Engine Runnin Hot Update

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, okay this what I did tonight trying to eliminate things by process.

Pulled waterpump, this unit appears to be in good shape. 1 thing to eliminate

Pulled water distribution tube, it came out with one gentle tug, I have had it out before, it was clean as a whistle 1 thing to eliminate.

Pulled Temp Gauge sender, the hole in the head was clean, fished around in there, all is clean, tested gauge in a pot of hot water against my thermometer, the temp gauge is out about 10 degrees reading 10 too high.Another matter cleared up.

Removed block drain cock, fished around in there, a little bit of crumbs, some which looks like the rad seal stuff I poured in last year. Not sure if I should give the block a green light, but it is not loaded up with crud in the drain cock location.

I did not pop out a freeze plug, as I don't have any, and not sure I want to go in there again yet.

The radiator, water flows out well, but does not rise up like a drinking fountain, takes about 20 to 30 seconds to fully empty, there is a lot of gooey solder bloom like coating on the inside of the top tank and in the outlets, wonder what the cores may be like.

The other day when it was running hot, on my last 2 miles home, I was only going about 35 mph, the temp gauge was not coming down, it was acutally getting a little hotter. When I got home, I let it idle a minute, brought up the rpm, it did not bring down my temp.

Another thing that happend late winter, was driving the car on a -2 day, I decided to put a piece of cardboard in front of the rad, wiht a big 8 x 8 inch hole cut out in the center, the temp gauge shot up to 205 on the highway in a couple of miles, I was doing about 55 mph, I pulled over removed the cardboard, within a mile my temp dropped to 170. This leads me to believe, I had a heat transfer problem. Not sure if this is an issue, I am going to take the rad into a shop in Winnipeg, that has been around a long time for a 2nd opinion.

Well thats my update, I still need to set my timing, to rule that out also. Thanx you guys for your help and patience............Fred

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, phoned the oldest amost reputable rad shop in town. The owner says he can't rod a honeycomb rad, I thought this could be done.

They also don't have a hot tank anymore, asked about re-coring, not a staright answer was given, he said depends on the shape of the tanks etc, making it sound like a big deal. He suggested I buy rad and block flush and run it through the system, I like Lou Earles dishawasher soao idea better.

I did another flow test, the rad emptied in just over 10 seconds, then a couple more to finish up, so about 12 seconds or so, completely emptied, so that is good flow. But there is sticky good inside, greasy sticky like, cores must be coated too..........back to the drawing board

[p10plymouth]

As far as I can remember if you go up a steep hill or (and ) a long stretch and going 50 and above and it runs hot its radiator.. if you drive it in town 15-35 mph no problems and it does not over heat.. you found your problem .... Rad.) What I would do is drive it till it gets hot, then when it gets hot .. turn your heater valve on and put the fan on full blast see if the temp goes down... that also will tell you if the collant is not getting much help from the rad....

[mchev150]

There is a guy on the HAMB that has a radiator for sale, not sure if it will fit your ride.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259664

also has a spitfire engine and trans

[Lou Earle]

I am still betting on the driver's side rear of the head being clogged up.

You might want to try an remove the heater inlet on the head on the other side and stick a wire down the hole to the other r side and see what u got before removing the plug. I have had 2 I swore wee clean badly clogged right there

Lou

[55 Fargo]

Lou and others, therew is no crud or build up in the rear drivers side of the head, ran a probe in there and nothing, in either hole the heater hole or the tempgauge hole.

I did probe into the wtaer jacket, drivers side front of the engine, there is a little stcky greasy type crud in the bottm in this area.

I have had 3 freeze plugs out before, do I need to do this again, or might the disahwasher soap work in cleaning this crap out.

[40phil41]

Lou and others, therew is no crud or build up in the rear drivers side of the head, ran a probe in there and nothing, in either hole the heater hole or the tempgauge hole.

I did probe into the wtaer jacket, drivers side front of the engine, there is a little stcky greasy type crud in the bottm in this area.

