POC President Election

[TodFitch]

I am firmly in support of standards in judging and have no problems with the POC choosing the factory specifications to be used when judging. What I oppose is their minimum point requirements. If no cars in a particular class do not garner enough points to meet certain levels then there no one gets that trophy. It is possible at a POC national meet, for several cars to show up in a class, but none of them get a trophy if none of them are good enough by POC standards. It has happened often that they don't give a 1st place trophy since none of the cars in the class were good enough. I've even seen one time where there was no second place trophy, but a first and a third. I think that would go a long way towards those of us that don't have perfect cars, but want to get judged either to get advise on what is correct or want a trophy for a nice looking car. ...snip...

The AACA uses a similar judging scheme: Awards are based on points. You might have 4 first place cars in a class or you might have no "winners" (1st, 2nd or 3rd) at all. If you are judging a car to a standard rather than against other cars that happen to show up this kind of judging makes sense. For the POC, and I think maybe also the AACA, you can request copies of the judging sheets from the national organization after the show and they will send the to you. So you can see what the judges thought was wrong. Note I did not say what was wrong, only what the judges (who are human) thought was wrong.

I happened to have my car at the 2007 Santa Maria event and was going to have it as "do not judge" but had my arm twisted and had it judged. Turns out there was no 1st or 2nd in the class but a number of 3rd place cars based on points. Surprisingly, at least to me, mine was one. My car is a "20 footer". Maybe a "15 footer" on a good day. And I am more into touring than shows so I am not obsessing too much about how well or how poorly it fares at a judged show. I'll be driving it to Portland next summer and am looking forward to the drive more than the show. Where, baring more arm twisting, I will probably have "do not judge" posted on it.

Regarding costs, the Golden State Region barely broke even on the event. And that was only because one of the region members made very substantial donations specifically for the event. The cost of entry did not come close to covering the costs the region incurred. I don't know about other regions, but I can understand why free entry would be frowned on if you know you are going to be making up the difference already out of region dues. National only puts up a little money for trophies. In the case of the 2007 Santa Maria meet the amount national put up did not totally cover the trophy cost.

Nick DeSimone has done a good job of leading the Golden State Region. He also happens to be a very nice guy. I don't know anything about the other candidates.

[Young Ed]

Perhaps what they need to do is have a second level of fee for people who just show up for the car show on saturday. The 2007 trophies were very nice and I'm not surprised to hear the national money didn't cover the cost. Our meet in 02 we had a wood worker in the club who made ours. We were able to make them all with the money provided.

[Tony Cipponeri]

;WOW, I didn't think there would be that much attention here on this forum about the POC election. I know Nick DeSimone very well, and he his not a high dollar kind of guy Nick is about as down to earth as you can get. Nick and his wife Char, have hosted our annual Christmas party, at their home, 7 of the 9 years our region has existed. AS for the cost of putting on a national POC meet, I don't really know where all of the money goes. David Maxwell designed and had all of our trophies made at the local high school. I do agree with Tod that the POC judging is fair, but they can not control the judges themselves. All said and done Nick is a good guy, and he was instrumental in starting our annual schoolarship fund, for automotive college kids. Tony C

[Norm's Coupe]

At this point, I am seeing several obituaries published in the Plymouth Bulletin, and no wedding or birth announcements. When I joined over 22 years ago, there may have been a few obits. a year, and every issue had at least one picture of a proud father driving his daughter to prom or her wedding in his Plymouth. I am concerned that the POC isn't having new younger members. I get annoyed when I read about and witness actions and behaviours that can only discourage people from joining whether they be a kid that just got a Plymouth or a guy that likes trophies and has the nicest car at his local shows and expects to bring home a trophy from his first national meet.

:D I see by your profile that you are much younger than I and several others on the forum, and probably in the POC. Not laughing at the obits or you, just your general comment about them compared to births and weddings. Being older I can understand why someone in their 30's or 40's would mention that. At that age most of your friends, etc. are either having children or just getting married. Fast forward into your late 40's/early 50's and you are seeing those people (and yourself) celebrating the birth of grandchildren. However, when you get into your 60's and above, the weddings cease, the births cease and your friends start passing away. So.......now instead of weddings, etc., you are attending funerals simply because everyone you know got old with you and are passing off one by one from age or illness due to their age.

When the wife and I were as young as you, we were always going to weddings (sometimes 3 a month or more), plus celebrating births of friends kids, etc. Then came the second phase with people having their grandchildren born. However, now we are in that last phase. We often talk about that at home. Seems like now all we go to is funerals.

