OT another house question-furnaces

[Young Ed]

Looking into getting a new one. Got a quote last night that seems quite good. They would be installing Lennox equipment. Made in Iowa supposed to be great stuff. Little internet searching seems to find as many people complaining as those praising. Now is this just a case of people are more likely to complain then to praise? Some of the complaints did seem to be related or the fault of the installation rather than the equipment too. So anyone using lennox equipment? Thoughts on it please.

[greg g]

Frunaces made in USA, control boards made in Mexico or China, More complicated they get, the less reliable they are. I got 4 estimates for replacing my two furnaces. Went on the interweb to look at reliability information, noise ratings, actual savings. Decided to stay with my 1960 vitage models. Not as efficient as the new ones but reliable as a rock.

If I was going to switch I had decided on Carrier single stage with electronic ignition. Second choice was the brand that succeded the Janitrol line.

Another deal is the induced draft fan, for the exhaust, and the fact that if you have a gas water heater, you need to adress the chimney issue as it may not produce enough heat to vent in a cold chimney.

Is there something wrong with the furnace you have???

[Young Ed]

No actually its been working just fine. Its a 1954 and I think its a janitrol. That sounds familiar. Mainly wanting to add AC to the house.

[greg g]

Most of the new furnaces have heat exchangers that look like exhaust pipe, instead of the cast iron of th old ones. I have frieds with newer houses and furnaces that are always complaining about control boards, ignitors, draft induction fans. Might have it gone through and check the exchanger for cracks, get it tuned up and leave it alone.

Plus the new ones are smaller which usually means some duct chages are also necessary.

As far as AC is concerned ou might want to take a look at The Through the wall units by Mitsubishi and others. Withthe business end on the outside and the distribution end through the wall.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Ed..the majority of the complaints I am sure are probably installer related moreso than the actual equipment...

if you are looking to an upgrade I would seriously think of a gas pack where all sits out of door along with the noise and such that goes with the unit...these are my preference and I have installed a few in my lifetime...even retrofitting a split system to hese is usally painless as you but build a transition to your plenum

[Young Ed]

Outdoors? I've never heard of such a thing. Might not be appropriate for our winters. Everyone around here has them in the basement.

[Plymouthy Adams]

where I live you can't get a basement.....if you dug one you eventually call them swimming pools..

[TodFitch]

Echoing Greg G's "Is there something wrong with the furnace you have???" comment.

I did go ahead and replace the 1958 boiler in our house a couple of years ago with a modern 98% efficient one but I have to admit that the new unit will probably not last long enough to pay for itself in gas savings. If you are looking to replace a working heater/boiler for energy savings you would probably be better off looking at improving your insulation, windows, door seals, etc. Usually a lot more "bang for the buck" to do that.

On the other hand, if your furnace actually failed and needs to be replaced, then I'd suggest looking at the most efficient unit you can find. It seems that the difference in installed cost between an average efficiency unit and a high efficiency unit is not all that big. The real cost is in the base equipment and installation.

[JIPJOBXX]

If your going to get a new furnace than you might as well get a 95 percent efficient. But that if you can get some kind of tax incentive. Last year my 12 year old 80 percent efficient heater decided to just up and quit and so I replaced it with an 95 percent one. I think I got back about 1500 dollars from uncle same and the whole thing came out to 4500 dollars. But it really only cost me 3,000 and it did cut back on my gas usage. My neighbor elected to go with an 80 percent efficient stove and that cost all most as much as my 95 percent one. Well if you can fix your old one I would but also if there are any tax incentives today I would get a new one and not haft to worry for another 10 or so years.

[Young Ed]

Yup I'd be getting 1500 rebate from uncle sam and 300 from the gas co. The quote for the 95% one is 3395 after rebates.

[P-12 Tommy]

where I live you can't get a basement.....if you dug one you eventually call them swimming pools..

Same here:D

Tom

[Don Coatney]

Two years ago my 10 year old gas furnace heat exchanger developed a crack. One of my neighbors is the instructor for a local HVAC trade school. He made my heat exchanger replacement a class project AND he found that my original heat exchanger was still under warranty. Total cost to me for the repair was zip. This spring the cendensor fan on my central air unit that shares the furnace duct work failed. OEM replacement fan was about three hundred bucks. I elected to go that route as opposed to making new brackets for an aftermarket fan.

