Spark+Compression+ Fuel should = run!

[jmooner3]

Hey guys - - I'm struggling with my 1950 230ci... Chased wiring and got spark Friday, Had 0 compression on 3 cyls - freed 2 exhaust valves and finally an intake valve on #4. Gave each cyl a drink of marvel and now 50-75psi across the lot. Got spark and reasonable compression... Fuel will pump to top of carb, pressurizes line but carb not drinking. Tried to take the carb out of the picture by aspirating fuel right into carb with spray bottle, got the engine to bark a bit -puffed some smoke but wouldnt pop over. Ran batery down three different times with same weak pop but no running...Pulled all plugs, each seemed to have fuel...maybe I flooded it???

I think what I have is a stromberg carb - Was going to look for a rebuild kit and go through the carb but figured I had a chance to get it cranking by working around the carb... any ideas what I should try next?

[Merle Coggins]

Take the top cover off of the carb and have a look into the float bowl. You may even want to pull out the float and check the needle valve. It may be stuck shut from sitting over the years. Get it cleaned up and freed up, fill up the float bowl with gas, put the cover back on, and try it again.

Good luck,

Merle

[Mustang6147]

sounds like timing to me... If you are feeding it fuel, then I would think it is getting spark after the valves are open. Double check the ignition...

[austinsailor]

If all else was right, you could leave the carb off and pour gas into the intake and get it to run briefly. Something is amiss with your timing, assuming you now have decent compression.

[Plymouthy Adams]

that is even compression but kinda low..the car will be normally a bit harder to start...have you tried starting fluid to boost the low compression...odds are once you get it running and up to temp it may increase your compression..odds are if the vlaves were stuck you may have a few rings stuck also...little upper cylinder lube in the gas will aid in getting them free..

[41/53dodges]

if the engine is quite as fickle as my 218, it floods REALLY easily, so im debating if you put too much fuel down the throat. do you have the plug wires on correctly?

[jmooner3]

Thanks Guys, keep the great ideas coming...

Merle, when I pull off the carb top to clean up the bowl and needle valve, will I need a new seal to put it back together? (I'll look it up on your NAPA site). The spark was kinda yellow, I got another coil and it is hotter (more blue). The wiring schematic shows ithe coil "backwards", I wired it that way (6V pos gnd). I pulled a plug laid it on the head and cranked it, spark is there. Austin & Mustang - how can I check timing?

Tim, I haven't tried starting fluid yet, do you give each cyl a squirt? Also what's upper cyl lube?

41/53 - yes plug wires are correct...The firing order is right, my boy and I checked that tonight. Distributor has wires in right order, where on the dist cap should #1 be. If I recall, mine was around "7oclock" on the dist?

[Merle Coggins]

The gasket might rip some when you remove that cover, but if you're gentle it should be able to be reused for now. Just don't disturb it any more than you have to. You will eventually want to fully disassemble and rebuild the carb anyway, or use the carb from your 1/2 ton engine, but this may help you to get the engine running for now.

How is your coil wired now? If you are still running 6 volt positive ground the positive post on the coil should be going to your distributor and the negative terminal goes to the key switch. As I understand it, the coil will still work if wired backwards but it won't be as hot.

Merle

[jmooner3]

Thanks Merle. Yes the coil is as you stated pos to dist. and there is a spark there. What is your take on starter fluid? Seems if I have a timeing issue it wouldn't matter what I put in there to explode... The gentleman I got the engine from said it ran not long ago in the condition it is in. Other than the stuck valves I have no reason to believe the timing chain is off or the dist. is wrong...

I recall as I was first turning it over I put my hand over it to choke and there was pressure coming OUT of the top of the carb...I suspect that might be the valves that were stuck, I haven't checked that since I freed them up.

Any ideas on quick and dirty ways to check if the timing / sequence is correct? I don't have a timing light (would it work on 6v anyway?)

[JoelOkie]

Jay, can you swap the carb off your other engine to this truck?

