Gauge cluster questions

[rcl700]

So got brave and pulled the guage cluster out of my 48'. I want to clean the glass. Need to work on the speedo too. It's really gummed up when I pulled the cable out. 

How do I get to the back side of the glass? 

I see some crimps around the housing. Do I bend these out to separate the housing? 

[Eneto-55]

I did that on mine, but I don't think I had to actually bend open those crimps - I think I could just pry it open with a small flat screw driver.  Just don't remember.  (Still have mine apart, too.  One of the numbered wheels on the odometer has a spot where the paint was flaked off , and I swapped them around to make that one come up only after a long time.  Was also thinking of putting small turn signal indicator lights into the face of the speedometer, but haven't decided for sure yet.  Want to repaint the inside, as well, and need to make new gaskets.)

 

There are some photos here on the site someplace where Don Coatney did repair work on his.  I also have taken photos of mine, but maybe those are not on this computer - cannot find them right now.

[rcl700]

So did you remove all guages first then ply the case apart? 

what are you planning to use for gasket material? 

[Ivan_B]

Just straighten-out the crimps with flat pliers. The frame holding the glass should come off.

[Eneto-55]

Like you, I already had the temp gauge out.  I removed the others, as well as the speedometer.  Then, seeing the poor condition of the gaskets, and wanting to repaint the inside of the instrument cluster case, I decided to pull it apart.  I think I had already seen Don Coatney's photos before that.  I haven't searched for them on the site, but it's possible that his photos are no longer there.  (He had his photos hosted elsewhere, and just linked to them here.  I don't know if you've read much of his comments on the forum, but he passed away already some years ago, and then those links were lost.  If his photos are not available anymore, I do have copies.  At some point I realized that many of the things I thought would always be available, as long as the internet lasts have disappeared - entire websites, while the real trash on the internet seems to survive forever.  So I started making copies.)  I'll see if I can find my own photos - I suspect now they are on another older computer I have here.

 

The most complicated gasket was originally cork, and I have some sheets of that. I have done business with a company that has a laser, and I want to have them do a test, to see if they can cut cork w/o it burning.  The gasket between the front bezel and the glass is some sort of heavy cardboard (not corrugated cardboard, more like heavy card stock.)

[Sniper]

2 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

Like you, I already had the temp gauge out.  I removed the others, as well as the speedometer.  Then, seeing the poor condition of the gaskets, and wanting to repaint the inside of the instrument cluster case, I decided to pull it apart.  I think I had already seen Don Coatney's photos before that.  I haven't searched for them on the site, but it's possible that his photos are no longer there.  (He had his photos hosted elsewhere, and just linked to them here.  I don't know if you've read much of his comments on the forum, but he passed away already some years ago, and then those links were lost.  If his photos are not available anymore, I do have copies.  At some point I realized that many of the things I thought would always be available, as long as the internet lasts have disappeared - entire websites, while the real trash on the internet seems to survive forever.  So I started making copies.)  I'll see if I can find my own photos - I suspect now they are on another older computer I have here.

 

The most complicated gasket was originally cork, and I have some sheets of that. I have done business with a company that has a laser, and I want to have them do a test, to see if they can cut cork w/o it burning.  The gasket between the front bezel and the glass is some sort of heavy cardboard (not corrugated cardboard, more like heavy card stock.)

 

Might be a market for those gaskets if you can figure out how to do them reasonably.

[Eneto-55]

I finally found my own photos, but I cannot tell for sure if I bent any tabs back, or not.  I will need to look at the actual parts tomorrow.  (All of that is up the street in a rented space.)

I also found the CAD files for the main cluster gasket, but I don't have the program installed on this computer.  I started by trying to piece the different fragments together, then scanning them.  After reconstructing it as best I could, I drew in the missing areas, then cut out a printed copy to compare to the instrument cluster housing.  I should have gotten a better CAD program, but after a long time, I was able to get it into a 2D drawing.  

 

I was going to do the laser test right away, but then tried to think of what other gaskets I could drop into the center of the gasket - to do as many different gaskets in a single 'burn'.  As I have sometimes said, "My work gets in the way of my hobby."  (And now we are remodeling my wife's parents' old house, to eventually move there, where I will have room to build a shop.  The house has conventional framed roof - ridge board & rafters, and we wanted to take out some weight-bearing walls, so I've been building overhead beams in the attic, from which to suspend the ceiling.  That's all done now, and I knocked out the walls, and nothing has fallen or sagged yet.... I probably have actually over-built it, but that way I figure I'm safe. Anyway, it's also keeping me from working on my P15.)

[Ivan_B]

4 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

I have done business with a company that has a laser, and I want to have them do a test, to see if they can cut cork w/o it burning.

This sounds like a bit of an overkill. A razor knife should be all you need for a DIY project like this.

 

A little off-topic: I, once, refreshed a 60s motorcycle speedometer. That one was a bit complicated because the frame/bezel holding the glass was sealed to the metal can with the mechanism, like those old-school kitchen cans with metal caps. So I had to carefully cut the bezel lip all the way around with a dremel, leaving some "tabs", so that I can assemble the whole thing back together later on.

[vintage6t]

6 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

This sounds like a bit of an overkill. A razor knife

 

Agree, very simple to cut out with a razor.

 

If you want to get high-tech you can cut thecgaskey on a Cricut Maker machine. Search google to see people making gaskets on a Cricut.  Either way I'd use regular automotive gasket material of the correct thickness.

