Prewar cars, their importance to history

[Rodney Bullock]

I was looking at a special on FDR today, at the end of the special as the train was making it's way accross the states carrying his body to it's final resting place. I watched at how people and cars were lined up along the railroad tracks. It made me think of the fact that during this major crisis in America all the people, industry and the world was on one page. Those cars from 1936 to 1941/42 were here and lived though the most trying time in our history. I think because of FDR's illness he used those open Packards to his advantage, He traveled everywhere and was seen in some of the most grand convertibles of his time. These cars made him look strong and connected. When I look at the 1940 and 1941 cars I own, they remind me of a survivor and a reminder of what was in our past. The frontal design looks much like what we lost on Dec 7, 1941. The great Navy ships. The motors these cars used the 6 cly mystery that seem to last forever. The body of these cars that stand so tall and the interiors that seem to extend the living room outside the home. I watch as folks turn these cars into street rods and think sometimes could they be desacrating a memory or extending the life of these fine machines. Some of the folks here have some great looking cars in their original form, they are beautiful, outstanding examples. They are so regal with the white walls and cloth interiors. You all should be commended on your fine design and great color choices. Keep up the good work and enjoy your summer:D I think I am!

[RobertKB]

Rodney, you explained very well how I feel about the old cars. They give me a sense of history. I love sitting in my '38 Chrysler and thinking of the conversations that took place in it during World War Two about the great events unfolding at that time. To me these old cars are a piece of history and we are their temporary custodians. I guess that's why I like keeping them as stock as is reasonably possible. Sounds corny but that's how I feel.

[Joe Flanagan]

Rodney, you hit the nail on the head. That's the way I feel about these cars. To me, it's a privilege to be able to bring one of them back as close to original as possible. When my car was made it was the year of Roswell, the height of the Red Scare, and the dawn of the 1950s. I like to tell people that my car was featured in the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still." It's the final scene in the taxicab in Washington, DC. As far as I'm concerned, it's a piece of history.

[gnoub1948]

Rodney, you've got it right! I'm trying very hard to keep my '48 as close to original as possible. Although, being a basket case of sorts, makes it much harder, or at least much more expensive. I admit thought, better braking; an alternator and some a/c are always in the back of my mind. I can say that the 6 Volt alternator I put in my '50 Buick made a world of difference. Anyway...

I used to drool over customs as a kid. Now I think it's a shame that every '49 - '51 Merc has been chopped, etc. I think it's such a beautiful car as it is. I'm not saying that customizing or street rods are wrong, it's just not as appealing to me anymore.

I saw a hot rod '41 Packard at the Barrett Jackson show 2 years ago. The first thought that came to my mind was how could you do that? Maybe it was lying in a field beyond hope. OK, if that was the case, I can deal with it.

Aside from the historical aspect, these old cars were part of the one car family era. To me they were more than just transportation. They were the family car and Dad's love object. How many families go out for a Sunday drive these days? Actually, it seems that only us old car lovers do that now.

Gary

[greg g]

Wow rodney has turned into the Bard of Bawlimore. Nice observations whihc tie ordinary items to out sense of history and common purpose.

[desoto1939]

rodney,

Great post. Since the world is moving at such a fast pace today I love driving my old 39 Desoto because the world gets to slow down for part of the day. Everyone in their modern car is going past me on the highway to no-where go 65-75 miled per hour while I am driving down the road between 45-50. I get to enjoy the sites, take a breath of fresh air, get to relax and enjoy what i currently have and not want for more just to keep up with the Jone's.

Life moved at aslowere pace, we all respected each others items, we looked after our neighers especially our older sernior citizins. We could even leave our front doors open and not be concerned of some violating our space.

This is why we are all part of a very special organization of people that what to keep some of the past in our lives and want to keep some of our history in perspective. How many times have we all gone to a Nuring home with our cars and the residents all come out to look at each car. They do not care if the car is perfect or not. It brings back the memories of their lives with their friends, family and of the times that were important. It is a very calming site to see the smiles that come to each of their faces and I am every so glad that I can make someones day aliitle bit brighter for a few moments.

To me this is what this whole car experience is all about. Memories is what keeps all of us alive and kicking.

Rich Hartung

desoto 1939

Edited May 5, 2009 by desoto1939

[Bingster]

I enjoyed your post, Rodney. I've just finished a book on FDR and how we got into the war and what happened throughout. I've always liked that WWII period of the early to mid forties, and what the country had to do to come together to defeat Japan and Germany. It is literally a gift from God that we won.

