Congratulations Obama - CONGRATULATIONS USA!

[Young Ed]

Here is the one article Norm mentioned

http://www.newsweek.com/id/165648/output/print

and the second. http://www.newsweek.com/id/165642/output/print

I just started reading these but they are good so far

[JoelOkie]

Ed, "I very firmly believe that history will show Bush as a much better president than everyone currently thinks he is."

He probably will be Ed. The American people on political issues have shown time and again how fickle and jaded they can be at any given moment.

I would guess the way he is viewed at this time depends on where you are at personally. I heard all this stuff about " Bush's failed economical policies..." Well I have been self'employed in the construction/remodel business here in Oklahoma since 1976, and I can tell you for sure that we have had the very best economical times we have ever had this past 8 years. It is almost impossible to find help, as everyone that wants to be working already has a job. My business has not had 1 day of not having at least several jobs waiting in line, even through the typical winter slow periods, since just after the country rebounded after the towers were knocked down. The economy under Bush for me personally has been the best I have ever seen, and I wouldn't mind 8 more years of it. Of course I'm not sure if Bush should get all the credit, any more than he should get all the blame where things haven't been as good. I like to think that my personal success has more to do with my experience, craftsmanship, and reputation that I have worked hard to aquire to deem me worthy of being hired to get a job down well. All the opportunity in the world does nothing if you are not willing and capable of making something of it. Sometimes you have to make your own opportunity. I am sure that there are other people in other places that given human nature just as naturally tend to judge everything on how their own personal experience has been, thus for people that didn't do so well the past few years it has no doubt likely been viewed as the result of Bush's failed economic policies. I don't know enough about other regions of the country to say for certain what their particular situations stems from altogether, but I can clearly see where some places the people have regulated, or allowed themselves to be over-regulated, to the point of stifling growth and production. If the answer to their problems is to bring the government in to become even more over-regulated, I wish them luck in making that work. We don't go for it here.

It seems funny for anyone to have been talking about "failed economic policies" when almost every person in this country above the age of 10 is walking around with a cell phone stuck in their pocket, many teenage high school kids have nice, or new cars to drive to and from school, most homes have at least one computer, and so many people have internet service. Kinda reminds me about what Will Rogers said..."We'll hold the distinction of being the only Nation in the history of the world that ever went to the poor house in an automobile...." For it to be so bad, many people have it pretty darn good. I do know for a fact that the horse crap being said about this being the worst economy since the Great Depression glides right across what some of us will readily remember was the term "misery index", when President Carter was in office; inflation, interest, and unemployment were all counted in double digits. Let's hope we don't get back to there.

[dezeldoc]

Here is what I think of the younger kids and how they think, MTV !! Watch that garbage and you will see why we have problems and why people think the way they do.

[48Chrashler]

I was in Europe during the election and watched on the BBC. I found it very interesting that on more than one occasion, they referenced an interview with someone as being from a town that was once a "Civil War Battle"

Gotta love the press irrespective of the country.

All in All I truly missed Tim Russert more than anything. Wonder what he would have said.

[curtiswyant]

Very much agreed. There should be no automatic redistribution of wealth. If they want to be wealthy too they should get a job or a better job. I very firmly believe that history will show Bush as a much better president than everyone currently thinks he is.

That's much easier said than done if you have no savings, no car, family to feed, etc.

The more money someone has, the more they can afford to give back, i.e. pay taxes. Right now we need an influx of money to jump-start the economy and alternative energy projects. Many corporations and oil companies are acting out of pure selfishness and self-preservation; Andrew Carnegie they are not. America was at its best when we had a thriving middle class. Under Bush, the gap between the rich and poor has only grown and the middle class has suffered. I'm not saying it's Bush's fault entirely but his administration has consistently been blind or slow to respond to problems, and the list of mistakes is long (Katrina, Iraq, Guantanimo, bin Laden, budget overspending, etc.)