Also, I will caution you about something, and that being putting gas down an open intake manifold when you might have even one intake valve stuck open...you can get a good fire going quick. Don't ask me how I know that! Joel

[Merle Coggins]

Starting fluid can help get a stubborn engine running. Rather than spraying gas into the carb throat, give a few light squirts of starting fluid. It'll ignite much easier than gas and can give that little extra boost to clear the cob webs and get it running, provided it can still get gas and spark normally. Not too much though as it can do damage. I've had engines start locking up while cranking because of too much ether being sent into the intake.

Once it's running and warmes up a bit things should start loosening up and get back to normal. YOu could do another compression test then to see if it changes, but it sounds like you have a fairly decen engine there.

Merle

[jmooner3]

Joel thanks for the caution - I've been lit up before and it usually is for soemthing dumb that I have done:rolleyes: I pulled the tapet covers and after some coaxing all valves appear to be moving, not clear if they are sealing but moving is good! I can swap the other carb over, it is different then this one and it's unknown too as that engine hasn't run yet either.

Merle - you're talking squirt the start fluid right in the throat right? I have had luck in the past getting a motor to go by giving a squirt to each sparkplug, good idea on a flathead or no?

Any thoughts on the timing?

[MBF]

You can try taking out the #1 spark plug and rolling it over with the key off. If you hold your thumb over the plug hole-you hear and feel #1 coming up on compression. The timing mark on the crank pulley should also be lined up with the pointer. Now that you know #1 is up on compression, w/o rotating the crank-pull you distributor cap and see at which wire the rotor is point to. You may be off a cylinder or two and have to remove your wires to put get #1 lined up with the rotor. From there you can continue on replacing the wires 5,3,6,2,and 4 and it should be close enough to time to start-although you may have to loosen the distributor housing and make fine adjustments if it binds when hitting the starter. Good luck. Mike

[JBNeal]

Whenever I've had the '48 or '49 sitting for a few months, the first thing I do is pull the air cleaner off, hook up my temporary linkage to the carb, and start the motor from the driver side. From there I can engage the starter & work the throttle with both hands after shooting a 1 second burst of ether down the carb (choke open). With fresh gas in the filter & fuel pump bowls, startup time is about 10-15 seconds, saving the battery & starter from wearing out, among other things.

[Merle Coggins]

Yes, spray the ether right into the carb throat. If you spray it into the spark plug holes and reinsert the plugs it'll dissapate before you have a chance to crank it. If you spray it into the carb air stream it will be drawn right into the cylinders.

[Mustang6147]

be very carefull when Ether is involved. Ether causes the cylinder to heat up very rapidly, and parts expand, and scoring takes place. My level of experience is more with High compression race engine. This flathead stuff has my attention though. Even when diesel engines are experiencing hard startups, I would rather soak a rag in gas, and place it in the air box then hit it with ether. Dont force the engine to run, it should run fine if all is in check.

Ether to start an engine is like flooring an engine to fix a miss... good luck!

[jmooner3]

Spark+Compression+ ether=running engine! The bowl feeding the carb is a Carter and it has some kind of stone filter in it...it was not passing fuel well at all...Also the carb was gumed up, I took off the carb top, pulled the float, douched the screen, jets and needle valve, I bypassed the entire fuel delivery and went gravity feed right to the carb two squirts of ether and boom big clouds of billowing marvel mystery oil smoke and within 20 seconds it was purring like and old cagey alley cat! It idles well, hit the gas and it sputters...that's for next time. There's no radiator on her(hell there's no front clip or box either but who's counting) so I only drove to the end of the driveway and back using Ebrake to stop... I waited til my 10 year old came home from school so he could start her up(didn't tell him I had her running earlier) so in his mind he started her the first time ...HUGE smile and high-fives all the way around... This is an excellent day. Thanks to all for your wisdom and assistance!

[buds truck]

sweeeeet, especially letting your 10 year old think he is the first to get her running. He will remember that for a long, long time

[jmooner3]

Right on Bud;) Now he's hooked too!