So........as you mentioned the POC does need to attract younger people if they want to stay in business. To do that, they may need to change a few rules of the club. But..........one thing for sure. In order to attract those younger people they are going to have to spend effort AND more money than they do now on advertising the club. That money has to come from somewhere, and that's through dues, etc. for the club. Yes, you may be supporting a loosing function at some other city in the meantime. But.......in just about any venture one delves into, that new venture will generally be a money loosing venture for at least a year or more before it can support itself. The current club members will have to understand that and be willing to put out that money if they want the national to survive through the changing of the guard.

Again, not supporting any comments made by anyone either for or against. Just making the point.

[desoto1939]

Hi to all of the people that have been commenting on this issue. I was the Chairman for the 1998 NAtional Desoto Convention that was held in Valley Forge, PA.

There are great expenses that are incurred to run a national show and usually only a few people do all of the work. After the meet alot of people do finger pointing of the costs and if there is any money made on the event then everyone wants a piece of the pie. Some people get upset when one show was able to get more cars than the last show. But when you can increase the participation that should be a plus for everyone. Each show should try to build on the good points and try to find ways to bring in new blood and sometime you have to break the rules and take the heat for it but in the long end the hobby will become stronger

After my convention I was persoanlly run over the coals and poke with some very nasty comments. Hence forth that is why alot of people are not supporting the NAtional events. Just look at the AACA they are having a very hard time getting new blood into the organization. Most of the car people are hard working guys and gals and they have to spread the funds out to support their families, mortgages, college cost, etc and some are even out of work. If you did a poll of the number of car nuts and I use this term very loosely we use the cars as a means to meet other people, and drive our cars and to have fun restoring them to the best of our abilities and get a great deal of satisfaction. for alot of us this is our way to escape the issues that face all of us each day.

I do appreciate the people that can fully restore a vintage vehicle back to originality and if you have the financila means to do so that is great because this provides the others guys with the opportunity to see perferctions and also give the drive to better our own cars or trucks or what every vehicle we currently own.

The cost of maintaing a club will alwasy be going up from year to year and we all hate to spend more on membership fees but this can not be stopped as had been mentiion in prior posting on this issue. I suggest that everyone decide what they want to do either make a driver, add speed equipment, customize and even make an original car, but foremost the msot important aspect is that we all have a love for our cars and we need to make sure this is keep going strong no matter what direction you want to take.

I have met guys that can out buy me any day and i have met people that are just getting by from day to day. In my book I do not look at the money or lack of money that you might have or how great your car looks but I look at how you treat other people. For us older members we were taught a very simple rule during our childhood days and that was the Golden rule. Do unto others as you willhave do unto you.

These are just my thoughts on this. And if you can live by this simple rule the world will be a better place.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Norm's Coupe]

I tried to get a real club started back around 2001 and 02 named the P15-D24 Owners Club. I even tried writing a monthly news letter. But.......after about 6 or 7 months it became difficult for me to keep writing when hardly anyone contributed anything to write about. The newsletter was online. There were no dues for the club at that time either. Was meant to bring people who lived near one another together. That has seemed to take off a little in some area's like with the get togethers Tim Adams puts on. Even some other car shows where board members meet one another, plus just in normal travels.

So.....here's the suggestion. Since so many people sound like they don't like the rules of their current club, why don't we start a real club like the Pilot House guys did. Then we can write the by-laws of the club our self, elect our own officers of the club and have real meets around the country. We have more than enough people to get something like that right here. Then, you not only get a club that will give out the trophy at every show, etc., but one that will recognize all old Mopar's (modified or original) from the 50's on back, or whatever cutoff year we decide as a club. Probably won't be a smooth road to great shows or meets locally or national at first, but given time and effort by individuals in their own areas, it should eventually turn out to be a good club. Also one that would be able to attract the young blood needed, since there wouldn't be any rules to speak of against modifications.

Bottom line, you don't like something, do something about it. That's how my business got started 20 years ago. I didn't like the way things went (or their policies) with the new owners of the company I worked for. So........I struck out on my own and haven't looked back once. You just have to set your mind to doing it, then do it.

Keep in mind though. Even if we did that, not everyone would like everything decided upon in the new club. No one can please everyone in a large group, or even a small one sometimes.