I have had 3 freeze plugs out before, do I need to do this again, or might the disahwasher soap work in cleaning this crap out.

Fred,

Are you sure you didn't just over-grease the water pump seal? FWIW, personally I wouldn't worry about taking the plugs out again.

Phil

[55 Fargo]

Hi Phil, just got off the phone with the owner of a big repair shop, he figures it is hopeless to rty and cure this problem with out the engine being tanked, maybe he's right.

He also suggested running vinegar and water through the system, then rinsing a few times, not sure I like that idea.

I am getting ffffffffiiiiiiiinnnnnn fed up with this project, might just toss it soon........Fred

[40phil41]

Fred,

Don't give up now!!! There has to be an answer and I personally don't think a complete engine tear-down and hot tanking is the answer. As suggested by others, have you put a timing light on it to verify that aspect? Note that the engine should be at operating temp. (I know, you are seeing red with that staement) and at idle speed (in my case it is 450 r.p.m.) and vacuum line disconnected.

Phil

[RobertKB]

Fred, you do not need to tank your engine. What you have done is great. My '53 Plymouth has 95,000 miles on it and all I have done is drain it and replace anti-freeze occasionally and I have checked the water distribution tube. It runs fine and may get a bit hot in the summer but nothing serious. Unless you can tell us that you have checked your timing and it is definitely 2-3 BTDC, a lot of us think it is that. My other two flatties run quite cool also, the '38 Chrysler especially. My '48 does tend to get too warm on a hot day but I know the radiator is tired out and needs recoring. Your radiator also sounds like it could be the problem. Do these two steps and I believe your heating problem will be history:

1. Time it to 2-3 BTDC and if this does not help

2. Have your radiator recored. (I believe the one you have is not original so this may be the time to hunt up the right one also)

[Dodgeb4ya]

Feel the radiator core all over as the engine warms up. There should be no cool areas on the radiator core as soon as the thermostat opens up. I think your radiator is probably pugged not the block-not timing either .

Bob

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would suspect the tank when last dipped was not fully flushed, combined with stop leak and there may be goo everywhere..and second...vinegar DISOLVES cast iron..not a recommend derust or cleaning agent for the block..

Do the Louman trick..he seems to get his flowing no prob with the Electro-sol...sure take that over acid...of any kind unless you have a neutralizing agent..even then..as the acid went in first...it gets absorbed into a pocket of crud..now you got an active crud ball at work...

[Normspeed]

Fred, that timing really is important. Well worth the purchase of an inexpensive timing light. I use a 12 volt light on my 6 volt car, I just hook the battery clips to any 12 volt battery, and the pickup to the #1 plug wire. Can't go wrong with 2 or 3 degrees BTDC.

Why not do the rad cleanout with whatever cleaner you choose, just to put that oily gunk issue to rest.

I would change out the inaccurate temp guage with a more accurate unit, just for the peace of mind.

Last, the auto stores in this area do sell an additive that goes in with your coolant that is supposed to shave a few degrees off your running temp.

Good luck, don't give up on the old ride, she's a beauty.

[Merle Coggins]

You said that when you tested your gauge that it reads 10 degrees high. So if you are worried about it running up to around 205 degrees, then you are really at 195. So I don't see a problem. It's quite possible for the engine to run up around there if it's working hard.

The gunk you see may be residue from the sealant you used. I say reassemble it, fill 'er up with good coolant, and drive the wheels off it.

[greg g]

Did you calibrate the good thermometer by placing it ice water??? Your thermometer may also have a descrepency. make an ice bath with about 5 or 4 ice cubes in a bowl with just enough water to cover them and then check your checking thermometer.

Whatugonna do when you catch your tail????? You have as noted a 10 degree cushion.

[55 Fargo]

Tim, I am going to try the Lou Earle method, 1 cup, of electrosol, plain water, run for how long???. The I would imagine drain and refill with clean water run, then drain, then add coolant, is this sounding right.

