No start - looking for suggestions

[Jim Yergin]

My 1941 Plymouth just quit on me on the way to work this morning. Had been running fine up until now. Would not restart and had to call AAA. Tonight I verified that I have gas, the pump is working and the carb float chamber is full. I have current from the ignition switch to the coil. When the points are open I have current at the coil to distributor terminal. When they are closed there is no current. With the ignition switch on, when I pull the points a apart I see a spark. I checked the continuity on the coil primary line to the distributor cap and it is good. However, when I tested using a spare spark plug grounded to the engine, with the ignition switch on there is no spark when I turn the engine over. The rotor and distributor cap are fairly new and look OK. I replaced the points and condenser about 1500 miles ago. Any suggestions as to what to check next? I have a spare coil I am thinking of trying but the no start is there whether the coil is hot or cold.

I appreciate any insight.

Thanks.

Jim Yergin

[mikesinky]

did you check the wire inside the dist. to make sure it isn't grounding against anything?

[moose]

Condenser. I would recommend buying several. Last time I had one go out on me, I had two or three new ones that didn't work. Then I bought four of them and I still have three in my glove box.

[Don Coatney]

Jim;

Check the buton in the inside top of your distributor cap and make sure there is spring tension on it forcing it down to make contact with the rotor tang. And make sure there is no corrision on the contact area between this button and the rotor tang. Use sand paper to clean both the button and the tang.

If this fails spray WD-40 inside your distributor cap and on to the points to displace any moisture and see if this helps.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Don Coatney

[greg g]

double check the point gap, sometimes they will sneak closed. I don't think the rubbing block material these days is up to snuff. I checked mine after coming back from maryland, and the gap was down to about .009. Reset and starting was a lot easier.

[Jim Yergin]

Thank you all for the suggestions. It looks like it was the coil. I switched it out and now I have spark. Trouble is that I also ran the battery down trying to start it as well as probably flooded it. After changing the coil it did fire a couple of times but not enough to keep going. I have it on the charger and will see how it is tomorrow.

Jim Yergin

[Joe Flanagan]

Jim,

Let us know what happens. Your coil couldn't be that old, could it? I wonder if this falls under the category of lousy replacement parts.

[greg g]

You might want ot pull your plugs and clean them, all that cranking with no firing they will probably some attention.

[Jim Yergin]

Greg,

Good idea. I plan on replacing them as well as the condenser. The plugs didn't look too good when I pulled them.

Jim Yergin

[Jim Yergin]

I was concentrating on two rules, you need spark and fuel to make it run. I forgot about the third, compression. I replaced the coil, the condenser and the spark plugs tonight. Got the engine to run but it was very rough. Within a minute I had a thick brown goo come surging out of the oil filler tube. A mixture of oil and coolant. I figure it is a blown head gasket. Hopefully I shut down the engine before the diluted oil could cause any damage. Fortunately I know from experience that the head gasket is pretty easy to change but of course the cold weather is coming back tomorrow. The head was machined and made flat 3000 miles ago and, since I re-cored the radiator last summer, it has not overheated. Could the problem I had with overheating last summer before I re-cored the radiator have caused this problem now?

Jim Yergin

[Joe Flanagan]

What would cause that to come up out of the filler tube? Seems like that's pretty far to travel from the crank case unless you have a lot more liquid in there now than four quarts of oil. I also don't understand why new coil, condenser, and plugs would have made a difference. Maybe the old plugs were fouled with antifreeze? I'd be really interested to know if overheating can cause a head gasket to go.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Wow- this kinda sounds serious? Once had a 61 Caddy that the guy said froze up so I put soft plugs back in filled it and filled it up-let it run-filled it up again and heard a loud pop and saw the oil filler cap shoot off and hit the hood and a 1-1/2" tube of milkshake goo started quickly coming out of the oil fill pipe. Ended up having a cracked intake from freeze up. The crankshaft whipped up a nasty coolant/oil mess!

Bob

[dirty dan]

I was concentrating on two rules, you need spark and fuel to make it run. I forgot about the third, compression. I replaced the coil, the condenser and the spark plugs tonight. Got the engine to run but it was very rough. Within a minute I had a thick brown goo come surging out of the oil filler tube. A mixture of oil and coolant. I figure it is a blown head gasket. Hopefully I shut down the engine before the diluted oil could cause any damage. Fortunately I know from experience that the head gasket is pretty easy to change but of course the cold weather is coming back tomorrow. The head was machined and made flat 3000 miles ago and, since I re-cored the radiator last summer, it has not overheated. Could the problem I had with overheating last summer before I re-cored the radiator have caused this problem now?

Jim Yergin

If it overheated after you milled the head, the answer is yes.

[Plymouthy Adams]

that would be a very large leak for it to pour out of the overflow...have you by chance suffered any extreme cold that may have done some internal block damage due to freeze?