[claybill]

95% furnace...yes it saves gas...but the continual fan blowing increased my electric bill $25. per. also it takes much longer to heat up the house, as it

blows only warm air. the 80% job blows hot air for awhile then stops, then starts again.....

got the 90% 2 years ago.....efficient but....

bill

[Plymouthy Adams]

most gas furnaces should be thermostatically controlled..if the call to heat signal is applied at the thermostat..the gas fires on, if modern style so will the forced air fan for the turbo effect ot the heat exhanger..then after the temp rises to a preset temp only then does the blower motor come on..as the inside temp rises, the call to heat has been satisfied so the gas valve is shut off and the blower continues to run till the exchanger is cooled to a lower temp but still at enough rise not to blow cold air into the house..todays modern forced air burners are efficient..and with the gas-pac all outside..its whisper quiet...my mom was so surprised when I put their new gas pac in and fired off the AC...she did not know the unit was runnning as she was so used to the split unit with the blower in the house...

Edited August 25, 2010 by Tim Adams

[JIPJOBXX]

Tim your right about how quit they are! But I did learn one thing about these newer heaters is that ignitor tend to go out after so many years. Its an easy job to replace and only cost around 50 dollars or so.

[greg g]

About the only thing I liked about the newer furnaces, was the fact that they used outside air for combustion rather than already conditioned air resident in the basement (you folks with outside works already have this), but with a blower to suck in combustion air, a blower to push exhaust out, and the blower to circulate the heated air some of them variable speed units, there is just to much stuff to fail.

So I'll keep my pilot light, warmed flue, natural chimney draft, and a bimetalic thermocouple. But I have switched to solid state programmable thermostats.

My fathers house is still working on a early 60's conversion in an old cast iron coal octopus, with no blower and the heat outlets on the inside walls and the cold air return on the outside walls. Its cheaper, quieter, and feels warmer than my forced air unit.

[Harvey Tank]

a lot of pros and cones here! I made my lively hood in the HVAC industry, and I have seen a lot of changes from when I started a long time ago. I have been retired for sometime now but still help my son out now and then. a lot of things mentioned is true. I remember the old castiron heat exchangers. and match lite pilots. way back before solidstate eloctronics, when things were simple, like our old flatties. the were frendly and easy to work on.

like someones signiture here on the forum! if it ant broke don't fix it.

but my sugustion would be if you won't to do a up grade there are some other

things to consider that wern't mentioned. make sure if you are considering A/C go with the highest SEER rating 1600 or even 1800 with a matcking furnace AFU of 95% or higher to qulify for tax credt. that way the AC will have the new R410 Refrigerant. Lennox, Carrier,Trane, Goodman. these are all good units in my openion. and as mentioned the system is only as good as the instullation. and last but not least. have you contractor do a heating and cooling load on your house, its a must. hope this helps.

[Dennis_MN]

I installed a Byrant 96% Plus an AC unit in July. Love how quiet it is, never hear it running. Got a rebate from Gas company, electric company, the furnace company and we will from the IRS.

They were expensive but the people that installed were the same guys that kept my old stuff running for the last 15 years.

Dennis

[Young Ed]

The installer we talked to actually recommended for our size house a 13seer ac unit. He did some math and said it would take 15 years to save back the price difference between the 13seer and the 16seer AC unit. He also gave us quotes on both the 80% and 95% efficient furnaces. Looks like 95 is the way to go since after the rebates its only 300 bucks more.

[JerseyHarold]

The installer we talked to actually recommended for our size house a 13seer ac unit. He did some math and said it would take 15 years to save back the price difference between the 13seer and the 16seer AC unit. He also gave us quotes on both the 80% and 95% efficient furnaces. Looks like 95 is the way to go since after the rebates its only 300 bucks more.

I do tech support for an HVAC Manufacturer (Haier). Sizing the unit has nothing to do with SEER. It's strictly a capacity issue. Personally, I'd go for the highest SEER you can afford, using R410A refrigerant. Utility costs will only go up in the future.

Years ago, we installed 13 SEER equipment in our home because the builder wanted to put in 10 SEER at an inflated price, so I wouldn't get it from him. We keep our house cooler, and pay less in electricity, than our neighbors in the development who bought the builder's system.

Depending on your needs, one of the new multi-zone mini-split units may work for you. Some use variable-speed compressors and fan motors for greater economy. Mitsubishi and others make them. You get one condensing unit outdoors, which is piped to evaporator units located in different parts of the house. You don't need to run ductwork, which is a big cost savings. These systems are very popular in Asia and Europe.

I agree that the 95% furnace is a better deal. I'd also make sure to get the equipment from a reputable source to prevent warranty hassles in the future. Many manufacturers (Goodman, for one)will not warranty products sold online because there are places selling 'seconds' and other damaged goods and passing them off as first quality.

[Young Ed]

What he meant was with the rather small size of our house the energy savings between the two seer ratings would be very minimal. And yes it was the r410a refrigerant.