In retrospect, I have come to the conclusion that I skimmed off the cream from that era - the Andrews Sisters, the ad art, the music, the movies - without having actually lived through them I'm 55 and our current times gives me some idea of what it must have been like to live through the Depression and WWII. They had no hindsight to enjoy the better aspects of their era, but had to live with the horror of poverty and war.

And yet, I'll take those days over today, and I think that is what draws many of us to the past and linking to it through these automobiles. I really love Art Deco and Streamline Moderne which were the rage in the thirties and somewhat less in the forties. I think we as a nation have dumbed down morally and architecturally. Remnants of Deco and Moderne exist in the retro designs, and when I first saw the PT Cruiser on a billboard I literally pulled my car over and stared up at it in awe. How retro!

I am consrtantly trying to figure out this whole time thing. Think of this a moment. When you are driving in your car, you are seeing the future through the front window, you are sitting in the present and the past is in your rear view mirror. Yet viewed from above, the entire thing is in the present.

The future, present and past really do co-exist. As soon as a second ticks you are past it and into the next. I've thought a lot about what time actually is. Our old cars represent time frozen in a particular design and mentality. The old cars are very naive in their design. I don't mean simple or crude. Back in the thirties the teardrop was thought the ideal form. On some cars they took that idea and transfered it quite literally. But the fenders of that era reveal the thinking of that age. I think graceful may be the word I am looking for. Class. Elegance. And like now, money dictated how much of each you would get in a car.

Grilles were a big unique design feature. The shape of the hood where it meets the grille. All that. I have a '47 Desoto that I am refurbishing to as built. Black. Fairly elegant for its day. I also think of where it has been and what has happenned in the world since it was built. Interestingly enough, mechanical things don't change their appearance as humans do. They may disintegrate but we can bring them back to how they looked when they were built.

The average citizen looks at one of our old cars and greatly admires them. I think there is a natural drawing power of old things, hence all the antique shops. People seem to want to go back in time. To better times? Childhood? Simpler times? Humans - at least Americans - do seem to have a respect for the past. You know, when you think about it, a person could totally immerse themselves in any era they want through antiques, the car they drive, etc. They could live in their head whenever they wanted. Only our culture would betray the illusion. Plus, reality is in our minds anyway. We do make our own life. The earth is a prop that we walk through, and we can carve out any existance we wish if we wish it bad enough.

Okay, maybe far too philosophical for this forum. But I know that a lot of you guys must think these things by the mere fact that you dig these old cars. I know Rodney does. He was interpreting the death of FDR through the cars he saw. He saw more that old film, old cars. He saw and felt the vibes - for want of a better term - of that era. And that's what these cars give off - the old vibes.

Enough!

[gnoub1948]

Good words Bingster.

Talk about movies and cars: We seem to watch the Bishop's Wife every year at Christmas time. Love to watch that movie since there's a scene from the back seat looking out the front window of a '46 - '48 De Soto cab. The best part is the dash...."hey there's my car!" I like the idea that I'm looking out the same window (soon I hope) and staring at the same dash (soon I hope) which I love that Carey Grant was looking at when he was making a movie that's become a family tradition.

Gary

[RobertKB]

Bingster.....................perfectly put.

[Bingster]

We always watch The Bishop's Wife two. "My" '47 Desoto black sedan is also in this movie. Remember when Cary is crossing that street early in the movie and a car screeches to a halt just in time? Yep, a '47 Desoto. What year was that movie? Could have been a '46 or '48. They'd all look the same. Are you talking about Sylvester's taxi?

[gnoub1948]

Yes! Love that Dash! I just bought an almost perfect Speaker grill on eBay a couple of days ago. The price was a real bargain. I'm happy that I don't have to try to re-chrome mine!

Gary

[TodFitch]

We always watch The Bishop's Wife two. "My" '47 Desoto black sedan is also in this movie. Remember when Cary is crossing that street early in the movie and a car screeches to a halt just in time? Yep, a '47 Desoto. What year was that movie? Could have been a '46 or '48. They'd all look the same. Are you talking about Sylvester's taxi?

Internet Movie Database says the movie was released in 1947: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039190/

You can watch it for free (with commercials) at Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/the-bishops-wife

It does have some good vintage car scenes.