[Jim Yergin]

that would be a very large leak for it to pour out of the overflow...have you by chance suffered any extreme cold that may have done some internal block damage due to freeze?

No extreme cold and I had a 50/50 antifreeze mix in the car.

Jim Yergin

[dirty dan]

With a serious head gasket leak and fighting a no-start problem, I could see where you could have been pupmping water into the crankcase for a while before it acutally ran. It doesn't take a whole lot of water to froth up the oil.

[martybose]

When you reinstalled the head, did you torque it, then warm it up (or drive a short distance) and retorque it again? I had to torque mine twice after the initial installation before the gasket stopped compressing.

The first time I took off the original head, there were 2 bolts that I could remove without needing a wrench because they were so loose.

Marty

[Jim Yergin]

When you reinstalled the head, did you torque it, then warm it up (or drive a short distance) and retorque it again? I had to torque mine twice after the initial installation before the gasket stopped compressing.

The first time I took off the original head, there were 2 bolts that I could remove without needing a wrench because they were so loose.

Marty

Marty,

I thought about that and do remember re-torquing the head. Thanks for the suggestion. I will certainly be extra careful this time around.

Jim Yergin

[Don Coatney]

I was concentrating on two rules, you need spark and fuel to make it run. I forgot about the third, compression. I replaced the coil, the condenser and the spark plugs tonight. Got the engine to run but it was very rough. Within a minute I had a thick brown goo come surging out of the oil filler tube. A mixture of oil and coolant. I figure it is a blown head gasket. Hopefully I shut down the engine before the diluted oil could cause any damage. Fortunately I know from experience that the head gasket is pretty easy to change but of course the cold weather is coming back tomorrow. The head was machined and made flat 3000 miles ago and, since I re-cored the radiator last summer, it has not overheated. Could the problem I had with overheating last summer before I re-cored the radiator have caused this problem now?

Jim Yergin

Jim;

When I first got my car on the road I had some overheating problems because my electric fan did not want to work as advertised. I recall a couple of times I was stuck in traffic and the fan would not run. My aftermarket gauge went above 220F and stayed there until I found a place to pull over and cool down. Once I got my electric fan dialed in and working to my satisfaction I have not had any problems. All of this hapened before I pulled into your driveway a couple years back. I have had no carryover (head gasket or otherwise) problems with my engine. So I dont believe from my experiance that your overheating prior to your re-core job had any effect on your current possible head gasket problem.

[Jim Yergin]

Wow- this kinda sounds serious? Bob

Bob sure nailed it. Tonight I removed the head and discovered the problem is not a blown head gasket - I only wish. Once the head was off I found that piston number three had disappeared. When it left it took a chunk out of the cylinder wall, that's where all the coolant came from. One of the valves for that cylinder was also broken at the stem. Well the last 3000 miles on my rebuilt engine were fun while it lasted. I guess I will remove the engine and tear it down to see what can be saved. I have my original 201 engine as well as another 230 block. Can anyone explain what happened? Was it something I did or failed to do in reassembling the engine? Was it a defect in the piston?

Here is a picture of the damage

Jim Yergin

[Joe Flanagan]

All I can say is OMG and WTF. I'm stunned, Jim. I have no idea how that could have happened. The day I was over there and we rode in that car, I thought the engine sounded unusually loud and it seemed to be knocking as well. Sure would like to see what the pieces of that piston head look like when you remove them from the oil pan.

Again, just call if you need a hand, I'll be happy to come out.

[Young Ed]

Hopefully you can save most of the engine by having that cylinder sleeved.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Bob sure nailed it. Tonight I removed the head and discovered the problem is not a blown head gasket - I only wish. Once the head was off I found that piston number three had disappeared. When it left it took a chunk out of the cylinder wall, that's where all the coolant came from. One of the valves for that cylinder was also broken at the stem. Well the last 3000 miles on my rebuilt engine were fun while it lasted. I guess I will remove the engine and tear it down to see what can be saved. I have my original 201 engine as well as another 230 block. Can anyone explain what happened? Was it something I did or failed to do in reassembling the engine? Was it a defect in the piston?

Here is a picture of the damage

Jim Yergin

I was going to say a cracked cylinder but pulled back not wanting to make it sound terminal-well now it is. Thats awful! Sorry Jim..

Bob

[Rodney Bullock]

Jim, I am very sorry this happened. I know how hard you worked on your car. This is very bad. I am so sorry.

[RobertKB]

That is unbelievable!! Makes my manifold removal struggle look like a Teddy Bear's picnic. I cannot imagine how that could happen unless the piston was defective. I am thinking you will likely have to use a different block as I would not trust that one if it was resleeved. With a hole that size I am not sure sleeving would stop all leakage. I am no expert and could be wrong. There are mechanics on this forum who I am sure will chime in with their thoughts. I am hoping that you will be able to salvage lots from the engine and it is good you have some spare blocks. I sure hope you get the engine work sorted out and can enjoy the car next year. All the best.