[Young Ed]

True if you have more you could afford to pay more taxes. But why should you have to? The government shouldn't be an organized charity we are all forced to donate to. Raise taxes too much and you get to the point where its not worth it to bother working.

[JoelOkie]

I'll be curious to see what people that are wanting to see the tax D$% stuck to the big oil companies say the next day after their taxes HAVE been raised and the price goes up at the pump, as the oil companies pass the newest cost increase of doing business along to the consumer. Logically, the people it will affect the hardest is the people that have the least amount of money, and thus have the least ability to absorb the increase without making a major sacrifice in some other area. I am then guessing that the plan to fix that is that the free government money (generated by raising taxes on the greedy oil companies, large corporations, and people operating small business that are making profits above and beyond what they need) in the form of tax credit checks from the wealth being re-distributed to the people that don't pay taxes to begin with will offset all that?? Interesting concept.

[Norm's Coupe]

That's much easier said than done if you have no savings, no car, family to feed, etc.

The more money someone has, the more they can afford to give back, i.e. pay taxes. Right now we need an influx of money to jump-start the economy and alternative energy projects. Many corporations and oil companies are acting out of pure selfishness and self-preservation; Andrew Carnegie they are not. America was at its best when we had a thriving middle class. Under Bush, the gap between the rich and poor has only grown and the middle class has suffered. I'm not saying it's Bush's fault entirely but his administration has consistently been blind or slow to respond to problems, and the list of mistakes is long (Katrina, Iraq, Guantanimo, bin Laden, budget overspending, etc.)

I have to disagree. It's the people who want to charge more taxes on business's that are the one's that are blind sighted by the politicians who want to raise the taxes. The more money taken away in taxes by the government, the less a company has to spend. The less they spend, the less they spend means who they buy from gets less business, etc. That makes all companies making less profits.

Less Profits = Less jobs and smaller pay raises and benfits for those who are working.

More Profits = More jobs and better pay raises and benefits to employees.

Yes, the top dogs at the corporation will also get richer, but so does everyone else down the line if they pay less taxes.

Give those profits to the government and they are swallowed up by building airports where they aren't needed and bridges to nowhere, or a million dollar outhouse in the middle of the mountains where only a hand full of people might use it. And, in the meantime, the poor get poorer because there are less jobs. Luckily the bridge was never built thanks to Palin, but the airport and outhouse was. Airport is in Arkansas with nothing around it because the industrial complex it was supposed to serve was never built. That was some years ago. The outhouse is in the mountains of either Virginia or North Carolina, forgot exactly where. Being on a hiking trail I won't worry about where it is because I'll never use it, as most everyone else won't either.

As for the middle class getting smaller, that's been going on for decades. We hear so much about the middle class getting poorer. However, not mentioned is about is how a lot of the middle class have become millionaires over the last 20 years. That's because they aren't lumped in with the ones who have become poorer. Most of the so called poorer middle class are still making more money today than they did 20 years ago too. It's just that the cost of living has gone up faster than their pay did.

If you want to count poor as those who cannot afford food and their homes. Most of the time it's their own fault for poor management of their resources. They use too much credit to keep up with the Jone's and end up where they have no money due to paying all the interest on their credit cards, etc. That's why they a lot of people are poor. There are even millionaires in that category along with the people making less than minimum wage. Just check back at the big lottery winners. Some of those who won millions have gone broke. There's no reason for that to happen. It's just poor management on their end. Can't blame the government for peoples bad choices. The government is not our parents, and really as adults we shouldn't be relying on our parents anyway. If we do, we'll never get anywhere but further in the hole.

Here in our fair county there was a referendum to force all business's to pay employees sick pay, regardless of the size of the business. Small business a minimum of 5 days and 9 days for larger companies. This includes mom and pop operations with 1 or 2 employees. Many of those cannot afford to pay an employee for 5 days when they aren't working. So.........since it was voted in, many of those small companies will simply move across the county line and that could cause the employee to lose his job because they can't get to the new location outside the county. So, I ask. Who will get hurt because the county government didn't mind it's own business. Certainly not the employer. But.........it made the county government look good because they said we are going to help you get paid the 5 days sick leave. Plus, the county will now lose the taxes those small business's paid.