 

A bit off topic but here's a stencil I made on a Cricut for a custom gauge face.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by vintage6t

[Eneto-55]

7 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

This sounds like a bit of an overkill. A razor knife should be all you need for a DIY project like this.

re: having the gasket laser cut:

Yes, I suppose so, but this one is pretty complex, and would require quite a bit of time to do that way. (Of course I spent a whole bucket load of time designing it, more time than it would have required to cut one out by hand.  I didn't anticipate how long it would take, and I'm a stubborn person....)

 

Actually, a person could also just use some silicone caulk, and then lay a film of thin plastic over it to smooth it to a consistent thickness before assembly. (So it doesn't stick so hard that the gauges cannot be removed later w/o destroying it.)

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, vintage6t said:

 

Agree, very simple to cut out with a razor.

 

If you want to get high-tech you can cut thecgaskey on a Cricut Maker machine. Search google to see people making gaskets on a Cricut.  Either way I'd use regular automotive gasket material of the correct thickness.

I had not ever heard of this type of machine.  Just now watched a short video demonstration.  But as far as lasers are concerned, a guy I know bought a small laser (as I recall, the bed on his is about 16" square) that would run in the same price range. 

 

I don't know, however, what the comparable thickness capability would be between the two options.  The gasket that I was referring to is fairly thick cork material, and I wonder if this machine could do thick stuff like that.  (I should measure the thickness of the old one.)  I suppose thinner material would do just as well, but just curious - the video I saw didn't really show what prevents the material from being pushed out of position during the cutting process. 

 

How did they do it "back then"?  Was this sort of thing cut out on a stamping machine, with full-size dies?

[Ivan_B]

3 hours ago, vintage6t said:

A bit off topic but here's a stencil I made on a Cricut for a custom gauge face.

That's neat, except that the edges appear to be a bit blurry (or is the picture off focus)? I don't think they sprayed the original dials at the factory, did they? Probably a rolled-on or hand-painted? There are several techniques to restore these, people use. I've seen some good results with decals, too.

[vintage6t]

3 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

 

I don't know, however, what the comparable thickness capability would be between the two options.  The gasket that I was referring to is fairly thick cork material, and I wonder if this machine could do thick stuff like that.  (I should measure the thickness of the old one.)  I suppose thinner material would do just as well, but just curious - the video I saw didn't really show what prevents the material from being pushed out of position during the cutting process. 

 

I actually don't own one. I borrowed one from a friend who uses it for crafting. Definitely can't justify the cost of new for a project or two but used ones come up for sale all the time.

 

The work piece is held to the bed with a sticky mat. The Maker model will cut up to 2.4mm or 3/32". It will cut metal and leather with the correct tooling.  I don't think cutting a gasket, even a thick one, is much of a problem.

[vintage6t]

2 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

That's neat, except that the edges appear to be a bit blurry (or is the picture off focus)? I don't think they sprayed the original dials at the factory, did they?

Picture is out of focus. However the small size of some of the gauge markings was definitely pushing the limits of the machine in terms of cutting resolution.

 

I think the factory probably silk screened the original. In terms of trying to match, it is more about the result than the method. Spraying is easy, adding a luminescent coating on top to make the letters glow like the originals was a tedious task in hand painting and definitely effected the sharpness of the markings.

 

Anyway for me results are acceptable. Here's another picture with a set of dirty old original gauges. The color looks off but it's really not when next to the NOS gauges that it will be grouped with.

 

Sorry for high jacking this thread!

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by vintage6t

[TodFitch]

7 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

How did they do it "back then"?  Was this sort of thing cut out on a stamping machine, with full-size dies?

I suspect that they were die cut. The fellow that had a shop behind the one my Mom owned did lots of screen printing and die cutting. If I recall correctly, he used a plywood board that he somehow embedded thin strips of metal to make shaped blades. Those were put into a press that looked a lot like an older letterpress printing machine. Drop a piece of cardboard into the holders on the machine, cycle it so the blade(s) on the plywood tool were pressed into the cardboard and Bob’s your uncle, the whole piece was cut into the final shape in one operation.

[Ivan_B]

6 hours ago, vintage6t said:

Picture is out of focus.

That's a great job, then.

6 hours ago, vintage6t said:

Sorry for high jacking this thread!

Does not count, we are still talking about gauges. An you never know, inspired by all this talk of great marksmanship, the next thing you know, the topic starter will be re-doing dials mixing radium into his own custom paint ?

Edited December 5, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Bob Ritter]

Let us be honest that instrument panel is a mess and nothing you do to it is going to help. I would suggest finding another one and out of the two make one nice one, they are not hard to find. Every time you sit behind the wheel your going to be looking at the instrument panel. They are pretty simple to restore and you would be surprised how good they look when your done. I can help with the rebuilt have some pictures.

[Sniper]

I upgraded my gauge setup to an aftermarket bezel and autometer gauges.  Might be something to think about

 

https://boeseengineering.com/product-category/plymouth-gauge-panels/1946-1948-plymouth-car-gauge-panels/

[rcl700]

I was able to get mine cleaned up. I do need to oil the speedo while it's on the bench. Is there a cap I need to pill out with a pick? 

[Cannuck]

Wow what a difference . The odometer is ready to roll over soon.

I think the Plymouth has the nicest cluster .

.

[Eneto-55]

52 minutes ago, Cannuck said:

Wow what a difference . The odometer is ready to roll over soon.

I think the Plymouth has the nicest cluster .

.

Yeah, and it's around 3,600 miles ahead of mine!

[desoto1939]

how about this art deco speedometer with the original bakalite insert for a 1939 Desoto. this is my spare unit and I still have the original in better shape in the car.

 

and the second picture is of the glovebox lid. The center section is where the clock would be inserted.  This is also a backup to the one inthe car.

 

in the third picture you can see the fine lines and details that make up the spacing between each guage.

 

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com