[steveplym]

Norm I like your idea. I think the problem for me with the POC is it isn't laid back enough for me. I have enough rules and stuff to follow at work that I don't want to do that in my hobby!!! I like the get together and the Saturday and Friday night cruises much better than a show any day. I've been to shows that started out as a 10 or 20 car get together and now become shows basically. No awards, just people getting together, have a bite to eat possibly, and enjoying the cars. The public can always be invited.

I think the no mods thing and that people put you or your car down due to mods being done kind of turns me off a bit. That is why I don't hang with that crowd. I like an original car, purity is cool. If I like driving my car though and want to add an alternator, radial tires, and/or an overdrive that should be something I can do. I'm no less of a person because of it, and my car is no worse or better than yours. If you like all original that is great too. I think we should all just get along and enjoy each others cars. I love meeting new people and sharing stories and the interests. It's all about the people here folks, once they are gone do the cars really matter anyway?

[Plymouthy Adams]

Norm, while the idea is marvel..you still have to consider the geographical aspect of the membership at large..way spread out and thus any meeting/event would still entail long long hard drives for a majority of the members...as Ihave seemed to notice in the past, most events are centered around a local chapter if applicable or near the home of a worker bee as it is necessary to be this way in order to make all local arragements ahead of the event...so basically we are back to square one..just who is really benefitting...

this forum is an ideal media for communicating with like minded people (well, close as alike you can probably going to get) and it is like the cruise in where you can come and go at your own free will..

PLUS we can still list parts sell/buy, few jibs and jabs..have private conversation per PM...I would think one thing that would be nice for forum members is a dash plaque per this affiliation

[David Maxwell]

I helped organize and run the National meet in CA in 2007. I felt our entry fees etc. were extremely reasonable and our Golden State Region dues are ridiculously low. I just don't see a connection here. Nick is a great guy and really does want to see the club attract more young Plymouth owners. To this end, I think his emphasis will be on reaching out to them through club activities that would attract both their attention and participation and hopefully they would join as a result.

Does any one know anything about the three guys running for POC President? The little bio that the three candidates supplied really doesn't answer any questions that I want to know.

Nick DeSimone makes mention of getting regions to work together, and to get younger people to join the POC, but absolutely no specifics. If the national meet held in California is any indication, the POC dues may become too expensive for this Missouri redneck to consider maintaining membership much longer if Nick DeSimone has his way.

The other two guys (Richard Silhol & Carl V. VanBibber) just tell us their work resume and tell us nothing about the vision they have for the future of the POC.

I'm pretty confident that all three of these men are familiar to some one on this forum as all three are recent regional presidents of the POC.

Right now, I am planning on writing in Ed Juneau's name. Please give me good reasons why to vote for or against any of my four choices.

Frankly, I just want to keep getting my Plymouth Bulletin at the same quality for as little cost as possible. I think I am among the majourity of POC members in that we have little interest in competing at a national POC meet, and would prefer that the nearest region's meetings and events be more about cars and driving them than sharing pictures of the grandkids and getting a bite eat.

If these individuals happen to be members of this forum, I'd love to read what you have planned.

[David Maxwell]

Any national event should showcase the local attractions of a region. This provides people who are traveling distances great and small to make the most of their journey. On the California Coast, wine tasting is just one of the many attractions that people are interested in. All activities at the event were optional. Some participated in the wine tasting. Others went to the Great American Melodrama which is an excellent bargain. Others simply enjoyed FREE visits to the Air Museum and a private car collection in nearby historic Los Alamos or just cruised the local scenery. We also provided a list of local activities and I believe one was the Santa Maria Speedway. We tried very hard to make sure there was something for everyone. I didn't meet a single participant that did not thouroughly enjoy themselves.

I don't have any problems with the dues increasing to $30. I just remember looking at the brochure for the national meet in California a couple of years ago and suffered from sticker shock. Most of us involved with old cars are blue collar guys so wine-tastings and vineyard tours and I can't remember what all else now struck me as very high-brow. If Nick wants to have a national club that caters to that crowd, well, I'm really not interested. I'm much more interested in factory tours and visits to the racetrack. Stuff like that. I'm sure that Nick's a decent enough guy, but that's not my scene at all. For the national club to do much more than it already does, it will need to consider hiring staff and with that comes dues increases for all of us.

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm, while the idea is marvel..you still have to consider the geographical aspect of the membership at large..way spread out and thus any meeting/event would still entail long long hard drives for a majority of the members...as Ihave seemed to notice in the past, most events are centered around a local chapter if applicable or near the home of a worker bee as it is necessary to be this way in order to make all local arragements ahead of the event...so basically we are back to square one..just who is really benefitting...

this forum is an ideal media for communicating with like minded people (well, close as alike you can probably going to get) and it is like the cruise in where you can come and go at your own free will..

