictures below.

So it's horizontal on the bumpers, vertical on the bumperettes.

That would seem to make sense, following the midlines of each part.

[Roadkingcoupe]

vertical on the bumperette

horizontal on the bumper

looks good too

definitive answer

[RobertKB]

definitive answer

Guess I missed that. Thanks

In my P15 Parts Manual.....it looks from the drawing that the bumper

bolts are horizontal, but the bolts in the guards are vertical.

Looks to be definitive also. Thanks.

Here's the definitive answer - from factory pictures...

Original press picture and Ross Roy Data Book pictures below.

So it's horizontal on the bumpers, vertical on the bumperettes.

That would seem to make sense, following the midlines of each part.

Definitive also. Thanks.

However, bamfordsgarage indicates maybe the D25 is different from the P15 but I don't know why that would be. Plymouth definitely is horizontal on the bumper and vertical on the bumperette. Dodge D25 may or may not have been different. I am going to try to find some advertising pictures of a new D25. Will post what I find.

Thanks for all the help.

[BobT-47P15]

Found this Canada production info on the allpar site, if anyone is

interested. Link to the site......http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/1945-1948.html

Kind of runs some numbers together, but readable with some patience.

Chrysler Canada production, 1946 - 1948

Plymouth 1 9 4 6 1 9 4 7 1 9 4 8 t o t a l

Plymouth P15 6,522 18,915 18,363 44,982

Dodge

Dodge 25 Deluxe, Special Deluxe 5,976 15,861 16,316 38,153

Dodge 24 Custom 711 4,357 2,855 7,923

Dodge D24 Custom 7 passenger 37 24 61

Dodge total 6,688 20,262 19,199 46,149

Read more at http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/1945-1948.html?ktrack=kcplink[img

[bamfordsgarage]

Good morning Robert, this is an interesting exercise...

Did a Google and Bing image search for Dodge D25 and found several images in which one can reasonably make out the orientation of the bumper guard bold head. Several are of apparently original cars which should carry more authority. Just to mix it up a bit, the last picture is an original-looking car with the bumper bolt vertical and the guard bolt ambiguous but maybe horizontal. Unfortunate that the photos were not more clear. There are also a couple D25s besides yours in the P15 D24 photo gallery that show a horizontal orientation.

It is possible that the Canadian D25s were assembled slightly different than the American P15s — stranger things have happened. I suspect original cars are your best bet to establish the bolt head orientation. Even factory literature, which was often prepared in advance of production and/or in the US, may not be reliable.

[RobertKB]

Good morning Robert, this is an interesting exercise...

Did a Google and Bing image search for Dodge D25 and found several images in which one can reasonably make out the orientation of the bumper guard bold head. Several are of apparently original cars which should carry more authority. Just to mix it up a bit, the last picture is an original-looking car with the bumper bolt vertical and the guard bolt ambiguous but maybe horizontal. Unfortunate that the photos were not more clear. There are also a couple D25s besides yours in the P15 D24 photo gallery that show a horizontal orientation.

It is possible that the Canadian D25s were assembled slightly different than the American P15s — stranger things have happened. I suspect original cars are your best bet to establish the bolt head orientation. Even factory literature, which was often prepared in advance of production and/or in the US, may not be reliable.

Thanks for the information and pictures. I am leaning toward putting them on horizontally on the bumperettes as most D25's seem to have it that way. I wonder what the Canadian Plymouths show just to add another angle??LOL

[T120]

..may not be definitive,but it looks okay

[T120]

Hi Robert,The bolts on my bumperettes are horizontal and match the bumper bolts.But looking closely ,they may well have been vertical on the bumperettes originally as there are marks on the bumperettes indicating such.-The change is probably a subtle approach to having something a bit different, maybe a Canadian thing -Eh?

I'll bet that Watson fellow in Vancouver has the definitive answer

Edited October 27, 2010 by Ralph D25cpe

[RobertKB]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I looked at my parts car Dodge D25 which has original paint, what is left, and I do not believe the bumpers have ever been off and the bolts on it are horizontal on the bumperettes. I believe that is the way I will now go, all bolts on bumpers and bumperettes will be horizontal as indications are that was likely for the D25's. I went to look at my parts car today to check and then realized I had pictures of it from about a year ago. Not too bright lately.

[BobT-47P15]

It's rather interesting/amazing if you think about it -- someone had to

design and specify everything about these cars. Even down to which

way the bumper bolts were going to run. What size and style of

screws and bolts to fasten things with, etc, etc.

I wonder if the Canadian designers conferred with the U.S. designers.

[Young Ed]

Bob even if this was specified to the builders it could be whatever the guy felt like that day. Also some of these bumper guards were probably installed as accessories by dealers who did it how they felt.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Historically the bumperettes were vertically mounted bolt heads. If you look at a 1939 1940 or 1941 Plymouth the center bumperette is narrow and the bumper bolt head can only be mounted vertically (doesn't look right horizontal).

After 1941 the bumperettes became wider and at that point the "decision" could be made to position the bumper bolts horizontal on the bumperette.