I used a little dishwasher soap on my greasy hands, man did they come clean real easy like....................Fred

[55 Fargo]

I have tried that test, also at 140 degrees, at 180 degrees and boiling. The temp gauge in the car will read 170 for actual 160, not sure if that gap widens or lessens after that. The other day when the temp gauge read 205, it was reading between 195 and 200 in the top of the rad,. It was only 70 that day, I only drove about 4 or 5 miles at highway speed for this to happen, I also drove for 10 to 15 minutes in town just before, the temp was at 180 on gauge, which is 170, that is where I would like to keep it, between 165 and 180............Fred

[Dodgeb4ya]

Buy a Infrared scanner-test the engine and rad accurately! Cooling system sealers do just that- seal EVERTHING up! Plug radiators, leave oily goo. Over greasing the WP will leave goo in the system too. Pull the rad and have a shop professionally test it.

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, thanx for all the great advise and thoughtful insight to my chronic summer heat issue.

Tonight I reinstalled the rad, I had installed the waterpump early today, hooked up all the hoses, and filled the rad and block with clean rainwater.

Started the engine, no leaks, good flow across the top of the rad, once the t/stat opened, no bubbles in the rad, so don't think a head gasket is my problem, but who knows.

I let the system warm up, I then drained the water out, it was very clean out of the rad, although I did see some rust scale, a bit in the top of the rad, when the engine was running.

The block drained fine, it was clean water coming out, slow though, but the petcock is quite small, a steady stream of water came out till she emptied.

I want try the dishwasher soap run tomorrow, that may loosen up and scrub the gooey and greasy carap out the system.

Dodgeb4ya, not to be a smart allec, but I can tewll the flow is a little off on the rad,most shops , will only want to re-core, some may attempt to clean it.

I am alittle ticked off with the rad shops around , as they have no time for old stuff it seems, unless you want to spend $400 for a re-core job.

One thing about the rad, I have flow tested it and flushed a number of times in 2 days, but there is always a little water it seems stuck inside that never comes out, you can hear it when you shake the rad, is that indicative of plugging............Fred

[Normspeed]

Hey Fred, will it pour out if you turn the rad over?

[55 Fargo]

A little, but some is staying in the rad, I would say a very small amount, but I can hear it.

[Normspeed]

Sure wish I could offer more thoughts. My 53 ran hotter before the rebuild, and once it really boiled over pulling the teardrop up a small mountain. Now it runs very cool. But, I did the hot tank and rebuild, new water pump, new thermostat, and I swapped in a freshly recored radiator all at one time, so who knows which one solved the running hot?

I got the rad on ebay for $125.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Fred,

You said you put radiator sealer in the car? The radiator was leaking and thats why sealer was put in? Some sealers are just too good and will seal/plug a radiator or heatercore because they intially don`t flow fast enough through the cores. I know rad shops don`t like old stuff to work on anymore-not quick/clean profits. Call most any rad shop and tell them what could/will happen if you put cooling system stop leak after market sealer in your car and I`ll bet they start laughing- it will stop the leak ok and more! You will get to the cause of your problem and you will get it fixed ! Don`t give up!

Bob

[55 Fargo]

Hi the rad wasn't leaking, it was a rear freeze plug, I have since replaced the plug, I used GM Delco seal tabs, they are apprently used in some of GM s engine right from the factory, see thats whats wrong with GM engines..........................LOL

[Don Coatney]

The more I read on this subject the more I DONT think there is a problem. A five mile run is not a good test. A 50 mile run would be better. Set your timing to no more than two degrees advance at idle and go drive it.

It is normal for my car to have temperature swings between city and highway driving. And when I turn my engine off after a long drive the temperature gauge shoots up to over 212 degrees. But my car never boils over. As soon as I start my engine up when the gauge is reading 212 or higher the gauge drops back down to under 200 and as soon as I start moving the gauge drops to 180 or less even when the ambient temperature is 95 or higher.