Alternator install help

[38plymouth]

I just installed a 6 volt positive ground alternator in my 38 Plymouth p6. If it matters this car has the push button start on the firewall. According to the directions I needed to unhook the arm and FLD terminals on the regulator and then run a single wire from the alternator to the other pin on the regulator. I did that and now my push button start doesn't do anything. I'm not sure what I did wrong and could use some help. I'm going to attach a few pictures if I can the red wire is the one I ran to the alternator to the regulator. I will be changing that to Black tomorrow but that's all I had for now. You can also see where I disconnected the other two wires.

[oldodge41]

Any possibility you blew a fuse somewhere! I would start by checking for voltage at the starter switch.

[Sam Buchanan]

That appears to be a fuse on the relay below the regulator. Is that a starter relay? I'm not familiar with the P6 wiring.

[wagoneer]

A couple of things to check: make sure your starter solenoid is grounded. In my Chrysler the top left has a nominally brown ground between the solenoid and the alternator. That was critical in my circuit for getting the circuit to close properly and the starter to engage.

looking at the provided diagram the alternators a ground anyway but I was assuming through the block . Didn’t work for me until I connected mine.

 

Incidentally, I completely bypassed my regulator and directly connected the ammeter to my alternator for a firmer connection.

 

 

[wagoneer]

@38 plymouth  An alternator question back to you though-

 

1) what did you do regarding g a new belt? Were you able to find a sufficiently right-sized  one that you were able to add it AND tension it easily ? 
 

I had real trouble with getting the tension right on the belt connectivity on the bracketry that was provided to sit in the original generator location.

 

2. my belt also doesn’t sit all the way into the pulley groove like the water pump pulley?

 

werr you able to use stock belt?

Edited January 31, 2023 by wagoneer

[38plymouth]

Disregard, I called the company and verified everything was wired correctly and it was. While on the phone with him troubleshooting I decided to pull the fuse for the ammeter thinking maybe it blew. It was completely fine and I put it back in and decided to try the starter button again and it worked. What a huge difference in how bright the lights are and how fast the fan runs compared to the original generator. This might be the best upgrade I've ever done on the car. The only issue I have is the alternator seems to whistle at idle. I'm not sure if it maybe is a belt alignment issue or maybe needs a new belt. I still need to troubleshoot that.

[Booger]

interesting topic. Im thinking of going this route some day. Makes good sense. Put 5 stars on this one

[Kilgore47]

When I first installed the alternator on the p15 it made a similar noise at low rpm.  Called the alternator vendor and they said that it may be that the battery was low and the alternator was working extra hard.  Couldn't find anything wrong so I decided to just drive it for a while and see what happened.  The noise went away.  It wasn't the battery being low because the battery has been low since then and it didn't make that noise again.  Maybe the belt needed to wear in. 

[DonaldSmith]

A vee belt is not supposed to sit all the way into the pulley.  That would put only the bottom of the belt in firm contact.  The belt is supposed to ride with the sloping sides against the sloping sides of the pulley.   Twice the contact area, plus a wedging action.  

 

Maybe the pulley is wrong or the belt is worn.  

[DJK]

14 hours ago, 38plymouth said:

Disregard, I called the company and verified everything was wired correctly and it was. While on the phone with him troubleshooting I decided to pull the fuse for the ammeter thinking maybe it blew. It was completely fine and I put it back in and decided to try the starter button again and it worked. What a huge difference in how bright the lights are and how fast the fan runs compared to the original generator. This might be the best upgrade I've ever done on the car. The only issue I have is the alternator seems to whistle at idle. I'm not sure if it maybe is a belt alignment issue or maybe needs a new belt. I still need to troubleshoot that.

If I remember correctly, mine would whine slightly at first, also depends on the charge state of the battery.

[DJK]

15 hours ago, wagoneer said:

@38 plymouth  An alternator question back to you though-

 

1) what did you do regarding g a new belt? Were you able to find a sufficiently right-sized  one that you were able to add it AND tension it easily ? 
 

I had real trouble with getting the tension right on the belt connectivity on the bracketry that was provided to sit in the original generator location.

 

2. my belt also doesn’t sit all the way into the pulley groove like the water pump pulley?

 

werr you able to use stock belt?

