Jim Gaspard Posted February 21, 2010 Report Posted February 21, 2010 Since north Forum members sent a record 12 inch snowfall to Dallas last week, I was able to spend time working on my project truck. From time to time there have been posts on the frustration of removing the passenger side door lock because of rusted set screws. Factory set screws were steel with a round head slot, and few have survived the fifty plus years. After several attempts to remove mine with heat and PB Blaster, I was forced into the extraction method. The screw extraction kit is Craftsman. Naturally, the extractor forceably removed the set screw as well its welded nut. I used a new #10-28 thread 1/2 inch hex screw and a nut lock. The nut lock was re-set with JB Weld attached to a two inch #10 bolt, with a second build-up application 24 hours later. The longer setting bolt was replaced with the new 1/2 inch hex set screw which can easily be adjusted with a hex key. This replacement should last indefinitely or as long as the indestructable JB Weld holds. ORIGINAL RUSTED SET SCREW [/img] EXTRACTED SET SCREW WUTH NUT ATTACHED [/img] SET SCREW THAT HOLDS LOCK IN PLACE [/img] Quote
HanksB3B Posted February 21, 2010 Report Posted February 21, 2010 Over how long a period of time did you try to turn, soak, heat, tap, air-impact or whatever you tried to get the screw loose? Hank Quote
grey beard Posted February 21, 2010 Report Posted February 21, 2010 That wonderful little set screw absorbed many hours of my time, last winter. I finally drove the old lock cylinder outward from inside with a heavy punch. But even then, after I was able to get to both ends of the set screw, I could not get it to budge. I believe I soaked and heated - and rehated that little screw over a six month long period of time. One day I was able to turn it out. Replaced it with an Allen head type set screw. The entire problem seems to center around the inability to get a oood straight shot at the slotted set screw head, since it is actually countersunk below the level of the surrounding metal, limiting the size of the tool you can get in there. Next time I have to deal with one of these ornery things, I"ll drive out the lock cylinder and subject the screw to repeated red-hot heat-cool cycles. No chemical I could find had any effect on it whatsoever. May be some sort of disimilar metal problem we're dealing with here, too. Seems like every one of us who restore these things has to bite the same nasty bullet . . . . . . Good Luck Quote
HanksB3B Posted February 21, 2010 Report Posted February 21, 2010 At the time I didn't have a lock cylinder so I wasn't in a big hurry. After I found a NOS tumbler for the ignition switch I was able to throw out the one size fits all Pep-Boys switch I was using and re-key the door lock that had shipped from a salvage yard in Montana, so now I'm keyed alike. I really have to thank Al Gore for inventing the internet. Just think Ebay wouldn't have been possible without him. Hank Quote
Jim Gaspard Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Posted February 22, 2010 I must confess I don't have the patience of Jobe, or Grey Beard. I spent maybe a week or less trying to loosen the set screw. Maybe even less patience as I am anxious to send the body parts to the blaster. Based on previous posts about failed attempts to budge the screw, I decided to back the screw out by brute force. Either it would back out or break the nut weld. It broke the weld. Then it was just a matter of improvising a new set screw. A hex screw (#10-28 bolt) made the most sense and JB Weld was the only method within my skills. Maybe not what the pros would have done, but I am pleased with the results. One note. The original set screw screws into a simple round nut that is spot-welded to the metal lock chamber. It is a small weld, and looks more like a solder weld. It didn't take much force to break the weld. Photos below tell the story, screw buffed to remove rust. TOP OF ORIGINAL SET SCREW STILL ATTACHED TO NUT BOTTOM OF ORIGINAL SET SCREW Quote
Dave72dt Posted February 22, 2010 Report Posted February 22, 2010 Your top photo shows why it's so hard to get them out. The screw ends up inset into the nut, past the nuts' outermost threads. Those threads corrode, and encapsulate themselves with rust making it physically impossible for them to be backed out. A quarter inch longer set screw would have been all that was needed to faciltate removal. Quote
HanksB3B Posted February 22, 2010 Report Posted February 22, 2010 I'll add it to my list: 1. Too small a hole on the rear brake backing plates where the bleeder valve is. 2. Insufficient weldment and poor choice of fastener on Door Lock (Mine wasn't that bad for sure) 3. Anything Else ? Hank Quote
John-T-53 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Posted February 25, 2010 Funny thing, I've been fighting this damn screw the past two months in short increments. I ended up drilling a hole in the center of the screw head for using an extractor. After breaking three screw extractors, I got a bigger drill bit and drilled it out further in hopes the lock cylinder would just fall out. I only drilled halfway into the nut, but nothing yet. Maybe I'll drill on it some more tomorrow...or next month. Is the nut attached to the lock cylinder or part of the door? Bottom line is I don't want to drill too much so that I ruin the lock. It's hard to see in there to figure out what's going on. Quote
Young Ed Posted February 25, 2010 Report Posted February 25, 2010 The nut is part of the door. It comes to a point so drill a tad push the lock drill some more push some more etc. Quote
Jim Gaspard Posted February 26, 2010 Author Report Posted February 26, 2010 This thread would not be complete without showing the lock cylinder and how it fits inside the door lock chamber. I hijacked two good photos from previous threads. The first photo is Reg's stock door lock, and the second is Merle's photo of a cut out section of the inside of the door. Here, the set screw is still in place securing the door lock. The set screw holds the the lock in place at a contact point, the rectangular piece at the top of the lock. REG'S DOOR LOCK MERLE'S SECTION OF INSIDE DOOR Quote
