3 speed transmission to bellhousing bolt pattern

[lostviking]

Does anyone have the bolt pattern for where the transmission bolts to the bellhousing? I'm drafting an adapter plate for another type transmission. Thanks.

[greg g]

You should be able to find the gasket that goes between the transaction bellhousing this would give you the bolt arrangement and dimensions. The other variable is the input bearing retainer diameter as I believe three different ones were used.  My spare trans is stored under a vehicle and not available with snow equipment needing to be moved as well as other items to access it.

 

There are several pictures of the gasket on e bay sites.  Maybe you could fiddle with enlarging the pics till you got a correct sized one.

Edited January 4 by greg g

[Los_Control]

I was out looking at my truck earlier since I have the toe boards out ..... pretty tough to measure.

Might be easier from underneath, I do have it on jack stands and need to change the trans/rear end oil ... can check it out then ..... tomorrow when not raining.

 

Just curious when or if they did change the bolt pattern on the 3 speed transmissions?

I think around 1935-36 they changed the starter/flywheel some, which changed the bell housing ..... I assume the actual transmission bolt patterns stayed the same?

Just thinking your 46 and my 49 transmissions would interchange.

 

I do have a 1970 318/3 speed in the garage. I pulled the trans off of it and easy to measure .... but I bet they may have changed something by then.

[lostviking]

2 hours ago, greg g said:

You should be able to find the gasket that goes between the transaction bellhousing this would give you the bolt arrangement and dimensions. The other variable is the input bearing retainer diameter as I believe three different ones were used.  My spare trans is stored under a vehicle and not available with snow equipment needing to be moved as well as other items to access it.

 

There are several pictures of the gasket on e bay sites.  Maybe you could fiddle with enlarging the pics till you got a correct sized one.

Without any reference dimension, it would be useless to try and scale a image.

[lostviking]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

I was out looking at my truck earlier since I have the toe boards out ..... pretty tough to measure.

Might be easier from underneath, I do have it on jack stands and need to change the trans/rear end oil ... can check it out then ..... tomorrow when not raining.

 

Just curious when or if they did change the bolt pattern on the 3 speed transmissions?

I think around 1935-36 they changed the starter/flywheel some, which changed the bell housing ..... I assume the actual transmission bolt patterns stayed the same?

Just thinking your 46 and my 49 transmissions would interchange.

 

I do have a 1970 318/3 speed in the garage. I pulled the trans off of it and easy to measure .... but I bet they may have changed something by then.

Yes, the V8 transmission is different. The only place to get the adapter I want only made them once that I know of, and they aren't obtainable right now. I might ask for the dims from them, since they aren't making them, maybe that wouldn't be an issue. I'll have to contact him directly since he no longer comes to this forum due to certain people who just can't shut the F up sometimes I love it when we lose the kind of experts this man represents, because of someone who has zero cred arguing them off the forum.

 

There are really two persons who are the gods of Mopar flatheads. I wish the one who used to participate here still did.

 

I was hoping someone had a transmission or bell laying around. Didn't want anyone to go over the top to get me this. Thank you for offering, and I'll take it if you do go that far.

[Los_Control]

2 hours ago, lostviking said:

I was hoping someone had a transmission or bell laying around. Didn't want anyone to go over the top to get me this. Thank you for offering, and I'll take it if you do go that far.

Really is no issue to go out to the garage, turn the heat on then drink a cold one and then lay on the creeper to scoot under the truck.

 

I got 4 1/2" from center to center top to bottom on either side.

 

Side to side on the bottom looks like 6 1/2" but is a real sketchy eye ball measurement. .... The belly of the trans is in the way and have to hold the tape below kinda guessing ....

The side to side on the top is unobtainable while installed .... too much crap in the way and can not see the bolt in upper right corner.  (linkage from column shift)

 

It is narrower at the top then the bottom by at least 1" ...... I'm already guessing at the measurement for the bottom ...... I'm no help  

 

 

 

[Jerry Roberts]

Here are diagrams that I made several years ago when I was looking for an overdrive . These diagrams are for a three speed that would fit the 1939 - 1947 trucks . 

[lostviking]

Los, anyone that tries to help is helping in my book. Thank you.