[greg g]

The Bush administrations were much like GM and Chyrsler. Clinging to an aging reality. Making decisions in a vacuum, and trying to force unwanted product on the market. The immediate results were that his best and wisest advisors left, the long term results your can readily see.

[claybill]

how much do you give to your church? if you dont make very much ...you give your best, tho low. if you make more and have a comfortable income, you give more to your church. most churches ask for a percentage of your earnings.

most people are comfortable with that...why not with your country?

bill

[Don Coatney]

how much do you give to your church? if you dont make very much ...you give your best, tho low. if you make more and have a comfortable income, you give more to your church. most churches ask for a percentage of your earnings.

most people are comfortable with that...why not with your country?

bill

Enough of politics and religion. Kill this thread before it gets ugly.

[TodFitch]

Enough of politics and religion. Kill this thread before it gets ugly.

Hip Hip Hurray! Thank you Don!

[BobT-47P15]

I know we all have our opinions about the event.

Guess we just need to wait and see how things turn out.

[Rodney Bullock]

You guy's have a lot of opinion's, My parents were middle class, we did not have everything. I do know that when tax time came around we bought large or big ticket items. That dissapeared under late 70's administrations.You and I both know that things could not continue the way they were going. My house is worth triple what I paid for it. My salary never increased at the same level as things or items around me, in the 1950's my father was in high school and could buy a "NEW" car while working after school. Who could do that now, no one.

If 98 percent of the wealth is held by 2 percent of the population what do you think should happen. I am talking about true wealth that's people who live off the interest of there mony. If you are not living off the interest of your money this guy is not talking about you. The middle class has been paying for the bulk of the taxes in this country for years, it is because this class is shrinking that there is a problem. Two wars is not a picnic either 10 billion dollars a month in Iraq I don't know how much in Afganistan.

Hey, what do I know I'm just a car guy that listens to public radio and supports it so I can hear a "unbias news report" on what we are doing here and around the world. The reason we are getting "congrats" from places outside the US is because they see and welcome Change. I am tired of being the hated ugly American when I go to different parts of the world, now I don't even travel anymore. I don't know who is at fault for some of this stuff, Yeah I bought a house, yes they made sure I could afford it. My kids are grown now however to me, young people are much smarter now then in my time. I measure this only by my own children as I i'm not preve to others.

Let's give this guy a chance, he is very smart and I think he loves this country very very much. sometims standing on the outside you can see things very clearly and differently.

[Dennis Hemingway]

I'm with Don. LET's get back to our cars and let this die...

Dennis:mad:

[Robin (UK)]

Guys,

Sorry this thread has got so political.

I was simply offering congratulations to a great nation on a momentous day.

Other than that, let's talk cars!!!

[hucks 50]

i hope he speads the wealth ,i need new fenders and a carb.not my cup of tea ,too many unanswered questions.

[Norm's Coupe]

i hope he speads the wealth ,i need new fenders and a carb.not my cup of tea ,too many unanswered questions.

Agreed, and until those fancy words about change, etc. convert to hard specific facts, our checkbook closed as of Nov. 4th except for necessities. Can't plan spending if you don't know how much you are going to have left over to spend.

[Powerhouse]

I have to disagree. It's the people who want to charge more taxes on business's that are the one's that are blind sighted by the politicians who want to raise the taxes. The more money taken away in taxes by the government' date=' the less a company has to spend. The less they spend, the less they spend means who they buy from gets less business, etc. That makes all companies making less profits.

Less Profits = Less jobs and smaller pay raises and benfits for those who are working.

More Profits = More jobs and better pay raises and benefits to employees.

Yes, the top dogs at the corporation will also get richer, but so does everyone else down the line if they pay less taxes.

