likaleica Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 After months of trying, my black 1939 Plymouth Touring Sedan is finally back on the road with (almost) everything working. Picked the car up from the auto electrician yesterday. He's fitted modern 6 volt relays for the headlamps replacing the originals, a new ignition switch and got everything working except the ammeter (needs new unit) I also got him to fit a main fusebox in the system with a 30 amp modern foil-type fuse. The drive home was eventful in the hot weather. Got caught in traffic after a 55 mph stretch on the dual carriageway and the temperature gauge climbed to 212! I pulled over as soon as I could at a fuel stop and after waiting several minutes topped up the radiator. There seems to have been no ill effect. It was another 15 miles home on slower roads and I got back without further trouble. This car is great but it was laid up for almost 15 years - so I must expect these things. I remember on an old car of mine backflushing the radiator....taking off the bottom hoze and removing the header tank pressure cap, then putting a water hoze in the bottom of the radiator and flushing for several minutes. I also seem to remember using a radiator flushing solution that you put in, brought the engine to running temperature, then drained out. I should also check the thermostat is working, too, I guess! Any thoughts from you guys will be gratefully received. Driving tips from members have been very useful - I'm now finding the gate properly with the gearshift and eliminating graunching the gears almost totally. The advice to move the gearlever towards the 2nd gear position before engaging first (or reverse) works a treat. Downshifting from top to 2nd does require a double de-clutch and I'm getting better at it. By the way, at the fuel stop I was surrounded by other drivers admiring the car. They wanted to know all about her, were taking photos and shooting video footage. She is driving the Bride and her father to a local wedding next month and will look mighty fine with her wedding ribbons and flowers on the parcel shelf! I'll post photos. All for now - hope I have't bored the pants off people ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharps40 Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Do the simple stuff first. Check the accuracy of the gage. A bourdon tube or even electric gage at nigh onto 80 years old is likely inaccurate. Get an electric and check it against both a thermometer in the radiator top and an infra red read out on the water neck, etc. Then.......replace gage or go through all the wickets for a slightly hot engine....which include coolant system review and repair, complete ignition tune, check for dragging brakes/slipping clutch, ad infinitum. Could be a simple gage issue. Edited June 27, 2015 by Sharps40 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 putting a water hoze in the bottom of the radiator and flushing for several minutes. The advice to move the gearlever towards the 2nd gear position before engaging first (or reverse) works a treat. Downshifting from top to 2nd does require a double de-clutch and I'm getting better at it. If you google radiater flush you will see a number of kits that will let you backflush your radiater: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prestone-Flush-n-Fill-Radiator-Flush-Cleaning-Kit-for-Most-Cars-and-Trucks-New-/201374715345?hash=item2ee2de4dd1&vxp=mtr I had a 4 speed on a 63 Pontiac Grand Prix that I had to move the gear shift into second when coming from first. The solution was a simple linkage adjustment. Not sure what you have but all I did was make certain that each shifting lever on the trans was in neutral then with the gear shift handle in neautral I adjusted each linkage arm to fit into the transmission shifting lever without pushing or pulling on it. Worked like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 rule of thumb for over heating is, Hot at low speeds/ Idle, air flow problem. hot at speed coolant flow problem. Some folks have found that making and adding a fan shroud for more direct air flow through the radiator helps. My car seldom goes above 170. But Remember even at 212 if you are running a 50/50 mix of coolant /water, you still have about a 20 degree cushion before that mix boils. And an over full system will alway burp out fluid due to expansion so if you keep topping up it will keep burping it out. You might want to find some of the water wetter additive that is made to enhance coolant heat transfer. It is sold in most auto parts stores. My daughter had an old Acura that always ran a bit hot one bottle of that reduced temps by 8 to 10 degrees. Are you running a Thermostat? Is it operating properly? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 You might want to check to see that the heat riser between the intake and exhaust manifolds is operating properly. If it doesn't open completely the engine will run warm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Watson Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 When you flush the cooling system, flush the engine block as well as the radiator. Chrysler used to make a cooling system cleaner that helped clean the crud from the inside of the block and the radiator. Refill with an antifreeze / water mixture. That will help keep the temperatures in control and help prevent corrosion inside your cast-iron engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likaleica Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thanks fellas. In no particular order: Brakes, clutch and transmission handbrake are all properly adjusted so can be ruled out Never considered the gauge might be wrong - will certainly check! Yes there is new 50/50 antifreeze in the system and I never knew that raised the boiling point - thanks for that I will get hold of some of that water wetter - I believe race cars use it so it should be obtainable Have not yet investigated the thermostat but I will I'm not going to pull the water distribution tube just yet - for fear of damaging it - but will check that during winter storage. The manual says the tube should be replaced during engine overhaul - are they available does anyone know? Hoping to tackle this issue in the next week so will let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 both steel and brass tubes are available. Brass won't rust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likaleica Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Back again ! Went to Plymouth this morning and - NO LIGHTS WORKING anywhere on the car in spite of the auto electrician sorting them the other day! He advised checking the on-board 30 amp fuse in the headlight switch - and sure enough it had blown. It's a new switch so I'm rather puzzled. Anyway it's all working now so fingers crossed! I've decided to get a new thermostat anyway - and seen NOS items on eBay in two different types: standard 171 degree opening and lower temperature 155/160 opening. Since I doubt I'll use the car over the really cold winter months, would I be better getting the lower temp version to boost cooling in the hot weather? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 You'll get many varied opinions on the thermostat issue. I personnally run 160° in both my car and truck. The thermostats are also available new you don't have to get NOS. I get mine from Napa but you'd have to find a source over there or order and have it shipped. As for the headlights if you have old wiring or poor connections it can cause that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Bad grounds at the lamps can cause the most obvious problem, dim bulbs, but poor grounds can also lead to extra resistance in a circuit causing the fuse to be over worked. Especially check the ground from the headlamps, on my car they go to a spot on the front wings that get direct bath of road spray from the tires. Once cleaned up and protected with some grease, my headlamps brightened, stayed bright and drew a bit less through the amp gauge. One load you can easily remove from the circuit passing through the switch is to power your brake lamp switch directly instead of through the headlamp switch. Determine which lead powers the brake switch. remove it, tape it off and abandon it in place. Run a new line from the battery side of the starter solenoid, through an in line fuse 20 amp is sufficient, and attach it to the power terminal for the switch. That load is now independently powered and protected and o longer adds to the flow through the headlamp fuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 do not overlook the very fuse holder for corrosion and poor connection due to expansion of the metal during the heating up process where it has failed to contract to original tight fit on cool down..clean and tight..that is the key in controlling thermal runaway..for safety sake and to ensure return of lights later if out and about..you may consider going to the local parts counter of a RV center and getting a pop in circuit breaker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1941Rick Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Water wetter is not acure. If you are over heating you must find the problem. Just because some racers use it does not give it credability. They run alcohol because it runs cooler, do you switch to alcohol.....would guess not. Get your hand on an infared temp probe. 10 to 50 bucks all over the place. Check the head at the temp probe and compare to your gauge, check the thermostat housing on both sides of the thermostat. If you start with a cold engine you can actually see when the thermostat opens. Then to the radiator. check the temps of the core all over the place. you can see the flow of hot water from to to bottom. The temp at the top should not be more than 10 to 15 hotter than the temp at the outlet. If the temp is greater then that, the water is staying in the rad to long, if it is cooler the thermostat is open to long. One thing about flushing rads....you never get the calcium build up out of the cores.even if you take it to a rad shop. If it is plugged it is plugged. Cures in a can do not cure the problem as much as mask them. Until you can say with certaintly this is the problem it is just guess work. You will get all kinds of opinions here but only good old trouble shooting and an understanding of how things works will get results. I have had the same problems on my 41. It is cured, required a new rad......runs 170 all day long in all temp conditions....from parades to desert crossings Good Luck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likaleica Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Once again I'm very thankful for all the expert guidance, fellas ! Lots to get my head around so I'll have a play around and let you know how I get on ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharps40 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Just go one step at a time starting with the simple stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Spyder Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Can anyone with a good cooling system post a vid of how much water is moving by the water pump when the t-stat is open? I drove to a show over the weekend and the gauge pushed 212 at about 55mph. Checked today with a laser thermometer and it reads 173 at the t-stat after 15 minutes at idle and the gauge showed 170. When it opened I could see water moving and the return was at 155. Head temps near the middle of each cylinder ranged from 230 to 210. Just wondering what might be up as just a few weeks ago I did a 100 mile trip and the gauge never went above about 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 This has been mentioned on other threads but is worth repeating here. Is the fan mounted properly? If it's backwards on the water pump pulley it won't pull enough air to cool the radiator properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Can anyone with a good cooling system post a vid of how much water is moving by the water pump when the t-stat is open? I drove to a show over the weekend and the gauge pushed 212 at about 55mph. Checked today with a laser thermometer and it reads 173 at the t-stat after 15 minutes at idle and the gauge showed 170. When it opened I could see water moving and the return was at 155. Head temps near the middle of each cylinder ranged from 230 to 210. Just wondering what might be up as just a few weeks ago I did a 100 mile trip and the gauge never went above about 180. If you can see water moving, and it speeds up when you goose the throttle, the pump is OK. Perhaps a big flake of rust broke loose & is now blocking the water distribution tube. You can look inside the tube if you pull the water pump off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Spyder Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Fan is correct but good idea. I can see the volume of water change with revving of the engine. The water tube could be the issue but it was pulled 2 years ago when I got the car and replaced the radiator. However shouldn't you be able to tell that be checking the head temps? Are the readings I got too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Spyder Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Bttt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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