The alternator from Bill Howard Enterprise, you are able to select the proper width of the pulley for your stock belt.

[38plymouth]

I got mine from Bill Howard.  He is a very nice guy and super helpful. I called him once because I was having an alignment issue and thought I was going to have an interference with the fan blade but I was able to adjust that. Then I called him a second time when I couldn't get the car to start he seems to know his stuff. 

[Bryan G]

I switched to a 6v alternator last year while I was working on getting my generator patched up. I plan on switching back for originality, but I'll admit it's a tough decision. A lot to like with the alternator. Mine whined pretty bad at first, and I'll notice it from time to time. It's the rectifying circuitry, from what I understand. With the quiet exhaust on my car it can actually be louder than the engine! Funny (to me), I had an old Impala and what I always thought was the sound of that 283 was actually the alternator. I know that because my Chrysler sounds the same. 

[38plymouth]

I drove it about 2 miles yesterday and the whine noise did quiet down a lot. It does appear to be caused by how much power its putting out. If I turn on everything it's gets a little louder. Looking forward to a long evening drive with bright lights.

[Sam Buchanan]

Maybe the alternator is having to work hard because the battery has lost a lot of its capacity??

 

I've never noticed any noise from the alternator on my P15, the battery stays fully charged all the time.

[38plymouth]

6 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Maybe the alternator is having to work hard because the battery has lost a lot of its capacity??

 

I've never noticed any noise from the alternator on my P15, the battery stays fully charged all the time.

It could be, it's 3 years old and the car sits for long periods of time. It tests good though. I just haven't driven it long enough to let it fully charge. I'm hoping to take it for a long drive when it cools off this weekend. 

[Sam Buchanan]

25 minutes ago, 38plymouth said:

I'm hoping to take it for a long drive when it cools off this weekend. 

 

Oh boy....that hurt a bunch of us!    Brrrrrrrrrrrr.......

[Veemoney]

I installed a 6v Howards negative ground alternator about 8 years ago. Ran quiet from the beginning and still going strong.

 

The other night while pulling trees my old skidsteer started making a hell of a noise as I would rev it up. Sounded like the hydro pump was cavitating but the oil level was was fine when I looked. Check the alternator belt next by checking deflection and it was tight so I loosened the belt next and when I fired it up the noise was gone. I pulled the alternator and serviced it but it was fine so before I went to install it I checked all the pulleys and the belt. The width of the belt measured fine but it did seem the pullies had worn enough that the belt was riding down on the bottom of the pullies rather than the at the V so I purchased a slightly wider belt and it runs quiet again. Had I not been working outside in the dark and cold I might of caught the real issue sooner but at least I got some new grease in the bearings along with the belt so maybe I'm good for another 25 years on that one.

 

What I can say is the noise being made by the belt did not sound like any belt whine I ever heard and what a racket it was making when reving it up to normal operating RPM. The belt used is a notched belt so I assume those notches were singing as they slipped across the bottom of the pulleys.

[38plymouth]

16 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Oh boy....that hurt a bunch of us!    Brrrrrrrrrrrr.......

I bet my relatives in New York just texted me that it's six degrees. It's been in the mid 80s here all week and supposed to cool off into the 70s today through the weekend there is a reason why I moved to Florida. Of course in the summer when it's way too hot to drive a black car without air conditioning you guys in the north will be enjoying your cars.

[38plymouth]

Just a little update on the 6 volt alternator install. I would highly recommend it to anybody whether you have a generator that still works or need to replace it. All the lights and everything just works so much better on the car. I took it on its longest drive today since I did the install and drove probably 45 minutes and this is weird for me to say but I swear the car just runs better. It seems like it idles better has better power and it's smoother I don't know if it could have something to do with maybe a better spark or what. I know it definitely starts faster. I think this is easily the best thing I have ever done to the car.

[D35 Torpedo]

20 hours ago, 38plymouth said:

Just a little update on the 6 volt alternator install. I would highly recommend it to anybody whether you have a generator that still works or need to replace it. All the lights and everything just works so much better on the car. I took it on its longest drive today since I did the install and drove probably 45 minutes and this is weird for me to say but I swear the car just runs better. It seems like it idles better has better power and it's smoother I don't know if it could have something to do with maybe a better spark or what. I know it definitely starts faster. I think this is easily the best thing I have ever done to the car.