I need to get a radiator, does anyone know of an aftermarket source or a place to find something close? I'm not doing a show truck, just a driver so in addition to needing the entire front clip, I need a radiator first so I can let the truck run for more than a minute at a time.

[Young Ed]

Try contacting these guys and see how their car ones compare to a truck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-1949-1950-1951-1952-PLYMOUTH-SEDAN_W0QQitemZ220557433010QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item335a3f58b2

[jmooner3]

Thanks for the radiator advice, however I won't be needing it all that soon. My boys and I started the 50 again just for a minute (no radiator hooked up) to hear the sweet sound of success, we hopped in and tried the clutch just to see if she would roll, she did and we shut her down, oddly there was steam wisping out of the coolent return hose on top of the motor, now mind you she ran for less than a minute, I pulled the dip stick to find a nice milkshake...

The only thing I can come up with is there must have been some coolent in the motor (remember no rad hooked up) and it must have turned to steam and blown the head gasket...Other theories? With the engine still warm all head bolts easily turned 1/4 turn...

Regardless, our nicely running engine that was all highfives and fun earlier in the week has turned to another opportunity to pull a head and change a gasket:( I was not planning on doing a ring job and prior to me cooking the engine the compression was around 70psi on all cyls... If I don't see anything glaring when I open her up, my plan is new gasket and while I have it apart I'll pull the water pump and cooling sytem check, give it a coat of paint and get it running again:rolleyes:

Another thing I noticed is there is no oil filter on this engine like my other one. Anyone have a spare oilfilter can and bracket to sell?

[Dave72dt]

Run another compression check before you pull anything. If you blew the head gtasket, it should tell you where to look specifically. If you didn't put in fresh oil before youy started the engine, you may have stirred up condensation that was in the bottom of the pan and may not have a problem at all. If you didn't add water, where did it come from?

[jmooner3]

Encouraging words Dave!!! I had pulled the dipstick when I brought her home and the oil was golden new, I spose it could have seperated from coolent when I heated it up. I had run the engine a couple times with no rad but never more than a minute and the head was never too hot to touch when I shut her down. I did rev it a few times it skipped and sputterd but idled fine, the exhaust was hot of course but again the head was never too hot to put my hand on... I drained the milkshake and will take your advice on checking compression again. It is confusing where the water/coolent came from with no coolent loop attached or presurized?????? Another compression test is in order.

[MBF]

Anytime I start something that has been sitting I always pull the drain plug and see what's lurking at the bottom of the oil. Could be condensation, or rain inflitration if its been sitting outside. One winter I bought a 47 John Deere A that the owner said was seized. Brought it home, pulled the drain plug-nothing not even oil! I put a drain pan under it and let it sit-when it warmed up one day I got over 4 gallons of water in the pan! Changed the oil and filt, started it up and it ran great! Since you didn't have a radiator hooked up, I'd imagine like Dave said-you've got condensation and whatever rain water was down in the block. Keep us posted-don't get discouraged-that's a nice find you've got there. Mike

[Frank Elder]

Spark+Compression+ ether=running engine! The bowl feeding the carb is a Carter and it has some kind of stone filter in it...it was not passing fuel well at all...Also the carb was gumed up, I took off the carb top, pulled the float, douched the screen, jets and needle valve, I bypassed the entire fuel delivery and went gravity feed right to the carb two squirts of ether and boom big clouds of billowing marvel mystery oil smoke and within 20 seconds it was purring like and old cagey alley cat! It idles well, hit the gas and it sputters...that's for next time. There's no radiator on her(hell there's no front clip or box either but who's counting) so I only drove to the end of the driveway and back using Ebrake to stop... I waited til my 10 year old came home from school so he could start her up(didn't tell him I had her running earlier) so in his mind he started her the first time ...HUGE smile and high-fives all the way around... This is an excellent day. Thanks to all for your wisdom and assistance!

You don't have a clip or a bed but you are still better off than these guys:D