[Rodney Bullock]

Oh man, you guy's really get it:)You see it. When I was writing it I was trying not to be corny. I just think these cars , the era and the great designers need to be commended. Raymond Lowey has designed so many things that we have touched it is'nt funny. That Coke bottle, Lucky stripes box. The Studebakers and Avanti. He also designed some boats and the streamliner trains. Bingster you put into words all that I am thinking, very nice. Gary It may look bad now however if you just keep pecking away at it you will be there, look at how far Joe has come in the short time I have known him. He has leaped ahead. You know Robertk when I was talking about the elegance of a auto I saw your car, it's royal something about the white wall makes the car bigger than life. I reminds me of wearing a tux with the white shirt and tie and tails. Don't forget the hat.

[gnoub1948]

Rodney, I think Lowe did the Greyhound Bus terminals too.

I was in the garage working on Frankie for a bit and I kept looking at him and wondering why I'm trying to do this? But,then I realized, I could never junk this car. I don't know why. It just seems wrong. So, I hope I can bring him back from the dead. And of course, I'm partial to '48 since that's the year I was born.

Speaking of movies, there's a Bogart movie, the name of which escapes me, that got me very interested in '36 Plymouth coupes since he's cruising in one through out the movie. Love the lines of that car, and I love the scene where he's staying the night some where cold and someone that works either at the Inn or station nearby offers to drain the block so it doesn't freeze.

I was working on the front suspension tonight, for a change of pace, and I couldn't get the king pin lock out. So, coming back to the house, I pulled out one of my shop manuals (an original) to see what I may be doing wrong, and while reading I thought how much I love the smell of these old books, and then wondering if there actually was some guy in a lab coat reading this manual while working on a car, in this case, a '48 Dodge, maybe listening to some old radio program.

OK, I'll stop now.

Gary

[Bingster]

Lowey did the Greyhound buses but a guy named W.S. Arrasmith did a large number of the Greyhound terminals beginning with a fabulous streamline design in Louisville in 1937. I stumbled on a book about him and his terminals called The Streamline Era Greyhound Terminal that is a great look at that era. Also, there is a web site with photos of a great many of them plus a lot of other Art Deco stuff. I'll find it and post it.

[Bingster]

http://www.agilitynut.com/roadside.html

This is a great site!

[Joe Flanagan]

Here in Washington DC there is an old Greyhound terminal from the 1930s that has been preserved and is now incorporated into a cluster of high rise office buildings. It's a great Art Deco building and it was saved with the help of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. They actually won an award for the way they incorporated it into the new stuff that went up around it. I can practically see it right now outside my window. We also have a book on all the old White Castle hamburger stands and the ideas behind the architecture. Someone posted here earlier about the early cars being so much more than cars, that a lot of thought went into their style and appearance. You should read the things they were thinking of when they designed these burger joints. It's amazing. They're works of art. Today, they just put up a box in a strip mall. We've definitely lost something culturally in this country. Have you ever looked at old photos of a ballgame? Check out the crowd. In a certain era, the men wore suits and ties. Hats even. To a ballgame. Go to an airport nowadays and take a look around you. It's the era of reality TV, Dr. Phil, and instant gratification. As my father used to say, "Hooray for me and to hell with everybody else." There were plenty of things that weren't so good about the good old days. But there are some things that were truly great, and that's what I think about when I'm working on my car. When you think of how many of these machines have gone to the scrapyard, we're really lucky to have our cars. Once they're gone, they're gone.

[Young Ed]

Joe there is an old white castle building here in Minneapolis that someone had the forethought to preserve. When he heard they were going to knock it down he paid to have it moved to a new sight and it now houses his jewelry store.

[Bingster]

Arrasmith designed the Washington, DC Greyhound Terminal.

[Joe Flanagan]

Then he would be pleased to know that it no longer is a hangout for hookers and pimps. That's how it was when I first came here. The pimps would be waiting for the out of town buses to come in, looking for girls who needed money and/or shelter. It's a nice building. Even has a tiny exhibit space in the lobby. They've saved all the deco interior, too.

[Frank Elder]

A couple of years ago, probably 5, Omaha took some old ads off a building front and.. there was an original HupMobile dealership, the old floors and everything!

Everyone was amazed then there was a two three day resurgence and all was forgotten once again.

[Don Jordan]

While it is true that our cars take us back in time to a different history and a different culture I get something a little different. When I'm driving down the street and I look at the lines of the hood, the split windshield, the massive steering wheel - I think of my father. That's exactly what he saw. He had a 46 Plymouth and I've wanted one as long as I could remember. You guys are right - it's our way of holding on to a better time when there was pride in workmanship and quality. It seems we are in a kind of disposable society now.

[gnoub1948]

Don, you've got it right. Aside from the nostalgia of driving Dad's car, the hood thing is important! Most new cars don't have a hood unless it's a truck! The longer the better for me!