PLUS we can still list parts sell/buy, few jibs and jabs..have private conversation per PM...I would think one thing that would be nice for forum members is a dash plaque per this affiliation

Tim,

I know what you are saying about geography being a problem. That's also a problem with the POC. They are usually spread out over at least 250 mile radius. If you look at the web site for the Wisconsin POC though they are spread out over the whole southern half of the state. Lots of miles in between those guys. But........they work it out to have monthly meetings. According to the website, they have the monthly meetings on a rotating basis at or near one of their homes. Sometimes the meeting is at one individuals house, or that individual that month sets some activity up in his area for the members. All they do at the monthly meeting is maybe have a bite to eat somewhere, talk about whatever and maybe do a tour of some local place. That only takes a few hours each month, not all day like a car show. Makes for a nice drive on a weekend day, either in their modern cars or old one. So........if they can do it, so can we.

As for strictly doing things via the forum. That's OK, but I'm sure you'll agree it would be more fun to do things in person. Just because one is a member of that club, doesn't mean they must attend every function of that club. They don't do that with the POC or any other club. Just look at their attendance record. They boast about 3,000 members, but.........you only see a handful at their national/regional meets.

Also, when I said we should do as the Pilot House people did by forming a formal club, I didn't mean everyone on the forum must join, just those who were interested in doing so. Still would not have anything to do with the forum except using it as a communication avenue. Since the club would be using the forum though, any dues collected by the club for functions should include a percentage of the dues be set aside and paid to GTK for use of the forum.

[Captain Neon]

I helped organize and run the National meet in CA in 2007. I felt our entry fees etc. were extremely reasonable and our Golden State Region dues are ridiculously low. I just don't see a connection here. Nick is a great guy and really does want to see the club attract more young Plymouth owners. To this end, I think his emphasis will be on reaching out to them through club activities that would attract both their attention and participation and hopefully they would join as a result.

Can you give examples of how he intends to do this? Open-ended statements from a buddy don't encourage me to vote that way. I am esp. leery about the future of the POC after you tell me that the costs of hosting a national meet exceed the proceeds. It's, then, only a matter of time before the national leadership team grants a larger subsidy to regions hosting national meets from my dues. Much more than $5/issue for a magazine, and I think a lot of people are going to choose to get a subscription to Hemming's Motor News instead.

I'm going to be perfectly frank, if the future of the POC is to become another muscle car or hotrodding club, then I don't see much a future when there are organisations like F.A.S.T. or most local MoPar muscle car clubs.

[Young Ed]

Ben I don't think the costs of a national always exceed whats brought in. Our club made a little on the 2002 meet we held in MN. Now that meet was before the economy went to heck and we had quite a few cars. That CA meet was held when gas prices were extremely high and that probably kept cars away. Hopefully as the economy recovers more people will attend and allow the clubs to make money.

[claybill]

WE ALREADY HAVE A P15-D24 CLUB. we are it! all someone has to do is open their place for a visit..and plan somethnig. all can come. no rules, no nothing. just come, and we can cook out and talk, and visit local stuff. 5 or 50..doesnt matter.

bill

[daddyo23]

Perhaps what they need to do is have a second level of fee for people who just show up for the car show on saturday. The 2007 trophies were very nice and I'm not surprised to hear the national money didn't cover the cost. Our meet in 02 we had a wood worker in the club who made ours. We were able to make them all with the money provided.

That's all I was able to do at Wis. this year, show up on Saturday. I found Young Ed and Merle and a couple others from the site (Claybill for one). I saw a couple members from our chapter and they said hello but that was about it. I was having a little problem with my clutch and only Ed, Merle and Ed's dad really seemed to want to help. I had the car there but its not a stock color so not many people even acknowledged (sp) it. Didn't get a real "homey" welcome feeling there, Except from "our" people.On here, I almost always feel welcome

[Norm's Coupe]

That's all I was able to do at Wis. this year, show up on Saturday. I found Young Ed and Merle and a couple others from the site (Claybill for one). I saw a couple members from our chapter and they said hello but that was about it. I was having a little problem with my clutch and only Ed, Merle and Ed's dad really seemed to want to help. I had the car there but its not a stock color so not many people even acknowledged (sp) it. Didn't get a real "homey" welcome feeling there, Except from "our" people.On here, I almost always feel welcome