Give those profits to the government and they are swallowed up by building airports where they aren't needed and bridges to nowhere, or a million dollar outhouse in the middle of the mountains where only a hand full of people might use it. And, in the meantime, the poor get poorer because there are less jobs. Luckily the bridge was never built thanks to Palin, but the airport and outhouse was. Airport is in Arkansas with nothing around it because the industrial complex it was supposed to serve was never built. That was some years ago. The outhouse is in the mountains of either Virginia or North Carolina, forgot exactly where. Being on a hiking trail I won't worry about where it is because I'll never use it, as most everyone else won't either.

As for the middle class getting smaller, that's been going on for decades. We hear so much about the middle class getting poorer. However, not mentioned is about is how a lot of the middle class have become millionaires over the last 20 years. That's because they aren't lumped in with the ones who have become poorer. Most of the so called poorer middle class are still making more money today than they did 20 years ago too. It's just that the cost of living has gone up faster than their pay did.

If you want to count poor as those who cannot afford food and their homes. Most of the time it's their own fault for poor management of their resources. They use too much credit to keep up with the Jone's and end up where they have no money due to paying all the interest on their credit cards, etc. That's why they a lot of people are poor. There are even millionaires in that category along with the people making less than minimum wage. Just check back at the big lottery winners. Some of those who won millions have gone broke. There's no reason for that to happen. It's just poor management on their end. Can't blame the government for peoples bad choices. The government is not our parents, and really as adults we shouldn't be relying on our parents anyway. If we do, we'll never get anywhere but further in the hole.

Here in our fair county there was a referendum to force all business's to pay employees sick pay, regardless of the size of the business. Small business a minimum of 5 days and 9 days for larger companies. This includes mom and pop operations with 1 or 2 employees. Many of those cannot afford to pay an employee for 5 days when they aren't working. So.........since it was voted in, many of those small companies will simply move across the county line and that could cause the employee to lose his job because they can't get to the new location outside the county. So, I ask. Who will get hurt because the county government didn't mind it's own business. Certainly not the employer. But.........it made the county government look good because they said we are going to help you get paid the 5 days sick leave. Plus, the county will now lose the taxes those small business's paid.[/quote']

WOW....you know what your talking about...you must live in the real world. I'm glad to have you as a neighbor.

[maurice wade]

Hum, I wonder if Obama ever rode in a P-15?

[claybill]

i wonder where the billion dollars a week is coming from.??? in this iraq war..

a billion a week for 4 years...!!! what else could we have done with that $$$$..?

i dont notice any hardships like during WWll. when i saved bacon fat and tinfoil. and went with my dad to collect metal in the alleys. and my mom made 100 peanut butter and jellys to take to the troop train every day at 11;15........ this war thing is too easy now. it seems free.. and most of us seem to like it!!??

questions unanswered...?

i know tis forum is about cars...but we all are ALIVE and more complex than any p-15.! its good to hear our views....

bill

[Reg Evans]

"i know tis forum is about cars...but we all are ALIVE and more complex than any p-15.! "

OK...now I'm riled up !!!!! You left out all the D-24's

[Captain Neon]

Actually, I don't think either of the majour parties and the people they elect could really care about us as antique car enthusiasts. We are an easy scapegoat. In all actuality, I am no more vigilant or less so, just because Barack Obama is in the White House, Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House, Joe Biden Senate President, or Harry Reid is Senate Majourity Leader. Until we start electing and supporting representatives that are willing to be a pain in the neck about individual liberties and personal property rights, voting for Republicans or Democrats will not protect our cars from those that wish us ill-will. There is really little to no difference between the majour political parties in these united States.

Until we have elected officials with the courage and wisdom of Davy Crockett and Thomas Jefferson, we are pretty much screwed. The best we can hope for is that we as individuals project a positive image about ourselves and our hobby so that the local government chooses to leave us alone because we are good guys rather than zeroing in on us because we are jerks.

Not Yours to Give http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/greatmen/crockett/crocket2.htm

[Don Coatney]

Once again, Kill this thread. I dont want to make it ugly:mad:

[Tom Skinner]

Don is right cut out this crap!

Tom