 

Jerry, is the bearing retainer centered top to bottom and side to side in that drawing? That was exactly what I needed. The bearing retainer on the new trans is larger, but that locates the four bellhousing bolts for me. Thank you!

[Jerry Roberts]

7 hours ago, lostviking said:

.

 

Jerry, is the bearing retainer centered top to bottom and side to side in that drawing? 

The bearing retainer is centered side to side . Top to bottom ? , I don't know . That is a dimension that I didn't note . 

[lostviking]

Thank you. I'm designing an adapter plate to mount the A833 overdrive transmission to my bellhousing. AoK had one, but that was many moons ago. IMHO, it's a much better choice than a T5 and keeps things Mopar. Some people don't care about that, but it's important to me.

 

Thanks again.

[Jerry Roberts]

For those who don't know ;  The 3 speed trans have a different bolt pattern than the 4 speed trans , 1939 - 1947 .

[Jerry Roberts]

2 hours ago, lostviking said:

Thank you. I'm designing an adapter plate to mount the A833 overdrive transmission to my bellhousing. AoK had one, but that was many moons ago. IMHO, it's a much better choice than a T5 and keeps things Mopar. Some people don't care about that, but it's important to me.

 

Thanks again.

lostviking ,  There was a thread on the car side of the forum ( not recent ) where a member put a more modern mopar overdrive trans in his car . It might have been the A833 . If you can find that thread , you might be able to glean some tidbits of information there . 

[Young Ed]

I would think the best way to really go forward is to source an extra bellhousing. Not sure how hard that is where you are but then you could do all the mockup on the bench and keep your truck whole until ready. 

For my T5 there really isn't an adapter I just drilled 4 new holes in the existing housing. Not sure if that same method could be used for the 833

[kencombs]

11 hours ago, lostviking said:

Thank you. I'm designing an adapter plate to mount the A833 overdrive transmission to my bellhousing. AoK had one, but that was many moons ago. IMHO, it's a much better choice than a T5 and keeps things Mopar. Some people don't care about that, but it's important to me.

 

Thanks again.

I'm also using an A833OD in my 56.   But, with a 60 truck clutch housing.   The machined face of that is almost big enough to drill and tap with no adapter.  Just some welding over the top 2 as they were too close to the edge for my liking.   The plug some holes, weld up a small area that was too low and redrill for the others.   The center hole is a perfect match to the A833OD so hole location was easy.  I just set the trans on the housing, made up a center punch that is a snug fit in the trans holes and marked them.   Drilled and tapped on my drill press.  It also has the frame crossmember and mounts for a 60.

 

It's all bolted together, sitting and waiting for me to paint the firewall and start putting it back together.

 

I did it that way because that housing also fits early hemis and polys.   A V8 upgrade, if desired, will be easy.

[lostviking]

I don't know for sure whether the clutch housing in my truck is a 46, or came with the 58 D100 engine that is in it. I had the original engine and it had a housing on it. I gave all that to another member here. I'll have to see if there is enough exposed housing to get an idea how much material is around the trans mating surface. I've only just found that there were several even after the starter position change. Go figure. I understand there is more than one input shaft, and they have different lengths.

 

When AoK was selling the adapter plates, you used a specific trans and the thickness of the adapter went into all that. What trans are you using Ken that bolts up the the clutch housing face?

 

Is the 60 housing different than late 50's?

 

None of this is going to happen quickly. I'm an engineer, so things like this are fun for me and I like to model/draft as much as I can before I ever get started in the physical world.

 

Right now, my truck is running fine and the compression isn't bad. Not brand new, but OK for now and the oil pressure is good. I'm just going to drive it for now. I need to save money.

 

But, I do want to rebuild the engine. I've been looking into a machine shop in San Diego to do the block and crank. All part of the planning stage.

I plan on cross drilling the crank and having the bearings grooved to improve oiling to the spots that weren't great from the factory. I do like to over build the bottom end of my engines, so this will get done. The engine will be built to reliably go to 5000RPM over and over, even if I never do that.