How many amp?

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, D35 Torpedo said:

How many amp?

 

My alternator is 60a but that is really a moot point unless pulling a huge load like AC and/or electric fans. The alternator will only output the amperage the battery will absorb to accommodate the load in the system. Even after a cold start I've never seen my ammeter go past 15a for more than a few seconds as it recharges the battery. With all lights on it seems the total load is <10a once the battery is replenished after a start.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[D35 Torpedo]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

My alternator is 60a but that is really a moot point unless pulling a huge load like AC and/or electric fans. The alternator will only output the amperage the battery will absorb to accommodate the load in the system. Even after a cold start I've never seen my ammeter go past 15a for more than a few seconds as it recharges the battery. With all lights on it seems the total load is <10a once the battery is replenished after a start.

I doubt you are getting a proper reading. And I bet it's putting out a higher voltage than your generator was producing. Hence the brighter lights. With my 50 watt headlights on, tail lights and dash lights, as well as the blower motor on full, the ammeter will tickle 40 amps. That makes sense. 100 watts ÷ 6.7v equals 15 amps alone. Running voltage fluctuates with rpm, so i chose 6.7v for easy math. Tail lights and gauge lights probably consume 5 amps. Then the blower motor at 10 amps. Then we have to factor in a smidge for the ignition system, fuel gauge and line losses. The battery is putting out 30-35 amps and the gen is putting out close to 40 to keep up. I have a generator and it works fine. Headlights are as bright as 12 volt lights. But, I replaced ever wire with the next size up. Soldered ever terminal and added extra grounds. Old wires and connections will soak up a lot of current. An alternator can overcome those losses by working harder. The reason for dim lights isn't the generator, but the rest of the system.

[Sam Buchanan]

4 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

I doubt you are getting a proper reading. And I bet it's putting out a higher voltage than your generator was producing. Hence the brighter lights. With my 50 watt headlights on, tail lights and dash lights, as well as the blower motor on full, the ammeter will tickle 40 amps. That makes sense. 100 watts ÷ 6.7v equals 15 amps alone. Running voltage fluctuates with rpm, so i chose 6.7v for easy math. Tail lights and gauge lights probably consume 5 amps. Then the blower motor at 10 amps. Then we have to factor in a smidge for the ignition system, fuel gauge and line losses. The battery is putting out 30-35 amps and the gen is putting out close to 40 to keep up. I have a generator and it works fine. Headlights are as bright as 12 volt lights. But, I replaced ever wire with the next size up. Soldered ever terminal and added extra grounds. Old wires and connections will soak up a lot of current. An alternator can overcome those losses by working harder. The reason for dim lights isn't the generator, but the rest of the system.

 

Let's clear up one item up front. It is obvious that you are very pleased with the generator system on your Plymouth and that is fantastic. I'm happy for you. 

 

I am also pleased with the alternator charging system on my P15. That is also fantastic, but it seems you are not so happy for me.   

 

Yes, my alternator definitely puts out more voltage than the old generator because it was......DEAD, even after two regulators!  ?

 

The alternator under light load puts out 7.5v at idle, with all lights that drops all the way down to......7.2v at idle. In regard to the ammeter in my car, here is what it looks like when idling with lights on.

 

 

 

I haven't verified the accuracy of the ammeter, don't really care to since I place much more value on the verified voltmeter. The highest I've seen the ammeter after a cold start is an indicated 20a for less than 30 seconds as it declines to about 10a for a few minutes then back down to what you see above. I've never calculated total load on the system, never seen the need to since everything seems happy and the battery stays hot.

 

The wiring in my car has received considerable attention and new grounds have been established on the head and taillights. The lights are bright, don't dim at idle.....and I like them. The wiring and alternator have been perfectly reliable since I returned the car to service three years ago after extensive shop time.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[38plymouth]

9 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

How many amp?

60 amps. And there is no way a stock generator is powering 6 volt lights as bright as 12 volt. My generator worked fine but a bearing started making noise. I personally cleaned every connection in the system before adding the alternator and it is still a night and day difference. At idle or low rpms with the lights on and fog lights on they were very dim until you increased the rpms. With the alternator they are the same at idle as they are at all rpms. And they are brighter. This swap is a no Brainerd if you actually drive the car.