ssdodge51 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Anybody have an idea what size/thread the original set screw is? Quote
JBNeal Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I'd guess fine thread sumthin'ruther. I tackled this in '04 to replace the mangled door latches in the '49. Took one look at that durn thing and immediately went for the plug-in drill. Started with smallest bit I had, dulled it so used 3 more to get a pilot hole thru. Then went up bore sizes gradually until the lock fell out. The thought was to use a self-tapping screw into the old set screw to hold the lock, but may use a screw that sits proud of the boss but loose in my bore and JB Weld it in place. If I ever need to remove that lock in the future, the proud standing screw can be easily broken free. In theory. Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks Jim, now I don't have to dig up that picture. That's what you do when the screw won't come out and you're going to scrap the door anyway. Luckily the replacement door that I found had the screw already removed. As I recall it took a 10-32 screw, and like Dave I also used an Allen set screw. Merle Quote
HanksB3B Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 and some anti-seize. Every year or so I give it a little turn, just to remind me how much trouble it caused. Hank Quote
DollyDodge Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 I thought I would add my expereince with this little screw. I soaked and froze the screw over about 2 or 3 month period, I would give it a try each weekend and it never would move. I even modified a screw driver to address the offset through the hole in the door. I finally got the torch out this last weekend and tried that. The screw finally budged about a 1/4 turn and then the srewdriver slipped (under a great deal of force) and stripped the head. At that point my frustration over ran my good judgement and I got the drill and drilled the screw out and took the lock out. I also enlarged the door hole so I could have a straight shot at the screw. I have taped the screw hole for a 1/4 inch 28 thread screw and will use a set screw. Looking back on it I wish I had been a bit more patient, once the screw moved, I should have soaked it some more and tried again. It took a 13/64 bit to get the lock to come out. I guess this is another lesson in being patient that was missed. I think if I was to do this again, I would enlarge the door hole first off, so one could get a straight shot at the screw. The lock is in good shape and I will take it to a locksmith to get it keyed alike to the replacement ingnition switch I got from Canada. When my brother was driving Dolly Dodge in High School some kids took the original ignition switch, so for the last 30 + years it had a univeral switch. I found a replacement original from Canada on Ebay, so I want to get the door lock keyed to the new ingintion switch. When I had the lock out I decided to remove the door latch mechanism. I am glad I did. It was broke in several places (which I couldn't see with it installed), though still working. I welded it up and can't believe how nice it works now. Quote
HanksB3B Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Alright! Hank I guess Allen head set screws were not available in the 40's and 50's. Would have saved a lot of us grief. The Vogue is now to move from hex heads to torx head, (at least in high end bicycle manufacture) as I guess they have proved to be even more strip proof. Hank Quote
Young Ed Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Hank I think its was just because it was a lowly truck. My 48 plymouth used allen heads. Quote
HanksB3B Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 must have been one of the many previous owners messed with yours before you got it. Hank Quote
ktb Posted November 9 Report Posted November 9 Sorry to resurrect a 13 year-old thread... I have the same problem. Wondering if it would be easier to remove the door and bring that in to a locksmith? Would I need to drill out rivets on the door check link? Quote
JBNeal Posted November 9 Report Posted November 9 It would probably be easier to drill out that retaining screw than get those hinge pins out, them two can be a real bear. They might have long drill bits at the hardware store that can make this task easier. Quote
ktb Posted November 9 Report Posted November 9 12 minutes ago, JBNeal said: It would probably be easier to drill out that retaining screw than get those hinge pins out, them two can be a real bear. They might have long drill bits at the hardware store that can make this task easier. Thanks again JBNeal! Quote
ggdad1951 Posted November 10 Report Posted November 10 13 hours ago, ktb said: Sorry to resurrect a 13 year-old thread... I have the same problem. Wondering if it would be easier to remove the door and bring that in to a locksmith? Would I need to drill out rivets on the door check link? You need to get the lock out in order to reset the pins. Might be able to figure the pins out in situ, but might not. Yes, you'd need to drill the check arm rivet out. I've had luck in pulling door hinge pins....but they can be a pita. Or just unbolt the hinges. Even if you drill the screw out, youll need to keep the lock in place at reinstall. Hence why I did the post on the shaft collar. Break it off, shaft collar, problem solved. Quote
John-T-53 Posted November 10 Report Posted November 10 20 hours ago, ktb said: Sorry to resurrect a 13 year-old thread... I like it this way....consolidates information. And reminded me that I have not yet returned to finish removing my door lock since my last attempt 14 years ago as documented above.... humph 2 Quote
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