I think you'll find that same type of welcome at most shows, even some cruise ins. Some in the hobby don't know a bushing from the steering wheel. They don't even know where to buy parts. They had their cars built by someone, or they bought it that way. Of course, you always have the aloft type at shows too. I found that out when I first bought my P15 coupe. Went to a local Mopar show located at a Chrysler/Plymouth dealership, and put on by the Wisconsin Mopar Club. There were at least three 40's Plymouths there, including two P15's. Being new to the P15 I ask two of them how they did something and where did they get their parts, etc. Both said they didn't know, they bought the car that way. The only one there was Ed Gross (of this forum) that had any answers at all. So........that's probably why they didn't want to talk about how to fix your clutch. They didn't have a clue.

[Plymouthy Adams]

WE ALREADY HAVE A P15-D24 CLUB. we are it! all someone has to do is open their place for a visit..and plan somethnig. all can come. no rules, no nothing. just come, and we can cook out and talk, and visit local stuff. 5 or 50..doesnt matter.

bill

duh...!! October 31st...Elko Georgia...be there..plenty of tires to kick over 5000 sq feet of cluttered up barn and work shop...(brought to you by the TRUTH IN ADVERTISING act of 2007)

[bob_amos]

I can't speak of the other two guys, as I don't know either of them, but I can speak for Nick. I have the good frtune to be a personal friend of his. He's as devoted to the club as anyone that I have ever known. He gives of his time freely and is always available to help out in any way possible. In many cases he has done things for the Golden State Region with all the cost being donated out of his own pocket. (A lot of our members are that type of people.) As to rising prices, we all know that it does no good to dodge the fact that EVERYTHING is costing more. If we want this club to continue we must face that fact that it will be more expensive to operate and maintain the current high quality levels that we enjoy as members of the POC. Anyone that runs on a platform that does not face this issue is not the man that should be in the top office. Ignoring the rising costs does not stop it from happening. Better we address it now when the cost to us, as members, is controlable and not to wait and find out when it is too late. Nick is the president of the Golden State Region and we actually found ourselves with a bit of a surplus in funds 2 years ago. As a result, he, along with the rest of the membership, decided to lower the renewal fees for the following year and level that surplus off. So, if he says anything about increasing membership it must truely be needed. But, by the same token, if it is found that it is not needed I can assure you that he will first in line to make sure that it does not occure.

One of you made the comment about the wine tasting events at the National we held. When you are along the central coast of California it is the primary tourist attraction of the area. We offered the wine tours because it is one of the best wine areas in the country. (And I live in the Temecula area which is also a great wine area but not as good as the Santa Maria area in my opinion.) It would have been shear stupidity to not offer those tours. People from all over the county as well as the world would expect it. But, we also had other events that were not the "highbrow", as one of you called it, as the wine tasting. The members that attended the wine tasting enjoyed it and those that did not attend enjoyed the events that they attended.

If you could have seen the work and time that Nick put into that National you would know the passion he has for this club. His contribution in time and cost were far more than anyone would have been expected of him, or anyone for that matter.

Personally, it is my opinion that new directions are in order to help sustain the growth and future of the POC. Nick is a westerner with ideas that may not always sit well with those in eastern parts of this country but he's as honest and sincere as the day is long. Someone has to be a realist and do what is necessary in order to assure the continued success of the POC. It may not be popular to address these issues during a run for the office of president, but at least we know what the facts are and what to expect.

It is my opinion that we could not find a better, more devoted man to run our club than Nick.

Now, please, let's not run this like our coutries political leaders do. Tearing someone down is not the answer. I suggest that anyone that knows the other two members running for the office tell us about them. Hey, if I end up feeling that one of them are the better man then I may just cast my vote for them. After all, I want the best for our club and that would mean that he who is best qulified should be running things.

[Captain Neon]

WE ALREADY HAVE A P15-D24 CLUB. we are it! all someone has to do is open their place for a visit..and plan somethnig. all can come. no rules, no nothing. just come, and we can cook out and talk, and visit local stuff. 5 or 50..doesnt matter.

bill

I tend to agree with you, Bill.

