T Hancock Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) I have a question. I own a 1936 Dodge D2. This car was gone through an extensive ground up frame off nut and bolt restoration five tears ago. During the previous ownership he would trailer it to events rather than drive it. I bought it last year and have driven it since I have owned it. One day I noticed that the brake pedal was a bit stiff and when I applied more pressure it seemed to release and then it would pull left. I thought that was odd. I pulled the front driver wheel and drum to check the pads with the brake pad tool for even distance and it was fine. Headed over to the pass side and the front shoe was tight up against the tool while the back shoe was about a sixteenth of an inch away from the tool. I could not get the front shoe to depress in any further into the wheel cylinder either. Oh I for got to mention that I noticed that the pass side prior to me driving it and getting that reaction from the pedal I previously mention, I noticed that the pass front was hanging up. Not sure if this would be caused by contaminated fluid causing an issue with the retraction of the wheel cylinder or possible brake hose collapse. Your guys input would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Edited August 12 by HMH Autosport dispelled word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 What type of brake fluid are you using, Dot3,4 or dot 5. Dot 3/4 can draw water moisture inthe to the brake lines and master cylinder and wheel cylinders. Since the car was restored five years ago and might not have been driven it could be a contaminated wheel cylinder. I would pull the front drum remove the shoes. Do not adjust the lower eccentrics, Remove the cups and pistons and check to see if any crap in the wheel cylinder. Remember that you have step cylinders. Do a lite hone on the cylinder and clen each piston. Reassemble the brakes and bleed the wheel cylinders check to see if the shoe retrack and move in and out. Might just get a spare rubber brake hose and could also change at the same time when doing the brake repair. Either which way you have to take the system apart. Brakes are so important and you can not afford to have any issues. Rich Hartung with a 1939 Desoto desoto1939@aol.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Hancock Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 Thanks, that was the approach I was going to take. It helps for some confirmation. I see that you asked about brake fluid, I have no idea what is in there. I'm assuming just to be sure I should just flush the entire system and placed Dot 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) Wonky brakes on a buggy have me leaning toward recommending a teardown inspection and cleaning because it sure sounds like a brake fluid contamination issue that may require replacement of all rubber components...these things have a tendency to snowball 👀 Edited August 12 by JBNeal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDeSoto Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Pretty sure you should only use Dot 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Can you contact the previous owner to see what fluid he used in the brakes. Dot 3- 4 -5 ?? Some intermix and some do not. DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 4 hours ago, T Hancock said: Thanks, that was the approach I was going to take. It helps for some confirmation. I see that you asked about brake fluid, I have no idea what is in there. I'm assuming just to be sure I should just flush the entire system and placed Dot 5? If you go to DOT 5 then you will need to flush the entire braking system,Master Cylinder and each wheel cylinder with Denatured Alcohol. You will then need to replace all of the rubber brake hoses with new hoses that can use DOT 5, also the inner wheel cylinder cups and the outer boots. The entire system MUST be Clear of the old brake fluid, again it must be clean of all existing brake fluid. I have used DOT 5 for over 35 years in my 1939 desoto, some owners do like it other do not. Also if you go to Dot 5 brake fluid there is a new brake fluid labeled as Dot 5.1. Dot 5 and DOT 5.1 can not be mixed together. Keep us up to date on what you find and also call the prior owner to see if they know what brake fluid they used. Rich hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 (edited) Is there a way to tell what type of brake fluid is in a system? I replaced the master cylinder and either replaces or rebuilt all of the wheel cylinders back in 80-81, then left the car in storage until recently. (I know I replaced some of them, but not sure if maybe some were still rebuildable.) The mention here about Dot 5 causing the rubber parts to deteriorate makes me wonder if I used Dot 5, and the NOS parts I used were most likely not compatible. Now the rubber boot on the master cylinder was completely dried up, and crumbled when I touched it. An internet search tells me that Dot 5 entered the market in the late 70's. I expect that I will need to go through all of that anyway, after leaving it set that long, but everything was new, and I dread finding rust in there.... Edited August 13 by Eneto-55 typing error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 (edited) Dot 5 will not cause rubber to deteriorate. Dot 5 is silcone brake fluid and does not draw water into the brake system and line, also dot 5 will not eat your paint like the Dot3,4 and 5.1 fluids. Yes the rubber boot on the MC may have dried out because of non use or heat and just because of age. If you have left the car i storage from 1980 then I would suggest that you go over the car and check the braking system, antifreese properties, carburation and the entire car. So basically your car has not been driven for over 40+ years. The gas tank may be clogged, the brakes might even be stuck, all kinds of potential issues. The hoses would need to be replaced so you are basically starting a new restoration on the car. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Edited August 13 by desoto1939 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 (edited) 4 hours ago, desoto1939 said: 22 hours ago, desoto1939 said: If you go to DOT 5 then you will need to flush the entire braking system,Master Cylinder and each wheel cylinder with Denatured Alcohol. You will then need to replace all of the rubber brake hoses with new hoses that can use DOT 5, also the inner wheel cylinder cups and the outer boots. .... Rich hartung desoto1939@aol.com You were actually responding to someone else, but I misunderstood what you said in your previous statement above. I thought you were saying that original rubber parts would not be compatible with DOT 5, which from what I could tell in an on-line search, was already being produced at the time I did the work, in 1980. The parts I used were already 'old stock' back then, when I did all of that work on the car. EDIT: I see that I messed up the quote time stamp markers on this post. I was trying to respond to both this and your later comment in a single post. I do that all of the time on another forum, but the syntax is different on this forum software. Edited August 13 by Eneto-55 additional comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 4 hours ago, desoto1939 said: Dot 5 will not cause rubber to deteriorate. Dot 5 is silcone brake fluid and does not draw water into the brake system and line, also dot 5 will not eat your paint like the Dot3,4 and 5.1 fluids. Yes the rubber boot on the MC may have dried out because of non use or heat and just because of age. If you have left the car i storage from 1980 then I would suggest that you go over the car and check the braking system, antifreese properties, carburation and the entire car. So basically your car has not been driven for over 40+ years. The gas taken may be clogged, the brakes might even be stuck all kinds of potential issues. The hoses would need to be replaced so you are basically starting a new restoration on the car. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Other rubber parts are fine. For instance, I used one of the old brake cylinder boots (that I didn't reuse for its intended purpose) as a grease boot on the clutch torque tube. That rubber is older than the master cylinder boot, because the entire MC was 'new' (NOS), and this other boot was on the car when I bought it, on one of the brake cylinders that was pitted so bad I couldn't hone it out. (I also know now that grease & oil can cause certain types of rubber to deteriorate as well, but I didn't know that then.) As concerns some of the other possible issues you mentioned here (Thanks, by the way), the gasoline tank was cleaned out and repaired, and has not had fuel in it since. Maybe rusted now. The carburetor was off of the car, and was apparently stolen when my Dad's shop was broken into, possibly more than once, because when we cleaned out my Dad's shop, it didn't turn up. The engine has not been started since the over-haul, just turned over by hand every 3 years or so, when we would make a visit back from Brazil. I stopped doing this around 10 years ago, because I figured that the cylinder walls would be dry by now. (It had new pistons, rings, valve seats, rod bearings, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Hancock Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 Thank you all for sharing your knowledge on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan_B Posted August 27 Report Share Posted August 27 On 8/13/2024 at 4:50 AM, Eneto-55 said: Is there a way to tell what type of brake fluid is in a system? Unless you are a chemist, you can probably just tell apart the castor\glycol\silicone-based fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted August 27 Report Share Posted August 27 Like Rich said (DeSoto1939), Rebuild your brakes re-bleed them. Put in DOT 3 or whatever you desire. Then and only then will you know what you have and then and only then will they work properly. Or just whip out your check book and let some one else do it for you - if they even know what they are doing. Good Luck Tom PS maybe if you took your drum off and looked inside for yourself you could see why your brake pulls to one side. I bleed my brakes every other year to keep them working well, and inspect the wheel cylinders for leaks. Yes at 67 it's not as fun as it used to be but you know what your driving - or not driving is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted August 27 Report Share Posted August 27 A brake shoe(s) that is contaminated with brake fluid won’t bite. For example, say the one on the front right is contaminated. The front left brake is fine. The front left will brake normally as you apply the pedal. The RH side will not. This will cause the vehicle to pull in the direction toward the brake that works. Good brake shoes with lots of material, are easily spoiled by leaking pistons. I heard a rumour: Soaking the spoiled brake shoes in gasoline then lighting them on fire will remove the brake fluid. I have not tried this. Anyone have a report on this? Or is this basically a death wish, when you have a single reservoir master cylinder? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 On 8/27/2024 at 7:40 PM, Tom Skinner said: Yes at 67 it's not as fun as it used to be Wait until you get to be 71, it's even less fun. Ya know it not getting down to do the job that is the problem. It's getting up! 😣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 Babies. Try adjusting valves when you're 82. The things I have done, when I was so young. Maybe that's why feel so old. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan_B Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 (edited) Sorry for the off-topic, but doesn't any of your fellas have grand kids to recruit for your automotive maintenance needs? 😅 My grandpa used to do this, when he became a bit outdated to climb underneath the car, but was still occasionally driving. On 8/28/2024 at 12:26 AM, keithb7 said: Anyone have a report on this? Or is this basically a death wish, when you have a single reservoir master cylinder? Sounds rather extreme. I would just attempt to clean them off with carb cleaner Edited August 30 by Ivan_B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denmopar Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 May I suggest....If there is a desire to switch to DOT 5 fluid after a brake hydraulics rebuild (especially a partial one,)- flush the system with de-natured alcohol. This will remove any traces of moisture and wash out any traces of DOT 3 (hydrocarbon,) brake fluid. Then flush through the DOT 5. This has worked for me on a '54 Buick, a '50 Pontiac, a '61 Chevy and lastly, a '54 Plymouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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