Gary

[PatS....]

So, it seems the cars are a tangible connection with our past...that's why I have mine, too.

But does that make them historic or does it make them more like souvenirs?

I mean, when we are gone, what will the significance of our old cars be to the current generation?

Will it be that it was Dads, or Grampa's car?

Will it be the style or size?

Will it be as a symbol of baby-boomers excesses? (real or perceived)

Will it only mean something because it may be valuable?

I gave my 46 Fargo to my nephew (29) and it means something to him but for different reasons that I found it appealing. Most of his generation have little interest in owning or rebuilding something that old.

I think cars are a part of our past and a reminder of simpler times.

I really have a hard time seeing them as pieces of history unless the car itself was there, as in the Kennedy Lincoln and the 56 Caddy behind it...those a pieces of history.

My 49 Chrysler was languishing behind a barn because nobody had bothered to scrap it...and it was for sale for quite a while at a low price before I bought it.

If it were historic, it would be, even in the condition it's in, very valuable.

It's not.

As such, I have no problem modifying it as I please to suit my goals for the car.

Governments all over have no problem forcing these vehicles to be crushed, unlike those same governments declaring a building or a district "Historic" and demanding that they not be changed.

Vintage cars and trucks don't get the same respect when in neglected condition.

But even historic buildings can and do get mechanically updated without damaging their historic significance. Old plumbing, wiring and heating isn't nostalgic, it's dangerous.

Sorry to ramble, but, in the big scheme of things, it's really just a car. There are much more important things to be concerned about protecting.

The FREEDOM to modify one's own property being a big one.

[Bingster]

Any material thing depends on us humans to attach meaning or importance to it. An old car - or a new one for that matter - is only a hunk of metal. I think cars are fairly unique in that like fashion, they have come to represent a statement of "modernity" - of where our culture is at stylistically at any given moment in time. Also, cars get used up and discarded. By that time, they are obviously out of style.

Unlike antiques - furniture, etc. - which pretty much stay stable with relation to their physical make-up, cars are no good once they have worn out. At least to the mass population. Most people view an old Plymouth in back of a barn as a piece of junk. I know my mom would have. You and I would get a buzz from what it represents to us and the potential to bring it back to life.

I agree that old cars are only "historic" if they served some important and specific purpose in history. But the barn car is a part of history by its very nature, but so are we. The average person would not want to drive either a barn antique or a fully restored '39 Cadillac for the simple reason that society superimposes too much judgement on what each would represent. The barn car - even if restored to a point - would connotate living behind the times, and the Caddy would imply vast wealth of a sort or putting on airs. And either attracts a lot of attention, the kind that most folks would not feel comfortable with simply because without any personal involvement, these cars are merely tokens from a past age.

But on the other hand, the very fact that cars are more or less "disposable" does freeze their design in a particular era. Our culture stresses the most modern, new and improved. Old cars are hardly that, and so why would the average citizen want an old car? Style is pretty much dictated to us anyway. We take it or leave it. But we can clearly see what is behind the times with regard to design.

I was looking up at an old building here in Iowa with a date marker of 1904 on the front, cast proudly in bronze. That building for all intents and purposes is still fullfilling the same function it was built to serve in 1904. Cars cannot. They either get used up and thrown away or the lucky ones are preserved. People don't seem to care if a building is sixty plus years old. Maybe because it's not theirs personally. But society places a lot of significance on buying new cars - sexy, practical, modern, safety - that our egos I guess are more prone to be involved than with an old building which belongs to the city.

So yeah, it all boils down to what significance we place on an old car on a personal level. Don thinks of his father. He needs no better reason than that. Rodney gets a sense of history through his car. That's great. Whatever it is that makes classic car people love classic cars, that's our own thing. Most people will simply go along with the program cause that's what's given them.

I bought a Chrylser 300 a couple of years ago because I thought it had a rather unique face. I think it's a very well designed car, but from what I recall of my old '53 New Yorker and my neighbor's '53 Packard when I was a kid, new cars don't ride as nice as the old. They might handle better cause they're lighter, but that mass gave the old cars a solid ride. If you took todays Chrysler 300 and built it back in 1947 with exactly the same body design, it would undoubtedly ride better than its contemporary twin. Don't you think so? It wouldn't handle as nicely perhaps, but the ride would be so smooooth!

It's fun to get a little philosophical about these old cars once in awhile. They really are more than mere metal. They contain all the hopes and dreams of their era; all the ideas that people before us put into them. Hey, if they didn't, why buy an old piece of scrap iron and fix it up? Right?