[Norm's Coupe]

I agree with Bob Amos on the wine tasting tour. I don't consider things like that a "highbrow" activity. Just about everyone enjoys a nice glass of wine from time to time. And, like he said, it is one of the main tourist attractions in California. You see those tours in all the vacation books and the California Chamber of Commerce literature. We even have wine tasting at places not more than about 5 or 10 miles from me in Cedarburg, WI. They do it in the winery to promote their wine, which is what they are doing in California. It's simply a way to get people to try and HOPEFULLY, buy their wine. And, the wines are usually not the "highbrow" wines. They are usually priced so anyone can afford them. Most of those places only give you a small plastic/disposable cup of about an ounce or less. About the size as a shot glass to taste. Plus, admission to the wine tasting around here is free. During the Christmas season they have Cedarburg at Christmas days to promote the city. If you go to the winery during that period, it's packed with people from all walks of life looking around, dressed in everyday clothes and tasting their wines, cheese and crackers, etc. You'll also find the same activities every day up in Door County, WI, and I believe in Galena, IL.

[james curl]

Our local car club took a tour to Shiner, Texas to the brewery there, we were all given five three ounce cups to sample the five different beers they brew or fifteen ounces of any one, your choice. The Morgan Club of Texas was in the middle of their tour when arrived and we got to see their cars and they saw ours. The tour was a private affair for the two clubs on a rainy Saturday fall afternoon, all of the help was volunteer employees and we watched them bottle all the different brews. I guess you could call this a low class affair.

Edited September 30, 2009 by james curl
spelling

[greg g]

Perhaps those of you that are familiar with the candidates could refer them to my post on the POC board regarding changes that might attract more membership. I know that site gets about 20% of the traffic this site gets and by nature the POC group seems anti communication tech savy. At Fridays meeting there was a 20 minute discussion why

e mail might be preferable to telephone trees and or smoke signals. It would nice to see the candidates reaction to the changes in print so that all might read them.

[Captain Neon]

I agree with Bob Amos on the wine tasting tour. I don't consider things like that a "highbrow" activity. Just about everyone enjoys a nice glass of wine from time to time. And' date=' like he said, it is one of the main tourist attractions in California. You see those tours in all the vacation books and the California Chamber of Commerce literature. We even have wine tasting at places not more than about 5 or 10 miles from me in Cedarburg, WI. They do it in the winery to promote their wine, which is what they are doing in California. It's simply a way to get people to try and HOPEFULLY, buy their wine. And, the wines are usually not the "highbrow" wines. They are usually priced so anyone can afford them. Most of those places only give you a small plastic/disposable cup of about an ounce or less. About the size as a shot glass to taste. Plus, admission to the wine tasting around here is free. During the Christmas season they have Cedarburg at Christmas days to promote the city. If you go to the winery during that period, it's packed with people from all walks of life looking around, dressed in everyday clothes and tasting their wines, cheese and crackers, etc. You'll also find the same activities every day up in Door County, WI, and I believe in Galena, IL.[/quote']

If the wine-tasting is an opportunity for the wine-maker to promote its product, why did it cost so bloody much at the Santa Maria meet? Tours at the Coors Brewery in Golden CO, at least the last time I checked, are free.

[Captain Neon]

Nick is a westerner with ideas that may not always sit well with those in eastern parts of this country but he's as honest and sincere as the day is long. Someone has to be a realist and do what is necessary in order to assure the continued success of the POC. It may not be popular to address these issues during a run for the office of president, but at least we know what the facts are and what to expect.

Bob, can you elaborate about Nick's "realist" "westerner" "ideas that may not always sit well with those in eastern parts of this country?" I'd love to hear them. The problem is that no one is addressing the issues. They just all claim to be doing a great job as a regional president and that the national meet that they had was a rousing success. How do they quantify that they were "huge successes?"

This Missouri redneck contends that reality is that over 2000 members of the POC like to get their Plymouth Bulletin, and could care less about national events or region activities. This Missouri redneck does not equate success with an event that doesn't at least break even.

We've been told that the Santa Maria car show did not even break even and that the region had to make up the deficit. I don't know if this is typical or not. I think the 2000+ subscribers to the Plymouth Bulletin that don't go to national meets for various reasons would rather not see their dues go up more to subsidise more events. As most members do not attend national meets, maybe reality is that they should be discontinued rather than a larger subsidy be given to the regions to hold them. As everyone is driving to these events, perhaps, it may be wiser that these national meets be held in smaller towns that have less traffic and lower cost accomodations.

[Joe Flanagan]

Just about everyone enjoys a nice glass of wine from time to time.

Some people enjoy a nice gallon of wine from time to time. Like every day. Of course, those aren't the types you would want joining your club, or any club for that matter because that's definitely a lowbrow activity. Would be funny to see one of them show up at a POC meet, though. I'd pay double dues to see that.