 

I have the Langdon (Fenton copy) manifolds. I'm going to build my own dual carb intake, a copy of the AoK intake...since I can't buy one of those anymore and the Offy one I have is basically crap. I'm going to have my cam reground using one of the profiles Tim Kingsbury shared. Not too aggressive, but an upgrade. The 58 motor already has higher compression, so I'm not going to take anything out of the block or head. Can't afford forged piston, so cast is fine, especially at the relatively low RPM of these engines. With those exceptions, it will pretty much be a stock build

 

It should last as long as I do, and make enough power to get out of peoples way. I'm going to change from 3.55 to 3.73 gears, with the OD trans I think that's a better place to be. I want to upgrade to a posi carrier and the larger 97 and up axles anyway in my Jeep rear end.

 

After all that, it's just cosmetics and enjoying my truck.

[kencombs]

12 hours ago, lostviking said:

I don't know for sure whether the clutch housing in my truck is a 46, or came with the 58 D100 engine that is in it. I had the original engine and it had a housing on it. I gave all that to another member here. I'll have to see if there is enough exposed housing to get an idea how much material is around the trans mating surface. I've only just found that there were several even after the starter position change. Go figure. I understand there is more than one input shaft, and they have different lengths.

 

When AoK was selling the adapter plates, you used a specific trans and the thickness of the adapter went into all that. What trans are you using Ken that bolts up the the clutch housing face?

 

Is the 60 housing different than late 50's?

 

N

 

The 60 is much different than earlier models but the change may have occurred in 58 or 9.   It uses different mounts, hyd clutch on the passenger side, rear mounting face has 3 different bolt patterns to fit the transmissions offered and the pilot hole for the front bearing retainer is much bigger than the early models.   That last is important to me, as it is a perfect fit for the A833OD and centers it to allow me to drill ant tap in the right place to attach it.   But in a one or two places the old holes overlapped where.  the new ones needed to go.  So, the old ones got plugged with a cut off bolt with red loctite then the new one was drilled partially in the plug and partially in the cast housing. 

 

Since it used different mounts I adapted the 60 crossmember also.   One of the reasons for all this is to allow for a V8 swap later if needed and I wanted suspended clutch and brake pedals, thus the hydraulic part.   I have those parts from the 60 cab installed also.   Original clutch slave cylinder, later disk/drum master for a Dodge pickup.

 

Edit to add a pic.  This the Tran sitting on the unmodified housing.   You can see where I had to and weld for new holes I have more pics but working on resizing.  
2 more during rework

Edited January 9 by kencombs
Add pics

[lostviking]

That's a great solution. Not everyone can do it though, so I'm going to finish and then publish here the drawings for the adapter plate. Not trying to make anything off it, just want one for me, and once it's drafted...why not share?

 

Like all my projects, this will move at the speed of a married man.

Edited January 13 by lostviking

[Eneto-55]

I HAD an extra bell-housing, from my 49 P15, but someone stole it while it was stored in the trunk, with the car outside, at my Dad's place.  Anyway, what I was thinking would be to lay a heavy sheet of paper over the bell housing, then do a rubbing with a carpenter's pencil, to get a drawing of the layout.  You could do the same for the transmission you want to use.  But maybe I'm not understanding the question.

[lostviking]

I have the transmission side. What I don't have is the bell side without pulling my transmission.

[QEC]

Do you have the bellhousing casting number? Someone may have the same bell under their bench.

[lostviking]

Great idea. I'll check.

[Eneto-55]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:57 PM, lostviking said:

I have the transmission side. What I don't have is the bell side without pulling my transmission.

Unfortunately I don't have an extra transmission either.  (The parts car came out of a salvage, and the trannie was already gone when I bought the car.)

[lostviking]

This is what I've got. I used flathead bolts to create "studs for the transmission, and flathead bolts to mate the adapter plate to the bell housing. I have neither an A833 nor a loose bell housing to verify all of these measurements. I appreciate the help everyone has given in getting them, but use with a huge amount of salt please. If anyone does have the parts to verify these dimensions, please do and then chime in.

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by lostviking

[QEC]

Just curious...how does this 'adapter' maintain registration to the bellhousing?

[lostviking]

It is bolted to the original bolt holes. On the tran side, the center hole matches the correct A833 bearing retainer. There are different sizes, so this only works on the one that I picked. Simple change for anyone who chooses a different one. The rest is the same. It's not a final design because I need to look at the outline. Don't have anything to look at right now, and I'm having $5K in dental done, so I'm distracted.